C Alex Galchenyuk - Sarnia Sting, OHL (2012 draft)

[HanSolo]

I hate it when people say Galchenyuk was neck and neck with Yakupov for #1 overall before he got injured. This is incorrect. While Galchenyuk was always an elite prospect, Yakupov has been the consensus #1 overall selection for more than 2 years now! It is more than logical to assume that Yak and Murray will go 1,2, no matter on what the team selecting them is. After that, it gets more tricky. Less and less people are flattered by Grigorenko. Might be possible for him to have a similar drop out of the top 5 a la Couturier last year.

Galchenyuk will go anywhere from 3-5 though, most likely depending on Mtl's assessment of him.

You were running strong until the part I bolded.

Martin Frk was considered a favorite for first overall until Nail broke out.

 

[InfinityIggy]

You were running strong until the part I bolded.

Martin Frk was considered a favorite for first overall until Nail broke out.

I remember that, crazy how far he has fallen.

 

[Frattin23]

You were running strong until the part I bolded.

Martin Frk was considered a favorite for first overall until Nail broke out.

Exaggeration on my part. You are right. (LOL I remember that, always wondered how to pronounce his name). I should have said that he's been the consensus number 1 pick for about a year now, which would have been more accurate.

But my point remains valid. I just can't see how there is an argument on Yakupov's position. He's clearly #1 in this draft

Btw, must be killing you that the Kings are running away with their series

 

[Xokkeu]

In that case Galchenyuk would be able to represent USA. The ruling in question only applies to players with multiple citizenships.

In terms of promoting the sport..I like the ruling. If a player chooses to represent a country over another, it ensures that the chosen country must have a minimal hand in developing the player during his crucial developmental years.

Ha, whoops my bad on that one.

It'll be interesting to see what he does if he's really ineligible for the US. If he really has no desire to play for the Russian team, or if that was just a draft strategy that once he's drafted and signed he'll just forget about.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

The point is, the Canadiens almost certainly have a channel of information that other teams scouts don't have. It's hard to believe that Roy doesn't tell Timmins more than he tells everyone else.

And that could actually hurt the chances of Grigorenko being drafted by the Habs if Roy gives more info about him to Timmins than anyone else. Roy is obviously very positive about Grigorenko when talking to the media, but who knows if it's the same behind closed doors? I can't imagine Grigorenko's average playoff run has his head coach super thrilled right now.

I don't think anyone really thinks it's automatic (nothing in this draft is).

Wouldn't you say, though, that it's more likely for Grigorenko to be coveted by MTL, if Roy's the coach? Of course it's not a slam dunk, but I would think that everything else being equal, Roy would lean to Mikhail.

I think too many Habs fans around here (not directed at you, just an observation on this forum), have jumped to some conclusions about the Habs 'not liking' Grigorenko. I personally think if they were to get Roy as the Coach (even if not), Grigorenko could be a perfect fit as their future 1C. They just need to get a good compete level out of him.

At the end of the day, if he's hired, Roy's knowledge of this year's crop is limited to 1 league. The decision should be fully in the hands of Timmins and his staff. Roy should have absolutely no say on the ''final decision'', it would be stupid considering his potential bias.

 

[JawandaPuck]

But would it be different if Galchenyuk played for an American OHL team?

As far as I know, the CHL isn't considered a 'national competition' of the US; nor is the CHL sanctioned by USA Hockey.


Here's the IIHF statute:

What a shame -- Galy was certainly looking forward to playing at the WJC U18 for Team USA...

"...I think going there (2011 Ivan Hlinka Tournament) and playing for USA was definitely the highlight of my summer. It was the first time I played internationally and I loved it. I got a chance to meet and be friends with a lot of great guys from the team and the whole coaching staff and USA Hockey organization. It was amazing.

It was a great overall experience, even though going through some things was tough -- like when I played against Russia and my skateblade broke after the first period, I had to try playing in different skates and then finished the game playing in my coach's skates

I really hope I get called up to play for Team USA again and I will try to do much better next time."​

 

[Xokkeu]

What a shame -- Galy was certainly looking forward to playing at the WJC U18 for Team USA...

"...I think going there (2011 Ivan Hlinka Tournament) and playing for USA was definitely the highlight of my summer. It was the first time I played internationally and I loved it. I got a chance to meet and be friends with a lot of great guys from the team and the whole coaching staff and USA Hockey organization. It was amazing.

It was a great overall experience, even though going through some things was tough -- like when I played against Russia and my skateblade broke after the first period, I had to try playing in different skates and then finished the game playing in my coach's skates

I really hope I get called up to play for Team USA again and I will try to do much better next time."​

You want the really sad part? If Galchenyuk really ends up being ineligible, he could have avoided this by two things. If the US took players from outside the NDTP to the U18s or if he was healthy enough to make the U20s this year.

Since the IIHF only started enforcing this rule randomly two weeks ago, he would have already gotten in under the curtain like Colin Wilson.

 

[Zine]

What a shame -- Galy was certainly looking forward to playing at the WJC U18 for Team USA...

"...I think going there (2011 Ivan Hlinka Tournament) and playing for USA was definitely the highlight of my summer. It was the first time I played internationally and I loved it. I got a chance to meet and be friends with a lot of great guys from the team and the whole coaching staff and USA Hockey organization. It was amazing.

It was a great overall experience, even though going through some things was tough -- like when I played against Russia and my skateblade broke after the first period, I had to try playing in different skates and then finished the game playing in my coach's skates

I really hope I get called up to play for Team USA again and I will try to do much better next time."​

Yeah on a personal level it's a bit unfair for Galchenyuk....but, from a hockey standpoint, its also unfair that USA benefits from a player they really didn't do much to develop (which is what IIHF seems concerned about - hockey).

 

[Crede777]

And that could actually hurt the chances of Grigorenko being drafted by the Habs if Roy gives more info about him to Timmins than anyone else. Roy is obviously very positive about Grigorenko when talking to the media, but who knows if it's the same behind closed doors? I can't imagine Grigorenko's average playoff run has his head coach super thrilled right now.

I agree. My original post was going to say something along the lines of "Grigorenko SHOULD be near the top for the Habs and if he isn't, that says something." But I decided that was a bit unsubstantiated.

 

[Zine]

You want the really sad part? If Galchenyuk really ends up being ineligible, he could have avoided this by two things. If the US took players from outside the NDTP to the U18s or if he was healthy enough to make the U20s this year.

Since the IIHF only started enforcing this rule randomly two weeks ago, he would have already gotten in under the curtain like Colin Wilson.

Its something IIHF started enforcing more than 2 weeks ago. Russia lost Podzins for the U20 WJC.
But, yeah, the "under age 10 does not count" rule is in full effect. Hungary just lost a player for the U18 div I because of it.....though its strange because I can't find it anywhere in the IIHF rules.

 

[Slitty]

Its something IIHF started enforcing more than 2 weeks ago. Russia lost Podzins for the U20 WJC.
But, yeah, the "under age 10 does not count" rule is in full effect. Hungary just lost a player for the U18 div I because of it.....though its strange because I can't find it anywhere in the IIHF rules.

Different issue there, he was developed in Russia.

 

[gwolpert]

History of knee injuries?

Hey all,

first time poster.

Just wondering if anyone has information on other prospects/NHLers that have gone through significant knee injuries like Gally's and been out for 5+ months.

I'd be interested in seeing if any player's playing style/scoring pace/overall trajectory changed post injury, and/or whether they experienced any other chronic injuries that might be related to the knee. Just want to be better informed about whether a significant knee injury - even if fully healed/rehabbed - tends to come back to bite a player.

Obviously surgeries and rehab have changed since the Bobby Orr era, but surely players aren't literally as good as new once they've had a knee surgically repaired...Are they?

Cheers

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I've put together a list of players who had a torn ACL, with their age when the injury happened indicated:

Recovered nicely and went on to re-find his form or become a quality player

Evgeni Malkin (Age 24)
Niklas Kronwall (Age 24)
Justin Williams (Tore his left ACL twice – age 21 and age 26)
Johan Franzen (Age 29)
James Wisniewski (Tore his right ACL three times – age 18, age 23, age 24)
Josh Gorges (Age 18 – played with it for 8 years)
Jared Cowen (Age 18)
François Beauchemin (Age 28)
Milan Michalek (tore right ACL at age 18 and tore his left ACL at age 25)
Erik Johnson (Age 20 – although you could argue he was better as a rookie than now)
Josh Harding (Age 26)
Dany Heatley (Age 22)
Marian Hossa (Age 19)
Todd Bertuzzi (Age 24)
Jeremy Roenick (Age 25)
Michal Handzus (Age 29 - had 2 more good years)
Daniel Alfredsson (Age 35 – not 100% sure this was a total tear though)
Pavel Bure (Age 24)
Andrew Brunette (Age 35 – 2 more solid years after)

Decline after the injury but still solid or good

Saku Koivu (Age 22 - was leading league in scoring, still a real good player after)
Michael Peca (Age 28)

Major decline after the injury

Alex Kovalev (Age 37 - was close to done anyway)
Marco Sturm (Age 31 – was already on the decline when he suffered it)
Brenden Morrow (Age 29)
Marek Svatos (Age 25 - already on the decline when he suffered it)
Derian Hatcher (Age 31 – the new NHL basically killed his career)
Scottie Upshall (Age 26 - was having nice 2009-10 before injury, not the same since)
Brendan Morrison (Age 32 - was already on the decline)


To be determined

Andrei Markov (Age 31 - unique case with 2 torn ACLs in a 6 month span, was starting to look his old self as the season ended)


Hossa, Michalek, Cowen, Wisniewski and Gorges were considered prospects when they were injured.

In short, the success ratio for players 25 and under coming back from a torn ACL and being a quality player again is EXTREMELY good.

 

[Macch]

I've put together a list of players who had a torn ACL, with their age when the injury happened indicated:

Recovered nicely and went on to re-find his form or become a quality player

Evgeni Malkin (Age 24)
Niklas Kronwall (Age 24)
Justin Williams (Tore his left ACL twice – age 21 and age 26)
Johan Franzen (Age 29)
James Wisniewski (Tore his right ACL three times – age 18, age 23, age 24)
Josh Gorges (Age 18 – played with it for 8 years)
Jared Cowen (Age 18)
François Beauchemin (Age 28)
Milan Michalek (tore right ACL at age 18 and tore his left ACL at age 25)
Erik Johnson (Age 20 – although you could argue he was better as a rookie than now)
Josh Harding (Age 26)
Dany Heatley (Age 22)
Marian Hossa (Age 19)
Todd Bertuzzi (Age 24)
Jeremy Roenick (Age 25)
Michal Handzus (Age 29 - had 2 more good years)
Daniel Alfredsson (Age 35 – not 100% sure this was a total tear though)
Pavel Bure (Age 24)
Andrew Brunette (Age 35 – 2 more solid years after)

Decline after the injury but still solid or good

Saku Koivu (Age 22 - was leading league in scoring, still a real good player after)
Michael Peca (Age 28)

Major decline after the injury

Alex Kovalev (Age 37 - was close to done anyway)
Marco Sturm (Age 31 – was already on the decline when he suffered it)
Brenden Morrow (Age 29)
Marek Svatos (Age 25 - already on the decline when he suffered it)
Derian Hatcher (Age 31 – the new NHL basically killed his career)
Scottie Upshall (Age 26 - was having nice 2009-10 before injury, not the same since)
Brendan Morrison (Age 32 - was already on the decline)


To be determined

Andrei Markov (Age 31 - unique case with 2 torn ACLs in a 6 month span, was starting to look his old self as the season ended)


Hossa, Michalek, Cowen, Wisniewski and Gorges were considered prospects when they were injured.

In short, the success ratio for players 25 and under coming back from a torn ACL and being a quality player again is EXTREMELY good.

Nice list, as an Isles fan I can tell you that Peca should be under major decline. You can argue he was serviceable but he was no where near the player he was before he got hurt. Such a shame too. ****ing Tucker

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Yeah, I thought of putting him there, but I felt he still had some good moments afterwards. 42 points and 40 points in the next 2 seasons in the dead puck era and played a decent role in EDM's cup run in 2006.

 

[gwolpert]

I've put together a list of players who had a torn ACL, with their age when the injury happened indicated:

Recovered nicely and went on to re-find his form or become a quality player

Evgeni Malkin (Age 24)
Niklas Kronwall (Age 24)
Justin Williams (Tore his left ACL twice – age 21 and age 26)
Johan Franzen (Age 29)
James Wisniewski (Tore his right ACL three times – age 18, age 23, age 24)
Josh Gorges (Age 18 – played with it for 8 years)
Jared Cowen (Age 18)
François Beauchemin (Age 28)
Milan Michalek (tore right ACL at age 18 and tore his left ACL at age 25)
Erik Johnson (Age 20 – although you could argue he was better as a rookie than now)
Josh Harding (Age 26)
Dany Heatley (Age 22)
Marian Hossa (Age 19)
Todd Bertuzzi (Age 24)
Jeremy Roenick (Age 25)
Michal Handzus (Age 29 - had 2 more good years)
Daniel Alfredsson (Age 35 – not 100% sure this was a total tear though)
Pavel Bure (Age 24)
Andrew Brunette (Age 35 – 2 more solid years after)

Decline after the injury but still solid or good

Saku Koivu (Age 22 - was leading league in scoring, still a real good player after)
Michael Peca (Age 28)

Major decline after the injury

Alex Kovalev (Age 37 - was close to done anyway)
Marco Sturm (Age 31 – was already on the decline when he suffered it)
Brenden Morrow (Age 29)
Marek Svatos (Age 25 - already on the decline when he suffered it)
Derian Hatcher (Age 31 – the new NHL basically killed his career)
Scottie Upshall (Age 26 - was having nice 2009-10 before injury, not the same since)
Brendan Morrison (Age 32 - was already on the decline)


To be determined

Andrei Markov (Age 31 - unique case with 2 torn ACLs in a 6 month span, was starting to look his old self as the season ended)


Hossa, Michalek, Cowen, Wisniewski and Gorges were considered prospects when they were injured.

In short, the success ratio for players 25 and under coming back from a torn ACL and being a quality player again is EXTREMELY good.

Thanks Marc! That was sort of what I thought, but didn't have any facts to back it up.
Funny to find Hossa - someone Galchenyuk's been compared to - on this list. Allegiances aside, seems hard to imagine Gally dropping in the draft due to health concerns.

 

[Crede777]

I've put together a list of players who had a torn ACL, with their age when the injury happened indicated:

Great work. Small sample size, but that's what you were given.

Would player size factor into recovery from an ACL tear? Galchenyuk is a medium sized kid and a lot of the players listed are 6'3" or larger.

 

[R S]

Thanks for the list.

Would be interested to see players that were considered prospects that suffered the injury and never ended up making it for one reason or another.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Yeah great work Marc! Thanks for sharing, that list really does quell any uneasyness I had about him (not much really, but a little yeah)...

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Thanks for the list.

Would be interested to see players that were considered prospects that suffered the injury and never ended up making it for one reason or another.

Angelo Esposito would be one, but the question can obviously be asked if he would have made the show and been a decent player had he been healthy.

 

[Ferjo]

Fully aware that medicine has come along way with things like these in the last 20 years, but drake berehowsky entered is draft year rated in the top five before he tore up his knee and played ten games all year.

About ten years later his knee tore again and hardly played in the four years following.

Projected a complete package with mobility, skill, physical play,. Ended up bouncing around crappy teams most of his career as a bottom pairing plug.

 

[Sartorial]

You were running strong until the part I bolded.

Martin Frk was considered a favorite for first overall until Nail broke out.

Wow I had no idea! What happen? Why the fall?

 

[Xokkeu]

Wow I had no idea! What happen? Why the fall?

Concussions and he hasn't played well.

 

[R S]

Angelo Esposito would be one, but the question can obviously be asked if he would have made the show and been a decent player had he been healthy.

Yeah, those are the types of scenarios I would be interested in hearing about.

It would be one thing if Galch was a full grown pro when the injury happened, or even like 20 years old and more established. He's still a young kid with now a year less of experience.

He's got some question marks.

With all that being said I have him as a legit top 4 player in regards to overall potential.

 

[R S]

You were running strong until the part I bolded.

Martin Frk was considered a favorite for first overall until Nail broke out.

To be fair, those thoughts were floating around early in the 2010-2011 season. He faded all last year, too.