Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

[Darth Vitale]

Has anyone seen part 4 of the new 'In the Room' episode? Bylsma is talking about trimming the roster. I think he misspeaks some, but he blatantly shows how little trust he has in prospects learning and developing in the NHL.

I didn't read as much into the Megna and Bennett comments because he prefaced them with "they can both be sent down without going through waivers". I don't disagree he has a problem dealing with rookies but there I think it was strictly business.

What was more troubling to me was watching him prior to the Black & White game. He was standing there rattling off his usual cliches but the players seemed disinterested. I mean they should've been really excited and happy even if just a pre-season scrimmage, given the lockout and proximity to starting the season. It was dead in there. Crickets.

 

[The Tang]

I voted 15 because I think that's about the window he has, but yah, probably last summer was the right time.

Just watched those In The Room episodes... watch his little speech before the Black and White game. I don't know if that's the way he always is (suspect so), but there's just nothing there. He i a string of monotone cliches and feel-good phrases in there. Maybe on the ice in practice he can connect with the guys, but the room seemed dead.

I remember an article last year where after a string of losses or blowout, it said Bylsma got angry at the next practice, which was unusual for him. It may be he's become too friendly, like a parent that wants to be his kid's friend and not his parent, which is never good.

 

[Shockmaster]

This is kind of funny:

Colin Dunlap ‏@colin_dunlap

Everything is relative. Pens .500 Yinzers say "FAHR THE COACH." Steelers .500 Yinzers say "FAHR THE COACH." Pirates .500 "Have a parade."

 

[mpp9]

Voted 30 for the hell of it as I think if it happens it will be around desperation time.

No point in changing the coach at that point.

 

[Al Smith]

He'll keep them close enough to make the playoffs and get bounced early. That will be the likely time.

Pens aren't much better than a .500 team, IMO. Offense (loss of Staal) and Defense (loss of Michalek) have hurt Pens, as well as having too many players past their peak and falling quickly (Kunitz, Orpik, Cooke, Dupuis, Martin(?)). Still I'd much rather be watching a mediocre Pens team play anyone in hockey than watching MLS or NBA games.

 

[Sam Spade]

I voted after another playoff let down, but honestly I doubt he is going anywhere. That Cup win buys you a ton of good will with everyone in the organization.

Even though I don't think he had much, beyond just not yelling so much, to do with them winning in '09.

Due to this shortened season, I would be surprised if ANY coach gets canned during the season.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I don't want to waste another prime year of sid and geno. And that's what this year will be if he's still here.

We won the cup in 09 and have had extremely early exits 3 straight years since...including being up 3-1 on TB and collapsing. The guy gets outcoached, and that's his only job...to coach, not be a best friend. You can be likable without being buddy buddy with your players.

 

[vodeni]

This is kind of funny:

not funny, this arrogant, fan condescending ****** is not funny,

 

[KIRK]

What brand of glue did you use this morning?

C'mon now, you know I've always been one of the optimists around here when it comes to Bylsma's bench management.

Or, are you asking me for some of the glue for yourself?

 

[KIRK]

I pointed out that they are capable of playing very well despite the flaws in the roster because they have two superstars. They are also capable of playing poorly and it's partially because there is nobody to provide any offense. It's also because the power play is awful, which is partially an issue of what they've got and partially a coaching one. My point is, it's not just (or even mainly) Bylsma here. There is plenty of blame to go around. They're playing really poorly and they'll play really well again soon. The flaws in the roster are always there in the background and as soon as Malkin & Crosby start giving lay-ups to the other team in the form of bad passes and the defense's confidence breaks down, those flaws are exposed and they play with no heart. There is nobody other than Malkin or Crosby that can spark them.

Nobody is saying that there isn't plenty of blame to go around.

And, I just don't buy the suggestion that Malkin's and Crosby's 'lay-ups' are happening simply because they are, because part of the reason is because they're trying to overcompensate for a system that they see putting them at a competitive disadvantage against teams that game plan specifically for the Pens.

I mean, the new PP seemed brilliant for a few games . . . until other teams started to game plan against it. Unique game planning is the type of thing only some teams do in the regular season (usually the weaker teams) and that everyone does (or should do) in the playoffs.

Teams scheme to take things away for or otherwise attack the Pens. When what the Pens are doing doesn't work, the answer for some here is 'execute' or 'personnel'. ADJUST is just as important an answer, but sadly it isn't a word in Bylsma's vocabulary.

 

[vodeni]

I vote know, just because of my life experience, this falls under that category, yeah you may hope that they will bounce back (and they will) game here game there, on a pure talent and goalies' great nights, squeeze into the playoffs, but there is nothing, nothing that points out that there are chances of systematic improvements, I don't remember when was the last game in which Pens dominated for 60 minutes, with good scoring chances not blue line shots and whatever sticks..

 

[KIRK]

Yeah, I think with the shortened season, the excuse is that he didn't have enough time with the team, and it's a valid point really (I know not all teams are struggling, I'm just saying it's a reason to keep him).

Also, I know he has some great talent to work with in Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, etc. But having to put guys like Tangradi, Jeffrey, Kennedy and even Dupuis in the top 6? Come on.

I would give Bylsma another full year after this shortened season with a potentially improved roster. I would give Ray Shero a chance to make some moves this off season to improve this team and maybe have some prospects make the team (like Bennett and Dumoulin)

If next year, we have the same struggles, (some think we will) then you let him go at that point, because there is no excuses then.

And the excuse last year was Sid was just coming back from a prolonged absence.

And the excuse the year before was that Sid and Geno were out.

And the excuse the year before that was cup hangover.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'd like there to be more to show for Sid's and Geno's years together than one cup, one finals, and a bunch of excuses thereafter.

 

[KIRK]

I voted 15 because I think that's about the window he has, but yah, probably last summer was the right time.

Just watched those In The Room episodes... watch his little speech before the Black and White game. I don't know if that's the way he always is (suspect so), but there's just nothing there. A string of monotone cliches and feel-good phrases in there. Maybe on the ice in practice he can connect with the guys, but the room seemed dead.

These guys just came off a 4 month lockout, they're back doing what they love and it sounded like a mid-summer practice. I think this might be one of those cases where the coach has lost the players not because they don't like him but because he can't motivate them any longer unless it's a big rivalry game. This year's results seem to bare that out... and if we play well again tonight and then struggle against our next mediocre opponent... not sure what other conclusion you could draw.

Rowdy and I were discussing this last night. IF you voted 15 games (and I did too), then what record do you expect?

I set the over/under after 15 games at 18 points (meaning 6-3 in the next 9 that includes NJ x 3, WAS x 2, NYR, NYI, OTT, WIN).

Anything over, and I think the sense of security will be restored for the team (although whether it's a false sense of security created by Sid or Geno heroics will be a question). If it's 15-18 points, then I think Bylsma more likely than not is safe. Anything under .500 after 15 games, and I think it's more likely than not that he is out.

Then again, if the Pens **** the bed in the next three, it may not even go that long. Remember, the Isles game may have been a train wreck, but the three games before that were ugly too (even the Ottawa win was a testament to Fleury stepping up and to Ottawa's big guns like Karlsson being off on passes and shots where they usually are money).

 

[vodeni]

what bugs me the most, the coaching staff had 8 months to sit down, watch the tapes of pens, watch the tapes of good teams, talk about strategies, the team is the same, they know or should know what their players are all about, and they put out a pp like that, and after 5 game you can tell they are in full panic mode, where decisions are mad let's just throw everything out and whatever works, that is to me a sign of incompetence, if you figured out what will work for you stick to it....if you did not, than it's see you later time....

 

[Zero Pucks]

I didn't read as much into the Megna and Bennett comments because he prefaced them with "they can both be sent down without going through waivers". I don't disagree he has a problem dealing with rookies but there I think it was strictly business.

Yeah. It was pretty clear Megna and Bennett were getting sent back down, I have no problem with that. But the whole you're not going to make those passes and plays in game 75 phrase pissed me off a little. He hasn't given anyone that opportunity at all, so I don't know where he's 'learning' that from.

 

[Riptide]

No point in changing the coach at that point.

That's my concern. If we're going to do this - you don't put it off if he's winning a few games. Either you believe DB is the coach to go deep into the playoffs on a cup run (3rd round min), or you don't. If you have doubts, then act on them sooner rather then later or it'll be too late. Especially this year as we only have what... 42 games left? You can't wait 30+ games for the coach to get his **** figured out.

Sadly, with little time for practices and no preseason, DB had/has less time to try to right the ship, and even bringing in a new coach may not help a lot, as they won't have a lot of time to change things.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Watching Jacque Martin (Spelling?) of all people make Bylmsa look like a fool in '10 really had me questioning if he was the right guy long term. He may become Toe Blake, but he ain't there yet. Scotty Bowman was fired. It's a part of the job.

Now you are seeing the players as exasperated as I have been. You lose respect quick for a guy you know is leading you down the wrong path. Dan has been losing this team since mid-point last year.

Jesus, let's not go ****ing nuts here.

The fire DB train is rolling, but let's not get nonsensical. I'll gladly send you mpeg's of all 7 games, and if you see anything other than Fleury being horrible and Halak being great, you're delusional.

Or, I can send you transcripts of about 40 text messages I received from friends and neighbors, which were essentially variations of "LOL FLEURY!!!"

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I very much doubt we miss the playoffs, so I'm not going to even bother using the regular season as a benchmark for Bylsma's firing date. It's how this team performs in the playoffs that I think will determine his fate.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

C'mon now, you know I've always been one of the optimists around here when it comes to Bylsma's bench management.

Or, are you asking me for some of the glue for yourself?

No way boss, I'm straight.

You know what that **** does to your mind?

You jack people just to get high, see things things that aren't there, think Neal at point is a super neat idea...

 

[StoneColdFlower*]

I don't want to waste another prime year of sid and geno. And that's what this year will be if he's still here.

We won the cup in 09 and have had extremely early exits 3 straight years since...including being up 3-1 on TB and collapsing. The guy gets outcoached, and that's his only job...to coach, not be a best friend. You can be likable without being buddy buddy with your players.

I'm ready to can him on account of the disaster that was the last few weeks of 2012, our embarrassing play so far this year, and some of the stupid little coaching mistakes over the years that have left me scratching my head in disbelief. The 2010 and 2011 playoffs have nothing to do with why he's getting to the end of my rope. We ran into a hot goalie in 2010 (only thing that upset me there was game 7...I was so certain that we'd crush the Habs that I worked the night of our last game in the Igloo) and we were playing a ******* offensive powerhouse with Jordan Staal as our first line centre in 2011. I no more blame Bylsma for any of that than I blame Scottie Bowman for what happened in 1993. 2012 was a different beast altogether. We were ****ing pathetic in some of those late season games and that whole playoff series was my biggest let down as a Penguins fan since the aforementioned 1993 series against the Islanders. Now we did get screwed with our playoff match up because of the idiosyncracies of the NHL's divisional ranking system (Why do we get Philly while Jersey gets Florida? ********!), such that a loss in a closely fought series would have been forgivable, but our play in that series was so pathetic that I am unable to forgive the coaching staff for that whole mess.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Jesus, let's not go ****ing nuts here.

The fire DB train is rolling, but let's not get nonsensical. I'll gladly send you mpeg's of all 7 games, and if you see anything other than Fleury being horrible and Halak being great, you're delusional.

Or, I can send you transcripts of about 40 text messages I received from friends and neighbors, which were essentially variations of "LOL FLEURY!!!"

We weren't very good defensively. Not just Gonchar's fly-by on Moen. Overall, we let the Habs' smurfs do whatever they wanted for much of the series. And we made Maxim Lapierre look like Yvan Cournoyer reincarnate in a few of those games. We played soff D, there's no denying that.

Offensively, I thought we could have played with more urgency. We seemed to have the attitude that "we will win this series in the end", with little urgency in our game. It was arrogant and it bit us in the ass.

That's mostly on the coach, I'm afraid.

 

[MtlPenFan]

We weren't very good defensively. Not just Gonchar's fly-by on Moen. Overall, we let the Habs' smurfs do whatever they wanted for much of the series. And we made Maxim Lapierre look like Yvan Cournoyer reincarnate in a few of those games. We played soff D, there's no denying that.

Offensively, I thought we could have played with more urgency. We seemed to have the attitude that "we will win this series in the end", with little urgency in our game. It was arrogant and it bit us in the ass.

That's mostly on the coach, I'm afraid.

Fleury allowed goals on the first shot of the game 3 times. Twice, they were shots from the icing line. The Pyatt goal, in game 4, and the game 7 goal. Let's not forget Moore's fadeaway jumper for goal 2 of that game. By the time the Gonchar fly-by happened, the game was over.

I remember Lapierre scoring a nice goal when he outmuscled Goligoski (which still isn't hard to do 3 years later), but I also remember Lapierre scoring on - you guessed it - a wraparound goal where Fleury took about 5 minutes to realize which side of the net Lapierre was going to come around. I also remember a puck going in off Letang's skate on a centering pass, but it happened so far away from the net that it should have been stopped, but Fleury was once again napping. I also remember zone time being about 65-35.

Don't believe me? Listen to Sid's rant after game 7, where he comes out and says something like "I've never seen a team's strategy to be to get outchanced 2-1 a game. I don't know how long you can win like that"

 

[wheelz87]

Eh I'm fairly certain Halak stood on his head every ******* game that series. He did the same to Washington. Dude was unreal the first 14 games before getting run over in the Conference Finals. That series was not on us playing poorly, we dominated atleast 5 of those games. It was absolutely about Halak playing ungodly.

And Fleury was.. well.. his normal self? His last 3 playoffs have just been brutal.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'm not saying Fleury wasn't the main difference, because he's proven himself over and over since then as the main weakness come playoff time.

What I'm saying is we definitely were out-coached in that series, and have been out-coached in pretty much every series in the playoffs since 2009.

 

[The Tang]

What I'm saying is we definitely were out-coached in that series, and have been out-coached in pretty much every series in the playoffs since 2009.

Absolutely. The only series you can really give Bylsma some slack is two years ago when so many guys were hurt, but even than only so much.