Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

[Dipsy Doodle]

The lockout explains execution. If any team in the league should be coming out with loads of effort after a disappointing season last year it's us. I'm not seeing it.

Rust manifests itself in many ways. There's being in shape, and then there's being in game shape.

I'm sure we'll get there. Right now we're microanalyzing everything when patience and an acknowledgement of the unique circumstances this year should be the order of the day.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Unfortunately there are two sides to that coin.

There simply isn't much more time to screw around in such a condensed season. Fair or not.

 

[IcedCapp]

Fleury starting vs. NJ. Would have preferred Vokoun to start (not because I want him to be "the starter", just think you reward a goalie with another start after a shutout)

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Fleury starting vs. NJ. Would have preferred Vokoun to start (not because I want him to be "the starter", just think you reward a goalie with another start after a shutout)

Well Vokoun against his old team last year I suppose was the factor in DB decision?

 

[Crafton]

Well Vokoun against his old team last year I suppose was the factor in DB decision?

make sense if you're going to use the "fired-up" theory. MAF supposedly gets it up for his teen-idol and i'm sure Vokoun wants to give a wink and a nod to his talent-manager Neuvirth.

 

[DegenX]

make sense if you're going to use the "fired-up" theory. MAF supposedly gets it up for his teen-idol and i'm sure Vokoun wants to give a wink and a nod to his talent-manager Neuvirth.

Let me preface this with 'I'm not a Flower Smasher' ... but whenever we play the Devils, it seems like Flower tries to out-Marty Marty and it's just not happening.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Unfortunately there are two sides to that coin.

There simply isn't much more time to screw around in such a condensed season. Fair or not.

What's the alternative, though? Bring in a new coach and hope he can implement his system quickly and thoroughly enough to produce better results than DB in a condensed season?

Doesn't seem too likely to me.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I would be OK with Phil Jackson but only if he promises to use the Triangle Offense.

 

[shureshot66]

What's the alternative, though? Bring in a new coach and hope he can implement his system quickly and thoroughly enough to produce better results than DB in a condensed season?

Doesn't seem too likely to me.

This is what I keep coming back to. I think Bylsma deserves much of the blame for last year's early exit, especially the manner in which it happened. But the team would have to just completely go in the tank to get rid of him midseason. And then really your only option is to promote John Hynes. Or bump up Tony Granato, I guess. Either way, it's going to be the same system, more or less.

 

[Crafton]

I would be OK with Phil Jackson but only if he promises to use the Triangle Offense.

no, you wouldn't be OK with Phil.

Craig Adams : Dan Bylsma :: Derek Fisher : Phil Jackson

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What's the alternative, though? Bring in a new coach and hope he can implement his system quickly and thoroughly enough to produce better results than DB in a condensed season?

Doesn't seem too likely to me.

You're right. This season is unique in that regard. If it were any other, I would feel differently. But you're right... there is nothing realistic or (almost certainly) helpful that can be done, at this stage under these rather unique circumstances.

One can't help but be at least a bit upset at seeing the same song but different verse as the end of last season, though. And I admit I've long been suspicious of the staff and their collective ability/ideas/philosophy. I guess at this point you just hope that they suddenly figure things out.

Another playoff implosion, though...

 

[Doug Exeter]

Another playoff implosion, though...

Come on down John Hynes.

 

[Slorp Train]

I just can't seem to wrap my head around why he refuses to go back to the DB MT hybrid system that they won a cup with. Obviously it worked better

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Come on down John Hynes.

That would be truly devastating.

If it comes to it... let's hope they are smarter than that.

 

[DegenX]

Don't most teams fire the assistants first, though? Go the 'send a message' route first?

 

[The Tang]

New blood and a fresh mindset would do good for this team now is all I'm getting at. In the long run, it would just be the same as what we have now.

 

[ColePens]

What's the alternative, though? Bring in a new coach and hope he can implement his system quickly and thoroughly enough to produce better results than DB in a condensed season?

Doesn't seem too likely to me.

I'm sure the same thing was being said when people said fire MT in February.

Don't you find it a bit troubling Bylsma just never went back to the system that won a Stanley Cup? It just irritates the hell out of me. It's one thing I can never get over. We chipped and supported the puck with short passes. We played a 2-3. Now we are throwing 90 foot bombs because it worked against Tampa for crying out loud in the 1-3-1. Seriously?

And I'm not saying Bylsma is a bad coach. I actually think him and Therrien were good coaches. In fact, the players are to blame a lot in this. But the effort shown Tuesday and even Thursday were pathetic. We are winning on skill. We are losing to teams who are battling us. It's no shock Toronto, Jets, and the Isles beat us. Three teams that wanted to win battles. We just rolled right over and couldn't match that intensity.

It's a huge cause for concern and I would almost bet we will do the same in the postseason.,

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

New blood and a fresh mindset would do good for this team now is all I'm getting at. In the long run, it would just be the same as what we have now.

Some people just believe change for the sake of change will be beneficial without considering the very real potential for downgrade.

"Tortorella's team has played like utter garbage this year and we beat them mercilessly most times we play them. But hey, he's different, so I guess he'll be better than Bylsma!"

I'm sure the same thing was being said when people said fire MT in February.

Don't you find it a bit troubling Bylsma just never went back to the system that won a Stanley Cup? It just irritates the hell out of me. It's one thing I can never get over. We chipped and supported the puck with short passes. We played a 2-3. Now we are throwing 90 foot bombs because it worked against Tampa for crying out loud in the 1-3-1. Seriously?

And I'm not saying Bylsma is a bad coach. I actually think him and Therrien were good coaches. In fact, the players are to blame a lot in this. But the effort shown Tuesday and even Thursday were pathetic. We are winning on skill. We are losing to teams who are battling us. It's no shock Toronto, Jets, and the Isles beat us. Three teams that wanted to win battles. We just rolled right over and couldn't match that intensity.

It's a huge cause for concern and I would almost bet we will do the same in the postseason.

The Pens do use the stretch pass a bit too liberally, but I don't think they're are sending 90 foot bombs every time they move the puck up-ice. I believe the Pens can succeed with Bylsma's system as they have in the past if they bring the requisite compete level and execution.

And Cole, as much as you justifiably dislike our breakouts and PP, it's pretty obvious that we did a lot right against the Rangers too, though it's either being overlooked or taken for granted in this thread.

The compete level wasn't our absolute best, but it was pretty good - much better than previous outings. Vokoun said it was an easy game for him because the team defense prevented the Rangers from going east-west so all the shots were coming straight at him, and it's hard to disagree...the Pens played very solid in their own end.

All told, it was a pretty decent early-season performance. Not pretty, but hardly the abomination some people are making it out to be.

 

[turd]

Without having read through the thread, the problem with Pens fans is that they're too loyal. I'm not advocating they fire Disco now (ask me at the end of the season). However, if they fail in the first round again, it'd be very hard to justify keeping him around. Yeah he won a Cup, but that shouldn't buy a coach a 5-year get out of jail free card. If **** ain't workin', it's gotta be tossed out. And I'd lump Shero into that. He has effectively depleted the organization of any promising forwards. Not every defenseman is going to bring in a Neal/Niskanen package.

 

[Ignatius]

Ron Wilson is a positively no (the ultimate underachieving coach).

I've thought for a long time that he would be an excellent guy for this team (Lindy Ruff as well). I think we need an X's and O's type of guy who is a bit hard nosed. I wouldn't say he is an underachiever considering that he was one OT goal away from winning a Gold Medal for USA against one of the most stacked teams Canada has ever iced. Team USA in Vancouver 2010 was good on paper but arguably a lesser team than what many other countries had assembled, Wilson turned them into a wrecking machine.

I wouldn't consider Wilson an underachiever, he was tasked with turd polishing in Toronto and did fairly well in Washington and San Jose.

HCDB is turning this team into the country club Penguins of the mid-90's and we need a change soon or else we risk sqandering some of the best years Sid and Geno will have to offer.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Ron Wilson??? Good God in heaven, NO.

 

[KIRK]

Just a note: I'm all for rolling lines, but when, going into the third, Neal has less ES TOI than any forward except a fourth liner and Geno again is running neck and neck with Dupuis for TOI (while Kovalchuk and Sid, for comparables, live there), it makes me wonder about bench management.

And, I also wonder if adjusting a PP from Letang QB, Sid RB, Neal decoy to Letang QB, Sid RB, Geno decoy is the smartest thing in the world. Then again, maybe I'm missing the brilliance in making Neal or Geno a decoy so Letang and Sid can shoot on the PP.

EDIT: I'm sorry . . . but we're winning, and everyone knows these are the types of decisions that never would cost the Pens in the playoffs.

 

[mrzeigler]

Pens currently are up 5-1 against NJ. Who here is with me in calling for the front office giving Bylsma a four-year extension?

 

[Malkin4Top6Wingerz]

Just a note: I'm all for rolling lines, but when, going into the third, Neal has less ES TOI than any forward except a fourth liner and Geno again is running neck and neck with Dupuis for TOI (while Kovalchuk and Sid, for comparables, live there), it makes me wonder about bench management.

And, I also wonder if adjusting a PP from Letang QB, Sid RB, Neal decoy to Letang QB, Sid RB, Geno decoy is the smartest thing in the world. Then again, maybe I'm missing the brilliance in making Neal or Geno a decoy so Letang and Sid can shoot on the PP.

EDIT: I'm sorry . . . but we're winning, and everyone knows these are the types of decisions that never would cost the Pens in the playoffs.

Grasp for those straws.

 

[st5801]

HCDB is turning this team into the country club Penguins of the mid-90's and we need a change soon or else we risk sqandering some of the best years Sid and Geno will have to offer.

That's typically the ebb and flow with most teams in the NHL. A "players coach" connects with the team for a while, then becomes too laid back, so he's fired and replaced with a "no nonsense" guy who gets immediate results, but his magic wears off and he's replaced with a "players coach", rinse and repeat.

I would expect Bylsma's successor will come from outside of the organization. I'm not convinced that its time to make the change yet.