Burke named President of Hockey Operations for Calgary Flames (MOD warning post 149)

[asdf]

I agree with that. The Leafs should have claimed any advantage they could and leveraged it. He didn't seem to want to do that.

For a GM here the team's needs are more important than making a fair league that will allow the Florida Panthers to be competitive

They used their cash to buy a draft pick in the Kolzig trade. They used their cash to take on Lombardi's contract to acquire Franson. The only example I can think of where he didn't is not offering long-term contract.

Does it really seem that bad though? The Lightning had to buy-out Lecavalier because of his contract. The Canucks couldn't trade Luongo because of his contract. And now the league has rules that penalize teams who signed players to these contract.

 

[FerrisRox]

Wilson sent Orr to the minors. The coach decides the roster. Same as Carlyle sent Connolly to the minors.

You're wrong.

The General Manager sets the roster, the coach decides who he's dressing, what the lines are, but he does that based on the players the GM provides him.

Only the General Manager determines who gets called up, who gets demoted, etc.

 

[Al14]

You're wrong.

The General Manager sets the roster, the coach decides who he's dressing, what the lines are, but he does that based on the players the GM provides him.

Only the General Manager determines who gets called up, who gets demoted, etc.

The coach has input as to what his player needs are. The coach of the AHL team also makes player recommendations too.

 

[Confucius]

"dude", thats not necessarily true, if kadri got offer sheeted to 3.3M or less we don't even get a first anymore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_sheet#cite_note-1

anyway ... food for thought

Well in that case we'd definitely Match.

 

[Warden of the North]

You're wrong.

The General Manager sets the roster, the coach decides who he's dressing, what the lines are, but he does that based on the players the GM provides him.

Only the General Manager determines who gets called up, who gets demoted, etc.

Burke said several times that "the coach decides the roster". He left it up to Wilson. Wilson didnt want Orr on his team, so Burke assigned him to the minors. This isnt true in all markets where teams may not be able to afford to have a guy making an NHL salary in the AHL, but in Toronto it most certainly is. So no, im not wrong.

Its the same as this past season when Carlyle decided Connolly had no place on his team. Nonis assigned him to the Marlies. The coach decides (in our market), and the GM respects that decision.

What also is true in Toronto is that when a call up is needed, Leafs management asks the Marlies coach whom should be up. They dont pick, the Marlies coach does. Eakins stated this MANY times in his time here.

 

[Hawaiinleaf]

Burke will build a big physical lunch pail team to battle the fancy Oilers and there elite talent will bring back the Battle of Alberta days in a few years..

Having Monahan already is a big leap forward

This year they will probably draft top 3 as well...

Give Burke time and he will make the Flames a good team

 

[highslot]

burke, the whole time he was in toronto was promising he wasn't in rebuilding mode and went out and got komi, macA, armstrong, beauchemin, connelly, orr, gustov, etc. so he was actually trying to win imo.

the bottom line is that not only weren't the leafs not ready to make the playoffs, but also they weren't good enough to compete, if you look at the leafs getting the 2nd pick overall and 7th.

so i'm not holding my breath on a quick flames turnaround, he has nowhere near the ability of gms like holland, lombardi nor lamoriello.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

burke, the whole time he was in toronto was promising he wasn't in rebuilding mode and went out and got komi, macA, armstrong, beauchemin, connelly, orr, gustov, etc. so he was actually trying to win imo.

the bottom line is that not only weren't the leafs not ready to make the playoffs, but also they weren't good enough to compete, if you look at the leafs getting the 2nd pick overall and 7th.

so i'm not holding my breath on a quick flames turnaround, he has nowhere near the ability of gms like holland, lombardi nor lamoriello.

It may depend whether you are willing to give him the time those guys were given before they became competitive.

 

[Frankie]

Burke said several times that "the coach decides the roster". He left it up to Wilson. Wilson didnt want Orr on his team, so Burke assigned him to the minors. This isnt true in all markets where teams may not be able to afford to have a guy making an NHL salary in the AHL, but in Toronto it most certainly is. So no, im not wrong.

Its the same as this past season when Carlyle decided Connolly had no place on his team. Nonis assigned him to the Marlies. The coach decides (in our market), and the GM respects that decision.

What also is true in Toronto is that when a call up is needed, Leafs management asks the Marlies coach whom should be up. They dont pick, the Marlies coach does. Eakins stated this MANY times in his time here.

if the coach decides the roster, what's the gm's job description?

ferrisrox is right, the gm makes the transactions and is responsible for the roster. the coach works with the players he is provided.

and if course, they all talk. they all have opinions.

 

[FerrisRox]

Burke said several times that "the coach decides the roster". He left it up to Wilson. Wilson didnt want Orr on his team, so Burke assigned him to the minors. This isnt true in all markets where teams may not be able to afford to have a guy making an NHL salary in the AHL, but in Toronto it most certainly is. So no, im not wrong.

Its the same as this past season when Carlyle decided Connolly had no place on his team. Nonis assigned him to the Marlies. The coach decides (in our market), and the GM respects that decision.

What also is true in Toronto is that when a call up is needed, Leafs management asks the Marlies coach whom should be up. They dont pick, the Marlies coach does. Eakins stated this MANY times in his time here.

Get real.

You really think if a coach told Brian Burke a player that Burke loved wouldn't make it in his lineup, Burke - against his own better judgement - would then turn around and send that player to the minors, making his roster worse in his own estimation?

There mere suggestion of it is so idiotic. I don't believe that you or anyone else would actually believe that, especially when you factor in what kind of person Burke is.

 

[New Liskeard]

Get real.

You really think if a coach told Brian Burke a player that Burke loved wouldn't make it in his lineup, Burke - against his own better judgement - would then turn around and send that player to the minors, making his roster worse in his own estimation?

There mere suggestion of it is so idiotic. I don't believe that you or anyone else would actually believe that, especially when you factor in what kind of person Burke is.

Absolutely. The coaches determine who plays, not the GM. Burke said this exact statement himself.

 

[diceman934]

Absolutely. The coaches determine who plays, not the GM. Burke said this exact statement himself.

Really....this is not minor hockey we are talking about...but the NHL.

The GM trades, drafts and signs players who he wants on the team, the coach coaches them. The GM is the coaches boss and you can be sure that they decide who is on the teams roster.

The Ice time a player gets is decided by the coach, but again if the GM wants the player to play he will play.

The GM is judged by how the team he provides competes and not the team that the coach wants. This relationship works best when they are all on the same page...but final say always goes to the boss.

The coach is judged by how he coaches the players the GM provides.

.

 

[DD03]

Really....this is not minor hockey we are talking about...but the NHL.

The GM trades, drafts and signs players who he wants on the team, the coach coaches them. The GM is the coaches boss and you can be sure that they decide who is on the teams roster.

The Ice time a player gets is decided by the coach, but again if the GM wants the player to play he will play.

The GM is judged by how the team he provides competes and not the team that the coach wants. This relationship works best when they are all on the same page...but final say always goes to the boss.

The coach is judged by how he coaches the players the GM provides.

.

So then why wouldn't all GMs be coaches? Since they pretty much do all the work anyways right? It's done by committee. Wilson decided we didn't have enough tough guys in order to play the style Burke wanted but decided (clearly a poor decision, no one is arguing that) to go with a more offensive system because the Leafs couldn't make the proper moves at the time to be the type of team they are now. Burke accommodated to his coach since we didn't have the proper team at the time to play the way we are now. Blame is definitely on both of them but the bigger influence is Wilson and it says so in both Burke's and Wilson's track record.

 

[New Liskeard]

Really....this is not minor hockey we are talking about...but the NHL.

The GM trades, drafts and signs players who he wants on the team, the coach coaches them. The GM is the coaches boss and you can be sure that they decide who is on the teams roster.

The Ice time a player gets is decided by the coach, but again if the GM wants the player to play he will play.

The GM is judged by how the team he provides competes and not the team that the coach wants. This relationship works best when they are all on the same page...but final say always goes to the boss.

The coach is judged by how he coaches the players the GM provides.

.

So GM's are willing to take the chance to bring in players that they want, not what the coach wants, and expects the coach to play them? Your posts are getting more unrealistic by the day. If you dont think the coach has input in the players he wants with the GM. then I am competely convinced you are simply looking to troll and debate for any reason. GM's wont get high priced players without knowing the coach is on board, and will put them in a position to succeed. Thats as simple as it gets.

 

[Mess]

Absolutely. The coaches determine who plays, not the GM. Burke said this exact statement himself.

MLSE recognized Burke was redundant in Toronto.

The coach decided the roster, and Nonis the assistant GM did most of the paper work of a GM.

What was left for Burke to do?

 

[New Liskeard]

MLSE recognized Burke was redundant in Toronto.

The coach decided the roster, and Nonis the assistant GM did most of the paper work of a GM.

What was left for Burke to do?

Thats not why Burke was let go, and you know that clearly. I understand the need to create conversation and stir debate, but you are blantly lying here Mess. You know better.

 

[Mess]

Thats not why Burke was let go, and you know that clearly. I understand the need to create conversation and stir debate, but you are blantly lying here Mess. You know better.

Burke allowed Wilson to determine the roster and as such Burke was evaluated by the poor results of the team.

Why wouldn't he be if the coach holds all the control of the results on and off the ice?

I was being factious, however you didn't answer the question if the coach makes all the important roster decisions as the GM allows him full autonomy then what does the GM do for the team?

 

[New Liskeard]

Burke allowed Wilson to determine the roster and as such Burke was evaluated by the poor results of the team.

Why wouldn't he be if the coach holds all the control of the results on and off the ice?

I was being factious, however you didn't answer the question if the coach makes all the important roster decisions as the GM allows him full autonomy then what does the GM do for the team?

Its called a colaborative effort between all parites. Why would a GM get players that the coach wont employ? That makes absolutely no sense, and no logic whatsoever. I guess Nonis signed Clarkson without the confirmation from the coach that he is a player that is needed and would be played? Coaches/GM and scouts all have an idea of how they want to construct a team and what kind of players make up that team. If you look at the management group when Burke was here, Brian/Nonis and Randy all had the same idea as to how to have a wining team and what players constitute that. For a GM to go out and spend alot of money on a player that the coach has no interest in using is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Gallagbi]

Burke allowed Wilson to determine the roster and as such Burke was evaluated by the poor results of the team.

Why wouldn't he be if the coach holds all the control of the results on and off the ice?

I was being factious, however you didn't answer the question if the coach makes all the important roster decisions as the GM allows him full autonomy then what does the GM do for the team?

Drafts, signs, oversees, negotiates trades and contracts.


It should be obvious to everyone that the coach and GM will work together to build a team. Ultimately each has their own responsibilities, but there will be discussion between the two.

 

[Mess]

Its called a colaborative effort between all parites. Why would a GM get players that the coach wont employ? That makes absolutely no sense, and no logic whatsoever. I guess Nonis signed Clarkson without the confirmation from the coach that he is a player that is needed and would be played? Coaches/GM and scouts all have an idea of how they want to construct a team and what kind of players make up that team. If you look at the management group when Burke was here, Brian/Nonis and Randy all had the same idea as to how to have a wining team and what players constitute that. For a GM to go out and spend alot of money on a player that the coach has no interest in using is beyond ridiculous.

Burke is in the perfect position in Calgary now because he is neither the coach nor the GM and asked to take a back seat and leave all the heavy lifting regarding the team itself to those better suited for the job as Burke only delegates away his responsibility anyways as we've seen.

Burke can now ride in parades and sleep in the streets and focus on community work much like he did in TO in his position as President.

 

[New Liskeard]

Burke is in the perfect position in Calgary now because he is neither the coach nor the GM and asked to take a back seat and leave all the heavy lifting regarding the team itself to those better suited for the job as Burke only delegates away his responsibility anyways as we've seen.

Burke can now ride in parades and sleep in the streets and focus on community work much like he did in TO in his position as President.

Sure thing Mess, whatever you think.

 

[Ciao]

The GM can choose to follow the advice of his NHL or AHL coaches, or his pro or amateur scouts or whomever he likes. None of that changes the fact that all player transactions are the actions of the GM and his responsibility, no matter whose advice he chooses to follow.

 

[Frankie]

The GM can choose to follow the advice of his NHL or AHL coaches, or his pro or amateur scouts or whomever he likes. None of that changes the fact that all player transactions are the actions of the GM and his responsibility, no matter whose advice he chooses to follow.

this is 100% accurate.

of course the gm talks to the coach. of course the coach shares his opinion. I would assume that most of the time, their two opinions are very similar. that's why the gm hired the coach, and/or why the coach works for the gm.

the fundamental job of the gm is to provide and shape the roster. the gm makes all roster decisions. the coach coaches.

amazing that anyone would argue otherwise.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Burke is in the perfect position in Calgary now because he is neither the coach nor the GM and asked to take a back seat and leave all the heavy lifting regarding the team itself to those better suited for the job as Burke only delegates away his responsibility anyways as we've seen.

Burke can now ride in parades and sleep in the streets and focus on community work much like he did in TO in his position as President.

Better that than hiring family members, overseeing franchise high contracts to mid level players and trashing your club's history, right?

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

Burke is in the perfect position in Calgary now because he is neither the coach nor the GM and asked to take a back seat and leave all the heavy lifting regarding the team itself to those better suited for the job as Burke only delegates away his responsibility anyways as we've seen.

Burke can now ride in parades and sleep in the streets and focus on community work much like he did in TO in his position as President.

Is this a joke? Burke won't "take a back seat" to anyone or anything.