Burke created this team, and Nonis is destroying it

[hotpaws]

He sure as hell didn't let them walk for peanuts.

He b/o Grabo for cap space after no one would trade for him and lost Komo to a 3 plus mil offer from the K . The others are still here .

If you don't like his moves that's fine , I'm still on the fence about Nonis myself but because you don't like Nonis doesn't mean Burke was some genius .

 

[hotpaws]

I think Nylund is asking a fair question.........which players did Nonis add while "putting together" that team?

Kadri-Fraser-McLaren-Kadri-Komoro were either acquired or in the system among a few others that were given the oppourtunity to play without the Lambo's/Komi's and Connoly's that were wasting valuable roster spots without contributing anything of value .

It goes beyond just who he brought in , he cleared trash and played guys who actually contributed to the team in some way .

Nonis didn't have much time ( which may prove to be a good thing ) to acquire much but he did clear the roster of crap quickly and I don't believe Burke would have buried Connoly or Komi .

 

[Mess]

Kadri-Fraser-McLaren-Kadri-Komoro were either acquired or in the system among a few others that were given the oppourtunity to play without the Lambo's/Komi's and Connoly's that were wasting valuable roster spots without contributing anything of value .

It goes beyond just who he brought in , he cleared trash and played guys who actually contributed to the team in some way .

Nonis didn't have much time ( which may prove to be a good thing ) to acquire much but he did clear the roster of crap quickly and I don't believe Burke would have buried Connoly or Komi .

Addition by subtraction is a valid proven theory.

When one person(s) in the group leaves and the group as a whole becomes better.

 

[Faltorvo]

My point was, they weren't predicted to finish in the bottom 5 by anyone credible. Saying that how could Burke walk away from landing Kessel. I don't think it was an error. Anyway, imo.

What?

We just finished back to back 7th last place finishes.

Vegas odds makers had the Leafs as one of the worst teams in the league.

You know, people that actually have to stand behind their predictions.

Not our mealy mouthed pundits around here on TV. It serves them no good to run around predicting to leafs nation that we would be the worst team in the NHL.

Most of these folks work for the people that had the TV and radio contracts. Conflict of interest much?

 

[Faltorvo]

If you took a look at the roster Burke left and the one that started the following season you'll see it was far from the exact same roster . But hey why let reality get in the way of your fantasy .

Like I said , Grabo/Mac had sub par seasons and had very little to do with last years miniscule success .

The core of this team is still the same one that took Bos to 7 games and has proven again it is flawed and unable to lead us anywhere .

Bukre and his quickie retool set this team down a path to no where and Nonis unfortunately has continued down this same road . No competent GM builds a team from the wingers in and Burke diminished our chances to build a cup contending team by trading 2 first at the start of a rebuild .

Dion,Kessel,Lups,JVR,Frans,,

Pretty large chunk of our core are players other teams saw fit to trade away.

How many cup winners can claim that the majority of their core was traded for?

 

[ULF_55]

Nonis is destroying it only if Grabovski and MacArthur were key players being missed.

In that case, it is Carlyle who is the problem.

 

[thewave]

Nonis is destroying it only if Grabovski and MacArthur were key players being missed.

In that case, it is Carlyle who is the problem.

I think they are doin it together and I voted for both their removal.

 

[ULF_55]

I think they are doin it together and I voted for both their removal.

Burke didn't exactly leave a powerhouse behind.

Seriously, have they won a single round of the playoffs?

We aren't talking about Nonis destroying some contender here.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Burke didn't exactly leave a powerhouse behind.

Seriously, have they won a single round of the playoffs?

We aren't talking about Nonis destroying some contender here.

If people were truthful Burke left Nonis a team that missed the playoffs 4 straight years by a wide margin. The key here is for Nonis not to panic and sell off our young players for short term goals. He was in a similar situation in Vancouver. He didn't sell off to save his job, I respect him for this. I think Nonis will continue the not panic mode, wait for Bolland and Bozak to return and hope some of the young guys improve their play. This is the only way to go. I don't see any short term fixes.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If you took a look at the roster Burke left and the one that started the following season you'll see it was far from the exact same roster . But hey why let reality get in the way of your fantasy .

Like I said , Grabo/Mac had sub par seasons and had very little to do with last years miniscule success .

The core of this team is still the same one that took Bos to 7 games and has proven again it is flawed and unable to lead us anywhere .

Bukre and his quickie retool set this team down a path to no where and Nonis unfortunately has continued down this same road . No competent GM builds a team from the wingers in and Burke diminished our chances to build a cup contending team by trading 2 first at the start of a rebuild .

You Nailed it, excellent post!!! We didn't make the playoffs due to them, therefore, we do not miss them. The Leafs are missing Bozak and Bolland, couple that with bad chemistry of Kessel and JVR with Kadri. You have a recipe for losing. When none of those guys are producing, it adds a lot of pressure on Lupul.

Defensively we have always had trouble with our 2nd pairing, this hasn't changed and it will need to be addressed at some point.

But once we get Bozak back with Kessel and JVR.

Kadri can go back to being an impact player with Lupul. It's a domino effect. When all 5 players are contributing we are a good enough team to make the playoffs. When Bolland comes back we add a 3rd line. So 2 players like Bolland and Bozak really do have a positive effect on this team.

All players are back to their rightful roles when we are healthy again and all will be better for this including the players that are struggling.

 

[ULF_55]

If people were truthful Burke left Nonis a team that missed the playoffs 4 straight years by a wide margin. The key here is for Nonis not to panic and sell off our young players for short term goals. He was in a similar situation in Vancouver. He didn't sell off to save his job, I respect him for this. I think Nonis will continue the not panic mode, wait for Bolland and Bozak to return and hope some of the young guys continue to progress. This is the only way to go. I don't see any short term fixes.

I don't have a lot of faith in Bozak and Bolland being healthy for many full seasons.

Both seem injury prone, and that makes them unreliable. Hawks could afford to have Bolland out on IR, heck does it look like they miss him one bit?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't have a lot of faith in Bozak and Bolland being healthy for many full seasons.

Both seem injury prone, and that makes them unreliable. Hawks could afford to have Bolland out on IR, heck does it look like they miss him one bit?

Perhaps Lupul, Bolland, and Bozak are all injury proned, or perhaps the law of averages are turning in their favours. I don't know, but there are players in this league that have been healthy after being hurt earlier in their careers.

Bozak should be back around after the christmas break and Bolland, maybe February. Maybe this is Nonis' only option, no doubt other GM's are trying to pick pocket him. We weather the storm and keep on the rebuild by keeping our young players. Only way I deal is for similar young players.

 

[Mess]

I don't have a lot of faith in Bozak and Bolland being healthy for many full seasons.

Both seem injury prone, and that makes them unreliable. Hawks could afford to have Bolland out on IR, heck does it look like they miss him one bit?

That demonstrates how far Leafs still have to go.

A player Leafs need desperately to return to help save the season, is a spare disposable piece after thought to a Cup competitor.

 

[ULF_55]

That demonstrates how far Leafs still have to go.

A player Leafs need desperately to return to help save the season, is a spare disposable piece after thought to a Cup competitor.

Hawks and Leafs play in the same league, can't think of many other similarities.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Nonis made two of the best trades last summer. Bernier and Bolland. Bozek and Clarkson don't look so great right now but give it time.

I think Clarkson is gonna wind up a bit like Wisneiwski. Starting his first season with a bloated contract and a long suspension messed up his whole season. Then he got good again.

Bozek never should have gotten that contract. Bozek = Stajan. A good player, but not one that you win with.

If the Leafs are in a playoff spot at the deadline, keep Phaneuf for the run. Then let him walk. If not, trade for futures or an upgrade a center.

The Leafs are gonna be fine. The Flames would love to have the problems that the Leafs have. I love seeing the Leafs win because it gives advanced stats guys fits. Go Leafs Go.

 

[gamer1035]

Nonis made two of the best trades last summer. Bernier and Bolland. Bozek and Clarkson don't look so great right now but give it time.

I think Clarkson is gonna wind up a bit like Wisneiwski. Starting his first season with a bloated contract and a long suspension messed up his whole season. Then he got good again.

Bozek never should have gotten that contract. Bozek = Stajan. A good player, but not one that you win with.

If the Leafs are in a playoff spot at the deadline, keep Phaneuf for the run. Then let him walk. If not, trade for futures or an upgrade a center.

The Leafs are gonna be fine. The Flames would love to have the problems that the Leafs have.

you're right we should enjoy 9-12 or getting our ***** kicked in the first round every year.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Dion,Kessel,Lups,JVR,Frans,,

Pretty large chunk of our core are players other teams saw fit to trade away.

How many cup winners can claim that the majority of their core was traded for?

So you don't acquire any improvements through trade because teams that win develop their cores?

Why can't Kadri, Reilly, Gauthier, Finn, etc be the core that wins with Kessel, Dion, JVR, Franson, Gardiner, Berneir as the complimentary veteran pieces that every champion also needs?

I'm not sure what most are trying to prove in this thread acting as if Burke worked without any input from Nonis before he was fired.

Nonis had as much to do with Burke's rebuild as Burke had here because his role was much larger then a normal assistant GM.

Some of you seem to think we should be competing with the LA's Chicago's and Boston's right now.

Personally I realize we're still 3-5 years out from that point. That's when i'll panic. When Burke got here this was a 5+ year rebuild just to create a foundation. That was 5 years ago.

 

[Jack Bauer]

you're right we should enjoy 9-12 or getting our ***** kicked in the first round every year.

So you don't want to make the playoffs?

I must have missed getting our ***** kicked last year in the playoffs. I remember 3 wins and 2 OT's in 7 games against a team we couldn't compete with 16 months previous.

 

[thewave]

So you don't acquire any improvements through trade because teams that win develop their cores?

Why can't Kadri, Reilly, Gauthier, Finn, etc be the core that wins with Kessel, Dion, JVR, Franson, Gardiner, Berneir as the complimentary veteran pieces that every champion also needs?

I'm not sure what most are trying to prove in this thread acting as if Burke worked without any input from Nonis before he was fired.

Nonis had as much to do with Burke's rebuild as Burke had here because his role was much larger then a normal assistant GM.

Some of you seem to think we should be competing with the LA's Chicago's and Boston's right now.

Personally I realize we're still 3-5 years out from that point. That's when i'll panic. When Burke got here this was a 5+ year rebuild just to create a foundation. That was 5 years ago.

Truth be told keeping Wilson so long decimated Burke and his rebuild. Never build around a coach, never ever ever ever.

 

[DaveT83*]

Truth be told keeping Wilson so long decimated Burke and his rebuild. Never build around a coach, never ever ever ever.

Tradign what became Sequin + Hamilton + 2nd is what killed his rebuild. His first move crippled this franchise for 5 years.

 

[thewave]

People always ask, why do the TML suck? I am going to attempt to answer this.

Toronto has sucked because at a management level the collective mind at play are quite simply, scatter brained. The organization itself is bloated and it's people overpaid and live a life of luxury, fueled by nepotism and ******** this team absolutely loaded with money has no ****ing clue what to do. They have not even formed a club play style that is our own where organizations like the Red Wings have had them in place for 20 years. We have zero structure fat cats and pension plans and misguided directors toil and screw the living crap out of us every other year with a change in direction, a lost love for a prospect or something else.

When Stavros, a wealthy man by his own right had his fingers on his own money, he did the best he could to be competitive and we had 4 conference finals, do you all not find it suspect that when Stavros sold the team never made the playoffs again until last year?

The truth is that Rogers / Bell needs a tyrant hell bent on success and who calls the shots and doesn't work by commitee, one the scale no other organizations have, bloat. This Oranization has to be run by a General who has HIS OWN colonels commanders and captains. Not this YES-man la te da atmosphere of idealists who are really nothing but flakes. Nonis is a flake GM for Tim, Tim is a loud mouth and just tells you what you want to hear. A real General will be silent and control and make moves that work 9 times out of 10, anything less for this club is nothing short of parallels of the Muskoka 5

 

[Daisy Jane]

People always ask, why do the TML suck? I am going to attempt to answer this.

Toronto has sucked because at a management level the collective mind at play are quite simply, scatter brained. The organization itself is bloated and it's people overpaid and live a life of luxury, fueled by nepotism and ******** this team absolutely loaded with money has no ****ing clue what to do. They have not even formed a club play style that is our own where organizations like the Red Wings have had them in place for 20 years. We have zero structure fat cats and pension plans and misguided directors toil and screw the living crap out of us every other year with a change in direction, a lost love for a prospect or something else.

When Stavros, a wealthy man by his own right had his fingers on his own money, he did the best he could to be competitive and we had 4 conference finals, do you all not find it suspect that when Stavros sold the team never made the playoffs again until last year?

The truth is that Rogers / Bell needs a tyrant hell bent on success and who calls the shots and doesn't work by commitee, one the scale no other organizations have, bloat. This Oranization has to be run by a General who has HIS OWN colonels commanders and captains. Not this YES-man la te da atmosphere of idealists who are really nothing but flakes. Nonis is a flake GM for Tim, Tim is a loud mouth and just tells you what you want to hear. A real General will be silent and control and make moves that work 9 times out of 10, anything less for this club is nothing short of parallels of the Muskoka 5

I feel at times we don't agree on certain things - but I was screaming this since 2003. yeup yeup yeup.

there is a reason why most of the organizations in the league are by one person. As much as you want to laugh at Ed Snyder - when he's not happy, people get fired. at the end of the day HE'S got to look at that team and go, nope - not happy. (or yeup am happy).

there needs to be clear leadership at top, and it all filters down.

case in point - the entire world knew there was going to be a lockout, JFJ goes: I have a plan that in 3-4 years we're going to be better, but we're going to suck right now. MLSE says, nope. we've gotta try to win. hence: Muskoka Five.

 

[thewave]

I feel at times we don't agree on certain things - but I was screaming this since 2003. yeup yeup yeup.

there is a reason why most of the organizations in the league are by one person. As much as you want to laugh at Ed Snyder - when he's not happy, people get fired. at the end of the day HE'S got to look at that team and go, nope - not happy. (or yeup am happy).

there needs to be clear leadership at top, and it all filters down.

case in point - the entire world knew there was going to be a lockout, JFJ goes: I have a plan that in 3-4 years we're going to be better, but we're going to suck right now. MLSE says, nope. we've gotta try to win. hence: Muskoka Five.

A sports team is a little army. That's what they are and they need a chess master to make the moves. When you have a dozen hands on the wheel and everyone buying for fingerprint time nothing coherent will ever get done.

I want this, I think that, I don't think, I I I. Just decide what you want. Do they want a dirty hard hitting bash and crash Carlyle team? Yes? Great trade Kessel and all your softies, but maybe the intolerance for physical play is a bad idea? Everything is a suspension now. Well maybe Carlyle isn't a fit considering over half his team are skill guys.

Nonis is to slow to transition to a Carlyle team to begin with we will wait forever, maybe somewhere in the middle is where we should go. It's not for me to decide but this team shares the City o Toronto's reported lack of identity.

Put it together develop a strategy commit to it and **** off with all the plan the parade pressers and Clarkson marketing hype propaganda ********. This is a ****ing hockey club not a three ring circus! Get it together!

End rant

 

[DaveT83*]

I feel at times we don't agree on certain things - but I was screaming this since 2003. yeup yeup yeup.

there is a reason why most of the organizations in the league are by one person. As much as you want to laugh at Ed Snyder - when he's not happy, people get fired. at the end of the day HE'S got to look at that team and go, nope - not happy. (or yeup am happy).

there needs to be clear leadership at top, and it all filters down.

case in point - the entire world knew there was going to be a lockout, JFJ goes: I have a plan that in 3-4 years we're going to be better, but we're going to suck right now. MLSE says, nope. we've gotta try to win. hence: Muskoka Five.

And now the Haliburton 4: Kessel, Dion, Bozak, Clarkson.

 

[thewave]

And now the Haliburton 4: Kessel, Dion, Bozak, Clarkson.

A single person, an owner independent truly smart businessman will never let his money be pissed out the window and will typically buy into things he knows about. This is why detroits owners are respected and a sense of organizational harmony is present. 20 years they have been excellent, 20! Just like the decade we had under Stavros a truly smart hockey fan.

Corporations look at the leafs like, the division profitable? Yes? Ok don't have to focus on that much. It's the classic case of we're GM we are biggest and best, profits declining all the way until they were in hock and hit the panic buttons. That is your TML organization. It's a sad state of affairs and its about time they purge the entire system of all it's deadweight.