Bunting for Calder

[notbias]

The argument now to discredit Bunting is basically

"Let's remove all context from how the other rookies are getting points, but let's keep it for Bunting"

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

he might get nominated but he's not winning it, not over the Detroit boys.

but he could break the franchise record for points by a rookie which is crazy because Matthews only broke it 5 years ago

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Bunting is a +20 while Sieder is a -30. That's a 50 goal differencial

This is just a bad take.

 

[ER89]

Look, if seider was a leaf you'd cry till you're blue in the face if bunting had won.

Seider is the deserving winner. Lets just be happy we got a stud winger for sub milly. That should be enough.

 

[ITM]

As an exercise, I'd be interested to see where people take players in the Calder race if they were given the option to build a team. If I was given two picks - in order - I'd choose:

(1) Moritz Seider
(2) Jeremy Swayman (Funny, no one is mentioning Jeremy Swayman in the conversation. But he's on his way to being a number one goalie.)

All credit to Bunting, but if you've watched Moritz Seider play, coupled with his production (and he wasn't a minus 12 the entire season, he was actually a plus for some time on a team that's compromised -- as a twenty year old) and his game controlling play, there's little to argue about and...IF I was a judge and didn't vote for Seider, I would worry about being that guy who didn't take the obvious pick.

Seider's not a Barret Jackman pick. For context, he's three points off of Makar's Calder winning season, while being physically dominant and displaying great control over the pace of a game. He's a minute-muncher, and plays in all situations, a truly incredible find (what a pick by Yzerman to pick against consensus) and Bunting losing to him is no slight on Bunting or an indication that it's a popularity context.

If Zegras wins, well...there might be smoke.

 

[notbias]

As an exercise, I'd be interested to see where people take players in the Calder race if they were given the option to build a team. If I was given two picks - in order - I'd choose:

(1) Moritz Seider
(2) Jeremy Swayman (Funny, no one is mentioning Jeremy Swayman in the conversation. But he's on his way to being a number one goalie.)

All credit to Bunting, but if you've watched Moritz Seider play, coupled with his production (and he wasn't a minus 12 the entire season, he was actually a plus for some time on a team that's compromised -- as a twenty year old) and his game controlling play, there's little to argue about and...IF I was a judge and didn't vote for Seider, I would worry about being that guy who didn't take the obvious pick.

Seider's not a Barret Jackman pick. For context, he's three points off of Makar's Calder winning season, while being physically dominant and displaying great control over the pace of a game. He's a minute-muncher, and plays in all situations, a truly incredible find (what a pick by Yzerman to pick against consensus) and Bunting losing to him is no slight on Bunting or an indication that it's a popularity context.

If Zegras wins, well...there might be smoke.

Why compare who you'd take with who is having the best season? It is a pointless exercise.

Should the Stanley Cup be given to the team that should win or who wins?

 

[ITM]

Why compare who you'd take with who is having the best season? It is a pointless exercise.

Should the Stanley Cup be given to the team that should win or who wins?

(A) It's not a pointless exercise. It's to demonstrate that there's at least some bias in this consideration. Namely, Swayman hasn't been mentioned at all. Why? Bias? Ignorance? This isn't the Rocket where a total finalizes the winner. There's a process of assessment. To my mind that assessment could include a list of players you'd build a team from in addition to their stats, deployment, etc.

Pairing Seider and Swayman has merit for another reason. Proficiency is a quality when considering the Calder winner. The most proficient player wins the award apparently. Fine. Is Swayman a more proficient goalie than Bunting is a forward? Or Seider a defenceman?

The exercise supplements the obvious gap in this discussion and a number of others. Comparison is the name of the game when it comes to the Calder. It's not an entirely objective exercise.

(B) The Stanley Cup will be given to the team who should win and "who wins it" because they'll have won it.

One is a process (The Calder Trophy) that has been and is vulnerable to subjective opinion. The other (The Stanley Cup) is awarded without bias to the team that succeeds in winning four games in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Hope this helps.

 

[Clark4Ever]

If Sergei Makarov won the Calder as a 31 year old, Bunting should win it hands down.

 

[Frostitute]

Why would they need to come out and say that? It's just common sense what Seider and Zegras are doing at their age is more special than what Bunting did. That's not a knock on Bunting he's still special for us. When I say age matters as a factor I'm saying that casually. It's an accepted fact and thinking about our own superstars when they were 19-21 should be enough for you. Imagine Marners 61 points going up against Buntings points. It would be an outrage if 26 year old Bunting beat 20 year old Marner. Marner had to actually be a line carrier at 20 years old there's nothing to debate here about age. Seider deserves it 100% he's a special player more so than Bunting.

It would not be an outrage to me of Bunting was the better rookie? Age shouldn't play a role if you are eligible. Age has already been taken into consideration by enforcing a age cutoff restriction. It really shouldn't go beyond that.

 

[LeafGrief]

Bunting for Calder is an absolute joke. Seider is a #1D, Bunting is a having a good top6 winger season. A 16 point difference between the two does not make up for the difference in impact between a winger and a #1D.

 

[saffronleaf]

Look, if seider was a leaf you'd cry till you're blue in the face if bunting had won.

Seider is the deserving winner. Lets just be happy we got a stud winger for sub milly. That should be enough.

Lol but it's fun cuz wings fans get upset. Let's go Bunting!

 

[saffronleaf]

(A) It's not a pointless exercise. It's to demonstrate that there's at least some bias in this consideration. Namely, Swayman hasn't been mentioned at all. Why? Bias? Ignorance? This isn't the Rocket where a total finalizes the winner. There's a process of assessment. To my mind that assessment could include a list of players you'd build a team from in addition to their stats, deployment, etc.

Pairing Seider and Swayman has merit for another reason. Proficiency is a quality when considering the Calder winner. The most proficient player wins the award apparently. Fine. Is Swayman a more proficient goalie than Bunting is a forward? Or Seider a defenceman?

The exercise supplements the obvious gap in this discussion and a number of others. Comparison is the name of the game when it comes to the Calder. It's not an entirely objective exercise.

(B) The Stanley Cup will be given to the team who should win and "who wins it" because they'll have won it.

One is a process (The Calder Trophy) that has been and is vulnerable to subjective opinion. The other (The Stanley Cup) is awarded without bias to the team that succeeds in winning four games in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Hope this helps.

Forget Swayman I want Swae Lee

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

Everybody picking Seider???

I'm not buying it. Hear me out.

He's going to be a stud and is having a great rookie season BUT, Detroit is a tire fire of a team, they are rebuilding so with that said of course they are going to give their young stud the wheel and have him develop without any pressure to actually succeed. Which is great for his development. He is given (you can say earned, without much competition tho) top pairing minutes, put on the top PP, playing the best situations to help him succeed because the teams not expected to do any better. You can make the same argument and say he isn't the guy that's turning the team around on his own as they are still a bad team but still putting up great individual stats.

Bunting is on a great top line, we have Hyman as a measuring stick that also played with Matthews and marner and Bunting is wayyyy better in that role. We shouldn't mention age as a factor as he qualifies for the Calder and that isn't his fault (panarin won over McDavid not too long ago) Bunting is putting up great numbers with less TOI, less PP minutes, top 3 most penalties drawn, having better +/- than his linemates and plays in the dirty areas. He already has a 23g season 40assists and almost hitting 70pts!!!!. He also EARNED HIS WAY to the top line, wasn't gifted it.

 

[ZEBROA]

D dude from Dtroit

 

[A1LeafNation]

Bunting for Calder is an absolute joke. Seider is a #1D, Bunting is a having a good top6 winger season. A 16 point difference between the two does not make up for the difference in impact between a winger and a #1D.

16 point difference.

Damn didn't know it was that big of a landslide.

 

[Martin Skoula]

When Matthews won it I was told the Calder wasn't a real award and didn't matter. Why are people getting so upset about Seider potentially not winning an award that doesn't matter?

 

[Commander Clueless]

Bunting is great.

I still give it to Seider.

 

[ACC1224]

Bunting is great.

I still give it to Seider.

This for me.
Even being nominated should be considered an accomplishment.

 

[griffon1]

Why would they need to come out and say that? It's just common sense what Seider and Zegras are doing at their age is more special than what Bunting did. That's not a knock on Bunting he's still special for us. When I say age matters as a factor I'm saying that casually. It's an accepted fact and thinking about our own superstars when they were 19-21 should be enough for you. Imagine Marners 61 points going up against Buntings points. It would be an outrage if 26 year old Bunting beat 20 year old Marner. Marner had to actually be a line carrier at 20 years old there's nothing to debate here about age. Seider deserves it 100% he's a special player more so than Bunting.

It's Rookie of the Year Not Youngest Rookie with the Brightest Future

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Forget Swayman I want Swae Lee

 

[Menzinger]

If age matters they should outright define the award that way.

Otherwise Bunting has had the best rookie season.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

-Bunting now has 8 points over 2nd place in the rookie scoring race.
-He’s the only one in the top 4 of scoring with less than 22 power play points with only 6. So he’s been an even strength machine.
-He's the only one in the top 4 of scoring that has less than 18 minutes of ice time with a mere 15:41 average.
-He’s the only one in the top 4 of scoring that has a positive plus/minus at a team leading +30. Next closest on the Leafs is +23. So it doesn’t seem like he’s getting carried.
-He’s already surpassed the best season of the top lines LWer for the past 5 years (Hyman) by 22 points. Yaya shortened seasons, but that is the fact.

Not sure what else the guy needs to do.
"But he’s so OLD!!!" Then why wouldn’t they put the stipulation on the trophy to be 21 or under or whatever?
Cause the bloody guy is eligible.

Just because a dman has 47 points with 22 of them on the PP while not being a complete scrub on a scrub team? It’s the logic that someone needs to score on a bad team and he’s getting fed 23 minutes a night, more than 7 minutes a night more than Bunting.

That’s my case, destroy me.

You're right on all counts but the NHL is guilty of age bias.

 

[Kazparov]

Love me some Bunting, but he plays on a line with 2 top ten forwards including the favorite to win the Hart. His stats wouldn't be anything close to what he has if he played with normal humans.

 

[93LEAFS]

Silly. By saying his points aren't being inflated by playing two of the best offensive players in the league is silly. Of course he's being carried. If he were playing on Toronto's third line and getting 14 minutes a game he probably has half the production.

It's seider.

And where would every other ROY of the candidate be with Bunting's PP time?

 

[EXTRAS]

And where would every other ROY of the candidate be with Bunting's PP time?

Still better players than him