Buffalo Sabres 2019-2020 Training Camp Thread

[Aladyyn]

Ok, then give me an example why a guy like let's say Borgen can't crack the top6 this year, assuming he plays lights out in camp and beyond?

Because NHL GMs do not operate that way. We already saw that camp performance doesn't matter a year ago.

 

[MrMaster]

Because NHL GMs do not operate that way. We already saw that camp performance doesn't matter a year ago.

But he would at least be the first call-up in case of injury, and then if he plays lights out, what would be the incentive to not keep him.
Quality trumps everything, winning comes first and last. Also, veterans constantly get healthy scratched. Or am i missing something here?

 

[Aladyyn]

But he would at least be the first call-up in case of injury, and then if he plays lights out, what would be the incentive to not keep him.
Quality trumps everything, winning comes first and last. Also, veterans constantly get healthy scratched. Or am i missing something here?

You must be a fan of some other team then because these things don't happen on the Sabres

 

[BuzzKillington90]

Ok, then give me an example why a guy like let's say Borgen can't crack the top6 this year, assuming he plays lights out in camp and beyond?

Assuming Ristolainen is still here, you have:

Dahlin
Scandella
McCabe
Redmond
Gilmour
Montour
Risto
Joker
Borgen
Miller
Nelson

left after you remove the walking wounded that is Pilut/Bogo/Hunwick.

Rochester can have 6 total veterans on the gameday roster.

Assuming Lazar/Redmond are in the AHL thats two spots which leave 9 Players not including the 2 who will return. There are maybe 7 D spots. There are 6 who are already written in pen:

Dahlin
Montour
McCabe
Miller
Risto - (Again assuming he's still on the roster)
Scandella

None of these will be waived/easily moved. How are you getting Borgen on the roster? Assuming he's ready, which he's not.... especially with Joker in the mix

 

[jcbeze]

Ok, then give me an example why a guy like let's say Borgen can't crack the top6 this year, assuming he plays lights out in camp and beyond?

Because playing lights out is not theend all be all. Not that I agree with how things work, but that is in fact, how things work.

 

[OkimLom]

But he would at least be the first call-up in case of injury, and then if he plays lights out, what would be the incentive to not keep him.
Quality trumps everything, winning comes first and last. Also, veterans constantly get healthy scratched. Or am i missing something here?

See: Pilut, Lawerence

There are development reasons why someone would be sent down after playing well. When someone has been called up to be sent down again, you constantly hear about how the player got a taste of the NHL to see what it takes, to give that drive to the player.

For the majority of the time, veterans are often given favorable treatment over rookies. You will often find, especially on the Sabres, vets being scratched over other vets. You hardly, if at all, see vets being scratched for rookies.

 

[kirby11]

But he would at least be the first call-up in case of injury, and then if he plays lights out, what would be the incentive to not keep him.
Quality trumps everything, winning comes first and last. Also, veterans constantly get healthy scratched. Or am i missing something here?

At least under Housley, vets could consistently be trash and would never see consequences for it, whereas young guys who weren't Botts' chosen ones had extremely short leashes--see Pilut--or didn't even get a fair shake at the NHL level--see Smith and O'Regan. It still pisses me off that we lost DOR for nothing without seeing if he could've been a serviceable depth forward because we just had to play Vlad ****ing Sobotka all year

 

[MrMaster]

How are you getting Borgen on the roster? Assuming he's ready, which he's not.... especially with Joker in the mix

I was just assuming for the sake of the argument. I was about to use Joker as an example, who is much more likely to suffer under the circumstances it seems.
I really hope Krueger and his staff let quality speak for itself, not reputation. I don't think you can avoid him having "his Sobotka" though, it's the same with all coaches. (i.e. Babcock/Hyman).

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

At least under Housley, vets could consistently be trash and would never see consequences for it, whereas young guys who weren't Botts' chosen ones had extremely short leashes--see Pilut--or didn't even get a fair shake at the NHL level--see Smith and O'Regan. It still pisses me off that we lost DOR for nothing without seeing if he could've been a serviceable depth forward because we just had to play Vlad ****ing Sobotka all year

Uh Botts signed Pilut. How is he not Botts guy?*

 

[BuzzKillington90]

Uh Botts signed Pilut. How is he not Botts guy?*

It was widely reported that Pilut was signing here while Murray was still GM, Botts may have honored a contract offer.

 

[kirby11]

Uh Botts signed Pilut. How is he not Botts guy?*

I guess that's true but he didn't get the same massively favorable treatment that Mitts and Tage received despite clearly being way more NHL-ready than either of them

 

[Jim Bob]

It was widely reported that Pilut was signing here while Murray was still GM, Botts may have honored a contract offer.

Ummm, I think you are mixing up Pilut and Antipin.

Antipin was the D signed in the summer that Botts was hired.

Pilut signed last year. He wasn't a Murray guy by any stretch.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

It was widely reported that Pilut was signing here while Murray was still GM, Botts may have honored a contract offer.

You're thinking of Antipin, not Pilut.

 

[Chainshot]

I think @Chainshot mentioned it somewhere but, there are just way too many defensemen in the system. Which will hinder development of some guys. Man it blows my mind to complain about this but we have to ship some guys out.

More that they have so many guys that there will be possible limited opportunities, limited opportunities to get needed development reps, including some like Redmond and MacWilliam who will be getting time because they are good at what they do.

It's good to have depth. It's also good to clear the chaff as it gets displaced.

 

[Matt Ress]

Competition is good. If they can't crack it and move past guys like Bogo or last years Scandella, then they don't deserve it.

No argument here. But then you're either moving your vets for peanuts (maybe rightfully so) or leaving budding young players with no ice time or in places like Cincinnati.
It just brings me back to sending 2 RHD to Winnipeg for whatever the f*** they want to send back.

E: chain beat me to it but it was more about opportunity than just blah blah everybody sucks.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm interested to see if the comments about competition are actually followed - if a vet who has not played well here in camp (or perhaps prior) is displaced by someone knocking on the door. We've heard that competition commentary before and then wondered at the direction of the personnel moves after some were clearly not up to the task. Let's see it in action.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

 

[Zip15]

I, too, like what I've heard from Krueger thus far. But the "do you like the new coach" narratives that get recycled with every new head coach are predictable and tiresome. Yes, they like the new coach. Yes, he's very approachable. I anxiously await the stories from every outlet covering the team about how reactions to Krueger have been positive.

 

[old kummelweck]

Botterill has to be feeling the pressure and that he has very little room for error. If there is a year he could waive vets and not play favorites with prospects, hopefully it's this year. One of the many things working against that is a new coach and it is skewing their evaluation with certain players if they think they need the benefit of a new coach.

 

[joshjull]

I guess that's true but he didn't get the same massively favorable treatment that Mitts and Tage received despite clearly being way more NHL-ready than either of them

I’m not sure why posters bring things like this up and think it matters. Pilut was never competing with Mitts or Tage for a spot on the roster.

Its like when posters who were mad because they felt Nylander had a better camp than Mitts. Even if that was true (I don’t think it was) Nylander was never battling Mitts for a center spot. So who cares.

 

[Fezzy126]

I’m not sure why posters bring things like this up and think it matters. Pilut was never competing with Mitts or Tage for a spot on the roster.

Its like when posters who were mad because they felt Nylander had a better camp than Mitts. Even if that was true (I don’t think it was) Nylander was never battling Mitts for a center spot. So who cares.

Personally, I don't understand the recycled complaints from last year's team, which many can't seem to let go of. We have a completely different coaching staff, our prospects are a year older, and the majority of our roster is still very young, meaning that major fluctuations in individual performance can be expected. Can we at least wait until they piss us off before we start complaining about them pissing us off?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Yes, Brandon Hagel is under contract to Chicago.

(If I'm confusing him with another player I apologize.)

I should have been more clear; if we went back in time to when the others were signed, would the resulting contract space have resulted in Hagel being signed.

 

[Dingo44]

I should have been more clear; if we went back in time to when the others were signed, would the resulting contract space have resulted in Hagel being signed.

I think we all thought we had a real late round gem in Hagel, and for some reason the Sabres thought otherwise. I guess we'll never know why.

 

[Buffaloed]

Assuming Ristolainen is still here, you have:

Dahlin
Scandella
McCabe
Redmond
Gilmour
Montour
Risto
Joker
Borgen
Miller
Nelson

left after you remove the walking wounded that is Pilut/Bogo/Hunwick.

Rochester can have 6 total veterans on the gameday roster.

Assuming Lazar/Redmond are in the AHL thats two spots which leave 9 Players not including the 2 who will return. There are maybe 7 D spots. There are 6 who are already written in pen:

Dahlin
Montour
McCabe
Miller
Risto - (Again assuming he's still on the roster)
Scandella

None of these will be waived/easily moved. How are you getting Borgen on the roster? Assuming he's ready, which he's not.... especially with Joker in the mix

Plus you have to figure the impending Ristolainen trade will bring back one Hunwickian cap dump that Botterill will feel compelled to keep on the roster because he could fetch a 6th round pick at the deadline. Casey Nelson might return a 5th so he's got to stay too. Can't risk losing valuable assets on waivers. So Borgen gets sent down where he sulks, becomes depressed, and loses his love for the game. Before you know it he's delivering meals from the finest restaurants in Buffalo for Uber Eats. Alternatively he hires a couple leg breakers to clear a roster spot for him.

 

[joshjull]

I did not expect a lot of Hagel talk with the opening of training camp.