Proposal: Buffalo Rebuild (see other thread for updated proposal)

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

1 time in 5 years Lehner has had a better SV% than Elliott.

Yes, keep fooling yourself Elliott is worth a damn. He was shit in CGY, now he's shit in PHI. Wonder why...

 

[FerrisRox]

I've been thinking about a ROR for William Nylander trade. I think Babcock would do that deal. Might send the Leafs to the Cup final.

For us , we'd have Alex with William on a second offensive line. Eichel, Mittelstadt and Reinhart on the top line.

If the Maple Leafs trade away Nylander and don't get a top flight defender back, they are fools.

I would trade Marner well before I'd move Nylander too. Despite what many Leaf fans seem to think, I think Nylander is a much better, much more complete player than Mitch Marner.

 

[Sparky93]

Yes, keep fooling yourself Elliott is worth a damn. He was **** in CGY, now he's **** in PHI. Wonder why...

Pretty much. St. Louis system inflated his numbers.

 

[TheNewEra]

what for scandella?

 

[Kcb12345]

I feel all of these deals heavily favor Buffalo except for the Toronto one, which favors Toronto.

 

[is the answer jesus]

You won’t have to worry about a young RHS, Hamilton quality defender for anything less.

Cool. I won't gut my team to get that player. Hamilton is a nice player, I'd certainly be interested in him, but he's not worth that package even with the those secondary pieces attached.

 

[is the answer jesus]

what for scandella?

We can't afford to trade him. We have 2 quality d-men on the whole team and he's one of them.

 

[TheNewEra]

We can't afford to trade him. We have 2 quality d-men on the whole team and he's one of them.

Sure but if your rebuilding then wouldn't he be too old when you turn it around?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Sure but if your rebuilding then wouldn't he be too old when you turn it around?

We need someone to actually steer the ship through this shitshow. He's one of 3 players I wouldn't trade at this point along with Risto and Eichel.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I feel all of these deals heavily favor Buffalo except for the Toronto one, which favors Toronto.

Heavily? Really? I mean I tried to make them fair at least in value, I won't get everyone circumstance perfect but to say any of these leans heavily either way is laughable imo.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Sure but if your rebuilding then wouldn't he be too old when you turn it around?

He's 27 now and locked up for several years, he can be a key piece moving forward and if we can't make the necessary adjustments in the next year or so maybe then you consider moving him. The only way I'd consider moving him now is for a very good young defenseman on the cusp of being an NHL'er. I'd imagine you wouldn't want to move the only guy on your team that fits that description (assuming you are a Senators fan).

 

[Hockeyholic]

Risto, Evander kane for Mcavoy.

 

[Baxterman]

Overall awful for Buffalo.

It is much worse for Calgary.

No thanks to that deal at all.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

If Gorton accepted that trade for the Rangers, I would personally beat him to death with a shovel.

 

[PAZ]

We need someone to actually steer the ship through this ****show. He's one of 3 players I wouldn't trade at this point along with Risto and Eichel.

I know the whole team has been bad, but O'Reilly isn't considered core anymore? Is it just due to age and where the team is?

 

[CraigsList]

3 shutouts in a row, 1 win in 11...we gotta move some major pieces

EDIT: Refined proposals

We start from something likes this (not really today's lines) - age; cap hit; contract years after this season;

Kane (26, 5.25, UFA) - Eichel (21, 10, 8) - Reinhart (22, ELC, RFA)
Pouliot (31, 1.1, UFA) - ROR (26, 7.5, 5) - Okposo (29, 6, 5)
Girgensons (23, 1.6, 1/RFA) - Larsson (25, 1.5, 1/RFA) - Pominville (35, 5.6, 1)
Nolan (28, 0.9, UFA) - Josefson (26, 0.7, UFA) - Moulson (34, 5, 1)


Scandella (27, 4, 2) - Risto (23, 5.4, 4)
Beaulieu (24, 2.4, 1/RFA) - Bogosian (27, 5.1, 2)
McCabe (24, 1.6, 1/RFA) - Antipin (24, ELC, RFA)

Lehner (26, 4, RFA)
Johnson (31, 2.5, UFA)

Bigger pieces in the farm of relevance with realistic chance for future NHL jobs in next 2 years:
Casey Mittelstadt
Brandon Guhle
Alex Nylander
Linus Ullmark
Rasmus Asplund
CJ Smith
Justin Bailey
Victor Olofsson
Evan Rodrigues
Nick Baptiste
Hudson Fasching
Cliff Pu
Markus Davidsson
Kyle Criscuolo

2 years of suck assumed (17-18 and 18-19). For 19-20 it is assumed Mittelstadt, Guhle Ullmark, Olofsson have made the team. Assumed defenseman draft pick in June 18 can make it on the roster in 19-20 (Dahlin, Boqvist, etc)

Sample Trades (feel free to rip them apart, I tried to be semi-realistic but don't know every team's detailed circumstances):

Kane to ANA Ducks
for
Maxime Comtois (LW), 2nd round pick (conditional - WCF)

Johan Larsson, Bailey, 4th round pick to BOS Bruins
for
Jeremy Lauzon (D)

Alex Nylander, Antipin to TOR Maple Leafs
for
Kapanen (RW), Bracco (RW)

Jace McCabe, Zemgus Girgensons, Hudson Fasching, Pouliot to NYR Rangers
for
Filip Chytil, Marc Staal

ROR, Okposo (30% Retention), Bealieu to CGY Flames
for
Hamilton (D), Valimaki (D), Brouwer (cap dump)

Lehner to PHI Flyers
for
Neuvirth, 2nd round pick

Draft picks by round:
2018: 1-1, 2-2, 3-0, 4-3, 5-1, 6-1, 7-1
2019, 1-1, 2-1, 3-0, 4-2, 5-1, 6-1, 7-1

Until 2019 - accept the suffering and patch the team with young players, AHL-ers and short term vets. Try to obtain a good vet Center through UFA (unlikely many will be tempted to go to Buffalo...)

2018 1st - draft Boqvist. Except for 2018 1st, draft mostly Centers for center prospect depth in the early to mid rounds.

Of course - Bogosian, Johnson, Nolan and Moulson are gone to UFA. Marc Staal either bought out or kept as 7th D. Brouwer either burried in minors or kept as 13F if we can't dump the last year of his contract somewhere.

Assuming some of the prospects we have and acquire develop well, we get something like this for 2019-2020 (you can throw in some UFA as well because this team is cheap due to general young-ness):
Comtois - Eichel - Reinhart
CJ Smith - Mittelstadt - Kapanen
Chytil - Asplund - DeBrincat
Rodrigues - Pu - Pominville
-
Bailey
Olofsson
Josefson
Davidsson
Criscuolo
Baptiste


Guhle - Hamilton
Scandella - Risto
Lauzon - Boqvist
-
Valimaki


Ullmark
Random backup/1B off UFA
-
Luukkonnen

No from Calgary. We don’t need ROR

 

[bearcountry17]

Evander kane for Mcavoy.

Torey Krug for Eichel

 

[is the answer jesus]

It is much worse for Calgary.

No thanks to that deal at all.

Not at all. Scandella is a legitimate top 4 guy locked up long-term, Reinhart is a good young top 6 forward with potential to be more. ROR is a 1st line center with great 2 way play, again locked up long-term and with 20% retained would be on a steal of a contract. Your giving up a poor man's O'Reilly in Backlund who's set to hit free agency, a decent prospect in Kylington (not close to a top prospect like say Valimaki or even Andersson for that matter), Bennett who's been trending down for the last couple seasons, and the only young really valuable guy with term your trading away is Hamilton and you guys are quite deep on the right side. This deal may not fit your needs right now, but as it stands it's much much worse for Buffalo. Not even really debatable.

 

[bearcountry17]

If the Bruins are moving Lauzon it has to be as part of a package for an impact LHD today who can take some minutes off Krug and Chara.

Lauzon+’18 first+Cehlarik+Beleskey
For
Scandella+ Nolan+3rd

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I've posted an updated thread with what is hopefully more acceptable proposals.

To repeat - doubt Scandella is made available. He has been great for us.

 

[Baxterman]

Not at all. Scandella is a legitimate top 4 guy locked up long-term, Reinhart is a good young top 6 forward with potential to be more. ROR is a 1st line center with great 2 way play, again locked up long-term and with 20% retained would be on a steal of a contract. Your giving up a poor man's O'Reilly in Backlund who's set to hit free agency, a decent prospect in Kylington (not close to a top prospect like say Valimaki or even Andersson for that matter), Bennett who's been trending down for the last couple seasons, and the only young really valuable guy with term your trading away is Hamilton and you guys are quite deep on the right side. This deal may not fit your needs right now, but as it stands it's much much worse for Buffalo. Not even really debatable.

Hamilton is a huge upgrade on Scandella, ROR is a slight upgrade on Backlund but basically a lateral move, Reinhart has better production but basically the same upside as Bennett so again basically a lateral move.

The deal basically has Calgary having the best case scenario of the exact same chances this year to succeed and going foward with the more likelihood of being worse off in both cases because of Hamilton being by far the best player in the deal and having the likelihood of still improving.

I would likely it is a pretty lateral move for both teams in terms of short term improvement for the team but I would much rather go forward with a young Hamilton than anything else we are getting from Buffalo.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Hamilton is a huge upgrade on Scandella, ROR is a slight upgrade on Backlund but basically a lateral move, Reinhart has better production but basically the same upside as Bennett so again basically a lateral move.

The deal basically has Calgary having the best case scenario of the exact same chances this year to succeed and going foward with the more likelihood of being worse off in both cases because of Hamilton being by far the best player in the deal and having the likelihood of still improving.

I would likely it is a pretty lateral move for both teams in terms of short term improvement for the team but I would much rather go forward with a young Hamilton than anything else we are getting from Buffalo.

Slight upgrade? Not at all. O'Reilly is Backlund's superior in every single facet of the game, throw in the fact Backlund is a pending UFA, and O'Reilly is locked up long-term and at 20% retained (which was proposed), it would be 6 million a year cap hit (even less real dollars) for a 1st line center. An extremely reasonable deal. As far as Bennett and Reinhart are concerned, there's really no competition. Reinhart has already shown he's a 2nd line player with the upside of being a 1st liner. Bennett's trajectory looks more in line with a 3rd or 4th line forward at this point, maybe he gets his game together and ends up where Reinhart is currently at, but at this point he's a lottery ticket and Reinhart is much more of a sure thing. In other words lateral move my ass.

 

[Baxterman]

Slight upgrade? Not at all. O'Reilly is Backlund's superior in every single facet of the game, throw in the fact Backlund is a pending UFA, and O'Reilly is locked up long-term and at 20% retained (which was proposed), it would be 6 million a year cap hit (even less real dollars) for a 1st line center. An extremely reasonable deal. As far as Bennett and Reinhart are concerned, there's really no competition. Reinhart has already shown he's a 2nd line player with the upside of being a 1st liner. Bennett's trajectory looks more in line with a 3rd or 4th line forward at this point, maybe he gets his game together and ends up where Reinhart is currently at, but at this point he's a lottery ticket and Reinhart is much more of a sure thing. another words lateral move my ass.

55 to 53 points for ROR to Backlund. ROR has a longer history of scoring at that pace than Backlund but I doubt they are more than 5-10 points apart so not nearly enough to make a difference in the Flames outlook, especially when you consider we are losing Hamilton as well which is a much bigger downgrade with Scandella.

Also ROR would not be our 1st line center and would be a pretty crappy 1st line center for any team in the league.

I have a lot of hope for Bennett. Saying he looks like a 4th liner upside is just a flat out lie. He is a 3rd liner at worst. I don't see any first line upside with Reinhart.

 

[is the answer jesus]

55 to 53 points for ROR to Backlund. ROR has a longer history of scoring at that pace than Backlund but I doubt they are more than 5-10 points apart so not nearly enough to make a difference in the Flames outlook, especially when you consider we are losing Hamilton as well which is a much bigger downgrade with Scandella.

Also ROR would not be our 1st line center and would be a pretty crappy 1st line center for any team in the league.

I have a lot of hope for Bennett. Saying he looks like a 4th liner upside is just a flat out lie. He is a 3rd liner at worst. I don't see any first line upside with Reinhart.

Lol. Such homerism. I doubt there'll be a disparity in scoring between a guy who's consistently produced at that rate and our guy coming off a career year. O'Reilly has scored 55 or more points the last 4 seasons. How many seasons has Backlund produced at that rate? And again an even bigger factor BACKLUND IS A UFA! He may not even be back with your team. Your right Bennett's upside is sky high. Coming off a 26 point campaign and looking even worse. You know what I can't even... Keep your players. No one else can possibly measure up to them.

 

[Baxterman]

Lol. Such homerism. I doubt there'll be a disparity in scoring between a guy who's consistently produced at that rate and our guy coming off a career year. O'Reilly has scored 55 or more points the last 4 seasons. How many seasons has Backlund produced at that rate? And again an even bigger factor BACKLUND IS A UFA! He may not even be back with your team. Your right Bennett's upside is sky high. Coming off a 26 point campaign and looking even worse. You know what I can't even... Keep your players. No one else can possibly measure up to them.

LOL

Homer? There are plenty on the Flames board that would disagree with you there.

It isn't being a homer it is understanding the Flames needs and a small upgrade upfront to lose Hamilton makes zero sense.

I am not a fan of Backlund and am fine with him leaving but ROR isn't much better than him and switching those two does little to change us from a 2nd tier team so no need at all to give up Hamilton to basically stay at the same level.

Also ROR's contract is a negative for me even with the 30% retainer.