Proposal: Buffalo-Pittsburgh major shakeup

[Empoleon8771]

im not offended--you are just out of touch with buffalo and have bigger homer bias.

You say buffalo needs a #1 Dman--they have one in Dahlin who is just 20.

You say hes hands down better than Risto--except they both have played high minutes. Risto is a little less points than Letang right now. Remove blinders from a Letang at 25. Hes 33 now. point differences is atreibuted to the team they play on and the goals the teams scores.

You just say hes world better--based on career or what they are now.

Letang is a 33 yr old not a 25 yr old. You k9ght have an argument of Letang at 25 vs Risto at 25. we arent in a time machine world.

show the isolated stats that say Letang is better than Risto/ A;lso you ned to factor in ROI which is return on investment since their salries are different. You have done that yet.

Says the guy who is disputing the point that Letang is better than Ristolainen.

Yes, I'm the one with "bigger homer bias" here. You're legitimately arguing that if Letang and Ristolainen were the same age, there MIGHT be an argument for the trade. MIGHT. And I'm the one that has the homer bias here?

 

[Habs10025]

There was a discussion on the Penguins board about this, so I want to get opinions of other fans. This deal assumes the Penguins lose to the Habs in the 1st round and also lose the draft lottery, which results in them having pick #15 in the draft. The deal is:

Penguins trade Letang and pick #15
Sabres trade Ristolainen and pick #8

Is this a fair trade based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen? I know Ristolainen has horrid analytics and the analytical community thinks he sucks because of it, but I'm asking about whether this is fair based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen.

Buffalo doesn't consider making this trade.

 

[Djp]

1. Letang isn't going to retire in 2 seasons. He's 33, not 38.
2. Defensive statistics aren't law at this point, but they completely exist. Them telling you something different than you want to believe doesn't mean they don't exist.



Idk, I just have the philosophy that waiting around for this to happen guarantees it won't happen.

You either need to bottom out and get lucky with drafting future elite players or trade for elite players now. When exactly is this "cup run" going to happen if you don't take steps to actively improve the roster? It's just something I don't agree with.

If he was to resign in Buffalo it would be a 35+ contract which carries numerous risks.
Uf he doesnt like it in Buffalo he can go some place else than Bufffalo walks away with nothing for this.

Risto they can resign for a longer contract than what Letang would want and there would be a better ROI

 

[Empoleon8771]

If he was to resign in Buffalo it would be a 35+ contract which carries numerous risks.
Uf he doesnt like it in Buffalo he can go some place else than Bufffalo walks away with nothing for this.

Risto they can resign for a longer contract than what Letang would want and there would be a better ROI

And so can Ristolainen, who only has 1 additional year on his contract compared to Letang.

How about this, why don't you just say no to the proposal without arguing things like Letang being way better than Ristolainen? You can just point out the age difference and say "I don't think we'd do it because of this" instead of acting like Ristolainen is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Djp]

this kind of crap was done in baseball in the 60s before free agency. good team would sell ageing all star with name recognition for crappy team and get their young potential star players as a way to rebuild on the fly. those players go to the new team and become stars.

this is the same thing you are trying to do here

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

1. Letang isn't going to retire in 2 seasons. He's 33, not 38.
2. Defensive statistics aren't law at this point, but they completely exist. Them telling you something different than you want to believe doesn't mean they don't exist.



Idk, I just have the philosophy that waiting around for this to happen guarantees it won't happen.

You either need to bottom out and get lucky with drafting future elite players or trade for elite players now. When exactly is this "cup run" going to happen if you don't take steps to actively improve the roster? It's just something I don't agree with.

Its not next year, they have like 8 roster players under contract this summer. It will likely be when Hutton is gone and UPL comes up so they start trying in 2-3 years. By this point Letang is very likely past his prime and Dahlin is a top D in the league. Again Letang doesnt fit their window where as #8 does.

 

[Fjordy]

Buffalo passes. We need 2C, top 6 winger and LD. It would be strange to waste resources on another RD. Also Dahlin will probably play for 20+ minutes and will take his rightful place #1 D.

 

[Djp]

And so can Ristolainen, who only has 1 additional year on his contract compared to Letang.

How about this, why don't you just say no to the proposal without arguing things like Letang being way better than Ristolainen? You can just point out the age difference and say "I don't think we'd do it because of this" instead of acting like Ristolainen is the best thing since sliced bread.

Gow bout we just close this thread and you go and pick on some other team with your inflated analysis.

this trade does nothing for Buffalo;s needs at 2C

Its easier to get a 2C at 8 than at 15

 

[sufferer]

Poor asset management wouldn't be a major shakeup in Buffalo.

 

[Flyer lurker]

In a vacuum I think the value of the trade is very fair. However, I don't think Buffalo is close enough to trade for 33 year old d-men.

 

[Empoleon8771]

this kind of crap was done in baseball in the 60s before free agency. good team would sell ageing all star with name recognition for crappy team and get their young potential star players as a way to rebuild on the fly. those players go to the new team and become stars.

this is the same thing you are trying to do here

Do you think just repeating this line makes it true?

Again, look at the Phil Kessel trade from last off-season. It was Kessel for a worse but younger winger in Galchenyuk. That's the concept of this deal. This isn't some deal to try to "rebuild on the fly", it's a shake up move in the same mold as the Kessel trade. The concept behind this deal isn't a "rebuild on the fly" any more than the Kessel for Galchenyuk deal was a year ago.

Gow bout we just close this thread and you go and pick on some other team with your inflated analysis.

this trade does nothing for Buffalo;s needs at 2C

Its easier to get a 2C at 8 than at 15

Yes, the stats that tell you you're wrong don't count because they don't agree with your preconceived notion.

You can just say "no thanks, because we're not in a position to make the swap" or something. Instead of acting like I personally insulted you by making the thread.

Its not next year, they have like 8 roster players under contract this summer. It will likely be when Hutton is gone and UPL comes up so they start trying in 2-3 years. By this point Letang is very likely past his prime and Dahlin is a top D in the league. Again Letang doesnt fit their window where as #8 does.

I can understand the argument when it comes to Letang, since he does only have 2 years left on his deal, but I don't really agree with the philosophy you're arguing here. I'm not a Sabres fan so my opinion doesn't really matter, but I'd be getting pretty irritated if my team consistently wouldn't go for it and kept insisting to be patient and hope the prospects hit.

How do I know that? I'm a Pirates fan and I've been hearing this for 25 years.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Is Letang the answer at 2C for Buffalo?

 

[BHD]

If Pens fans hate Letang, then I'm sure they'll love Ristolainen.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I can understand the argument when it comes to Letang, since he does only have 2 years left on his deal, but I don't really agree with the philosophy you're arguing here. I'm not a Sabres fan so my opinion doesn't really matter, but I'd be getting pretty irritated if my team consistently wouldn't go for it and kept insisting to be patient and hope the prospects hit.

How do I know that? I'm a Pirates fan and I've been hearing this for 25 years.

Surely the Sabres will be much better off if they trade out of the top 10 and get significantly older at the same time, all without addressing even a single team need. What could go wrong?

 

[Gurglesons]

Value would likely be Letang for Risto straight up maybe a minor pick add from Pitt.

I don't see why Pitt does that though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Surely the Sabres will be much better off if they trade out of the top 10 and get significantly older at the same time, all without addressing even a single team need. What could go wrong?

"I can understand the argument when it comes to Letang"

Literally the first sentence in the post you quoted

 

[Sabreality]

who cares about value, its a dumb trade for Buffalo.

Risto + 8 need to be used for 2C and top 6 F, not a D-man and a worse pick.

 

[66-30-33]

You just gonna assume you keep pick 15 and give us next year’s unprotected?

Pens gonna win the lottery and give Guerin the pick in good faith.

 

[Djp]

Do you think just repeating this line makes it true?

Again, look at the Phil Kessel trade from last off-season. It was Kessel for a worse but younger winger in Galchenyuk. That's the concept of this deal. This isn't some deal to try to "rebuild on the fly", it's a shake up move in the same mold as the Kessel trade. The concept behind this deal isn't a "rebuild on the fly" any more than the Kessel for Galchenyuk deal was a year ago.



Yes, the stats that tell you you're wrong don't count because they don't agree with your preconceived notion.

You can just say "no thanks, because we're not in a position to make the swap" or something. Instead of acting like I personally insulted you by making the thread.



I can understand the argument when it comes to Letang, since he does only have 2 years left on his deal, but I don't really agree with the philosophy you're arguing here. I'm not a Sabres fan so my opinion doesn't really matter, but I'd be getting pretty irritated if my team consistently wouldn't go for it and kept insisting to be patient and hope the prospects hit.

How do I know that? I'm a Pirates fan and I've been hearing this for 25 years.

The Kesell trade..Pittsburgh gets out of a long term contract and got a recent late 1st round pick. They get in return a player who could replace Kassel for 1 yr at a much lower price so ROI us about the same.

Arizona got a player a little older with a few more years left.

An equivalent argument from this analogy is. This is not real player value debate but the point should be obvious..

Say Buffalo has a 2C under Eichel who wants a $6M+ long tetm contract and he is a UFA in 2021. Pittsburgh has an older 2C center who is paid higher but under contract till 2023.

Buffalo has young prospects in Cozens, Mittlestadt, and 8OA pick but they ferl are better than current 2C long term

They trade this younger center with in yr left who is a little be;ow the older person they acquire who has 3 yrs left so they include a decent prospect in the deal and IT BENEFITS BOTH CLUBS in their plans.

In your proposal there is no benefit to buffalo.

They don’t have a Dman in the pipeline they need to wait a yr on. They rather hold onto Risto.. If he is traded it’s for what they need.

 

[OCPenguin]

There was a discussion on the Penguins board about this, so I want to get opinions of other fans. This deal assumes the Penguins lose to the Habs in the 1st round and also lose the draft lottery, which results in them having pick #15 in the draft. The deal is:

Penguins trade Letang and pick #15
Sabres trade Ristolainen and pick #8

Is this a fair trade based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen? I know Ristolainen has horrid analytics and the analytical community thinks he sucks because of it, but I'm asking about whether this is fair based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen.

So, the only difference between Risto and Tanger is seven slots in the draft? I blame covid for this. Stop brining up lousy ideas.

 

[67Leafs67]

Why would you trade a true #1 d-man for a crappy d-man who has been cast in a #1 role, that he is totally inadequate for? I don't really care if Ristolainen is younger, Letang is clearly, clearly the better player, and the Penguins' window is now, not in 5 years, when that age gap will actually make a difference.

 

[JackFr]

Jesus f***ing Christ no Ristolainen is terrible and has always been terrible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why would you trade a true #1 d-man for a crappy d-man who has been cast in a #1 role, that he is totally inadequate for? I don't really care if Ristolainen is younger, Letang is clearly, clearly the better player, and the Penguins' window is now, not in 5 years, when that age gap will actually make a difference.

I wasn't asking for opinions on whether fans would do it, I was asking if the value was reasonable.

Like I said above, the idea came about from a discussion of the Penguins making a similar deal with Letang as they did with Kessel in the Kessel for Galchenyuk trade. Ristolainen was an example of a player that fit the criteria, but there was some disagreement on how GMs would value that trade. The question was asking about whether the value of the trade was reasonable based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen.

 

[Djp]

I wasn't asking for opinions on whether fans would do it, I was asking if the value was reasonable.

Like I said above, the idea came about from a discussion of the Penguins making a similar deal with Letang as they did with Kessel in the Kessel for Galchenyuk trade. Ristolainen was an example of a player that fit the criteria, but there was some disagreement on how GMs would value that trade. The question was asking about whether the value of the trade was reasonable based on how GMs probably view Ristolainen.

As i said and you ignored...your logic is flawed

AZ-PIT deal was a benfit to both teams. Arizona wanted a veteran given they had a younger team for a few more years who has won a cup


Pittsburgh needed cap space because Kessell was making too much for their slot. They could trade him for a player a little less but could fit into that slot on a shorter term.

prospects and picks fill in.

win-win.

this proposal is not a win-win. Its one sided in Pittsburghs favor.

 

[Beerz]

I think its fairish when you factor in Letang being the better player but he also has injury history to go along with being 33 yrs old.

That being said I know this Sabres fan wouldn't do it.