Proposal: Buff/Cal/Col 3 way

[biturbo19]

Mittelstadt is

Wait a 60+ point 2C with team control is less valuable than a D that is UFA in two years? Tell me you don't watch the Sabres without telling me you don't watch them. He is their best forward this year.

No one actually realizes this, but the Sabre's actually don't need D. They need a revamped forward core that does the intangibles better and more consistent. Mitts is one of the ones that fits what we need.

He's a ~60pt #2C on a bad team with a small track record of producing that way after teetering on the brink of being a borderline bust. He's also 25, will be 26 by more or less the start of next season. He's not some super young prospect with huge untapped upside at this point. It's more likely that this is his career high water mark, than him developing into anything more than that.

He's also an RFA with arbitration rights that's going to be commanding a deal based on a "breakout year". With all the leverage to turn that into early UFA if he wants to, where he can pick his own landing spot and holds all the leverage in asking price as the cap jumps up.

That sort of "team control", we've seen become pretty useless. Especially for American players who don't want to play in Canada. You could very well end up with less functional team control than the two remaining years of Andersson on a contract that pays him about half of what he'd get on the market.

I just don't see the value in a #2C about to get paid, fetching a Top-pairing RHD on a fantastic contract. Whether Buffalo are comfortable taking on a guy who is UFA in two years or not, other teams absolutely would be.


As for what the Sabres needs...well...they certainly need more responsible 2-way Forwards who buy in and play the right way as well. But to say they don't actually need defensive help as well, seems like burying your head in the sand and ignoring a problem just because it's too obvious or something.

 

[McJedi]

The only player the Avs needed from Calgary was traded to Vancouver.

Avs didn’t have the assets to compete in that sweep stakes. They went all in two years ago and won it then. But now they don’t have the horses to horse-trade like many other clubs. So they must aim lower in their expectation of what they can acquire.

Parity. NHL wants it and gets it.

 

[crackdown44]

The only player the Avs needed from Calgary was traded to Vancouver.

Avs didn’t have the assets to compete in that sweep stakes. They went all in two years ago and won it then. But now they don’t have the horses to horse-trade like many other clubs. So they must aim lower in their expectation of what they can acquire.

Parity. NHL wants it and gets it.

I also feel like if Johansen was flanked by Landeskog/Lehkonen and Nichushkin we’re talking a lot less about Colorado needing to add a forward

 

[McJedi]

I also feel like if Johansen was flanked by Landeskog/Lehkonen and Nichushkin we’re talking a lot less about Colorado needing to add a forward

Perhaps. Having one or both of Nuke and Lex missing most games this year is a huge hit to our 2nd line.

But RyJo is very very slow and because of that, he’s been a very poor stylistic fit. He brings down 100% of the teammates he’s played with.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I also feel like if Johansen was flanked by Landeskog/Lehkonen and Nichushkin we’re talking a lot less about Colorado needing to add a forward

 

[tsujimoto74]

He's a ~60pt #2C on a bad team with a small track record of producing that way after teetering on the brink of being a borderline bust. He's also 25, will be 26 by more or less the start of next season. He's not some super young prospect with huge untapped upside at this point. It's more likely that this is his career high water mark, than him developing into anything more than that.

He's also an RFA with arbitration rights that's going to be commanding a deal based on a "breakout year". With all the leverage to turn that into early UFA if he wants to, where he can pick his own landing spot and holds all the leverage in asking price as the cap jumps up.

That sort of "team control", we've seen become pretty useless. Especially for American players who don't want to play in Canada. You could very well end up with less functional team control than the two remaining years of Andersson on a contract that pays him about half of what he'd get on the market.

I just don't see the value in a #2C about to get paid, fetching a Top-pairing RHD on a fantastic contract. Whether Buffalo are comfortable taking on a guy who is UFA in two years or not, other teams absolutely would be.


As for what the Sabres needs...well...they certainly need more responsible 2-way Forwards who buy in and play the right way as well. But to say they don't actually need defensive help as well, seems like burying your head in the sand and ignoring a problem just because it's too obvious or something.

This whole post screams “I haven’t watched Mittelstadt play hockey,” but that aside, it seems like most Flames fans would rather have Cozens, and most Sabres fans would rather move Cozens. There’s a pretty obvious deal to strike somewhere in there. Colorado doesn’t need to be involved.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

How about we throw in Terry Pegula and his daughter?

You forgot Adams and Granato.

 

[Irie]

You know who the caliber of players a 2c gets in a trade? Go look at kadri for barrie

Enough with the Kadri for Barrie comp.

Kadri had more baggage than O'Hare International Airport on a holiday weekend when he was traded.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Enough with the Kadri for Barrie comp.

Kadri had more baggage than O'Hare International Airport on a holiday weekend when he was traded.

Dont like the comps then bring your own. Better yet, show me any trade where a top pairing D signed for multiple years was traded for a 2c.

 

[Backlund]

A lot less than it would take to get Andersson.


It saddens me that you can be blind enough to think Byram is a better defenseman than Andersson. They aren't even in the same category. One is a fringe top 4 defenseman with upside. The other is a bona-fide top pairing guy at half the contract he should have.

Do you honestly believe Andersson is a 9M defenseman?

 

[Irie]

Dont like the comps then bring your own. Better yet, show me any trade where a top pairing D signed for multiple years was traded for a 2c.

I never said Andersson for Mittelstadt is fair value

I'm just saying normal 60+ point RFA centers return more than Tyson Barrie (Reinhart was playing center at a 60 point pace when he returned a 1st and Devon Levi, and his value was down because he demanded a trade). PLD had 63 points and look what he returned. Mittelstadt is on pace for 65 points, and he isn't coming off back to back playoff ending suspensions like Kadri was.

 

[Double Dion]

Do you honestly believe Andersson is a 9M defenseman?

Moving forward yes. I think Hanifin will get 8 this offseason if he's not picky about where he goes. I think 3 offseasons from now 9M is the bottom number Andersson will get. Severson signed for 6.5M this past offseason. Orlov got almost 8M per.

 

[johnnystormcgy]

I would rather move Hanifin and Tanev and rebuild from there, it makes no sense to trade Rasmus who was a Backlund away from being Captain.

We need to keep the players who want to stay here, not trade them away.

 

[Dulind]

You forgot Adams and Granato.

Let the new owner filling in for Terry figure that out.

 

[Double Dion]

I would rather move Hanifin and Tanev and rebuild from there, it makes no sense to trade Rasmus who was a Backlund away from being Captain.

We need to keep the players who want to stay here, not trade them away.

Does he want to stay? I don't think you trade him this year. You probably see where he's at in a year or 2 and then make your decision then. Of course if someone wants to blow your socks off you let them.

 

[Backlund]

Moving forward yes. I think Hanifin will get 8 this offseason if he's not picky about where he goes. I think 3 offseasons from now 9M is the bottom number Andersson will get. Severson signed for 6.5M this past offseason. Orlov got almost 8M per.

He's worth about the same as Hanifin. Andersson isn't a #1, we shouldn't be giving him #1 money.

 

[Double Dion]

He's worth about the same as Hanifin. Andersson isn't a #1, we shouldn't be giving him #1 money.

I'm saying in the summer of 2026 Andersson will be a 9M player if he's not picky about where he goes. I agree with you assessment that Andersson is worth about the same as Hanifin. I also think Hanifin would be a 9M defenseman in the summer of 2026 if he isn't picky about where he goes. Cap will be 18% higher than it is now at that time. 18% of 9M is 1,620,000. Meaning 9M then is 7.38M now. I think that would be the floor for either player if they were UFAs today.

 

[Ncit3]

That's comical. You're aware the Flames have given up less goals than the Avs right? If our D core sucks how bad does that make yours? You seem upset that Byram isn't good yet. He's 22. Fringe top 4 is charitable to what he is at the moment. He's worse than Zadorov and he was probably closer to a 5 than a 4.

Byram's value is in his potential, not in how he's played this season. He's 22 and has had a lot of injuries that have slowed his development. He gets creampuff minutes, Ozone starts and is still getting caved in at 5 on 5 while playing for a strong team. The Avs lack of a 2nd line C and lack of a second pairing won't allow them to advance past the 1st round unless at least 1 and ideally both things are addressed. You can't play Makar and Toews for 60 minutes. The Oilers, Canucks, Stars or Golden Knights will destroy the team as it's currently constituted. Possibly even the Jets.

Our goaltending is what sucks in Colorado. But I could see Calgary giving up fewer goals. Less talent, bog down the games. Make them low scoring boring affairs.

You get smarter. Facts are superior to your feelings. It's a fact he gets caved in possession against mostly bottom 6 opposition starting in the Ozone. It's a fact half a goal more is scored against him than they score when he's on the ice. That isn't what a good defenseman does. Potential is subjective. I believe he has potential. Numbers aren't subjective. By the numbers he's a bottom 30% defenseman this season. You're comparing him favorably to Rasmus Andersson. I'd suggest you listen and learn. Andersson has been a top 20 analytic defenseman for about 4 years now. He's more in the Toews category than a 4-5 type like Byram who trails players like Zadorov.

I immediately tune out when someone quotes Ben Shapiro.

 

[johnnystormcgy]

Does he want to stay? I don't think you trade him this year. You probably see where he's at in a year or 2 and then make your decision then. Of course if someone wants to blow your socks off you let them.

We likely have fundamental differences on the direction the Flames should be going in the future (Currently I'm not down for the scorched earth approach, but we will see how the Flames draft over next 2 years).

 

[Double Dion]

We likely have fundamental differences on the direction the Flames should be going in the future (Currently I'm not down for the scorched earth approach, but we will see how the Flames draft over next 2 years).

I just think the players you should be moving this season are unquestionably Tanev, Hanifin and (already moved) Lindholm. You don't really have to move anyone else now. I'd seriously consider moving Markstrom and Kadri (if possible) as well, but the offer would need to be solid for Markstrom.
I'd move anyone on the team for an above market offer honestly. But I'm not looking to move anyone else. Then you see where you're at. If a couple of prospects go off you can have a short re-tool as you have your core. If you miss on your picks I don't know what else you do but rebuild entirely.

I just don't think it's smart to lock yourself into a direction before you have to. Trying to do a 2-3 year turn around without getting core pieces is a recipe for more seasons like the past 2. Scorching the earth before knowing if it's necessary is potentially more pain than is needed. See what happens. Hope our scouts don't miss.

Our goaltending is what sucks in Colorado. But I could see Calgary giving up fewer goals. Less talent, bog down the games. Make them low scoring boring affairs.


I immediately tune out when someone quotes Ben Shapiro.

I don't know what you're referencing with Ben Shapiro, as you might have guessed I'm Canadian. I know who he is, but don't really follow American commentators. All political news is honestly not news anymore and just designed to polarize people on both sides. San Jose certainly gets lit up, Chicago too. Neither team has more than 2 top 4 defensemen. Calgary still has 5 of them.

 

[crackdown44]

He's worth about the same as Hanifin. Andersson isn't a #1, we shouldn't be giving him #1 money.

Depends on your definition of what a #1 is. He’s not a Makar/Hedman/McAvoy etc but there aren’t 32 defensemen better than him either

 

[Double Dion]

Depends on your definition of what a #1 is. He’s not a Makar/Hedman/McAvoy etc but there aren’t 32 defensemen better than him either

I kind of think we have 3 top pairing/all situation defensemen in Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson. There probably aren't 32 defensemen better than them, but they are all in the back half of that 32 somewhere.

 

[crackdown44]

I kind of think we have 3 top pairing/all situation defensemen in Weegar, Hanifin and Andersson. There probably aren't 32 defensemen better than them, but they are all in the back half of that 32 somewhere.

I think there’s probably 20 that are definitely better than them and then you could probably make a bunch of different cases for guys in the 20-40 range

 

[crazyfisherman]

I never said Andersson for Mittelstadt is fair value

I'm just saying normal 60+ point RFA centers return more than Tyson Barrie (Reinhart was playing center at a 60 point pace when he returned a 1st and Devon Levi, and his value was down because he demanded a trade). PLD had 63 points and look what he returned. Mittelstadt is on pace for 65 points, and he isn't coming off back to back playoff ending suspensions like Kadri was.

PLD was what 21/22 when he was traded and had 1c potential, mittelstad is 25. Reinhart is a good comparable, and hes better than mittelstad at the time of trade (trade request sure, whatever), late 1st and a goalie prospect, thats worse than a flawed top 4 offensive D coming off 59 pts in barrie. I dont think im the one whose valuations off here.

 

[Alienblood]

I also feel like if Johansen was flanked by Landeskog/Lehkonen and Nichushkin we’re talking a lot less about Colorado needing to add a forward

Well Landeskog and Nichushkin are the Avs 1st line wingers.