Confirmed Trade: [BUF/MIN] Scandella, Pominville, 4th Round Pick for Ennis, Foligno, 3rd Round Pick

[TaLoN]

No, at worst, we lost 47 points out of our lineup to save a million dollars.

Value wise, if that mil gets us to the point we need to lock up Granlund and Nino? Is a wash as I said. If he returns to form as well, than it's a net gain for us.

 

[OkimLom]

I don't care about Pominville's point totals if he doesn't score goals. He's a goal scorer with no other notable skills other than his shot. He was playing a protected role with protected minutes and benefited greatly in Wild's hot streak. Wild was a hot team throughout majority of last season, that was despite of Pominville, not because of him.

But we don't need to debate about this anymore. I'm happy he's gone, you're happy you acquired him. You'll get to see for yourself what kind of a player he has become. If he scores 30+ goals next season, I'm both happy for him and happy for Sabres for the steal.

So if he is getting points that means goals are happening. Whether hes assisting to score goals or scoring them himself, how can it be looked at as anything but positive?

To say hes a goal scorer and he has no other notable skills is hilarious when you look and see he hasn't had more goals than assists in any season since he went 19 goals and 7 assists in his 05-06 AHL season in Rochester. Every other year he played he either tied his assist totals with goals(13-14), or had more assists than goals and multiple years he had double digit difference of assists to goals.

He's more likely to get 30+ assists(9 times in his career;3 times in the past 4 seasons) than goals(3 times in his career; 1 time in the past 4 seasons).

 

[Bronson]

If Foligno magically transforms into a top-6 power forward then this is fair, otherwise it is a truly awful trade for Minnesota.

 

[57special]

Poms is a smart player, who has adjusted his game to his declining physical skills. The 47 points he got were when he was being shifted around the lineup, and not gifted top minutes like he was earlier in his tenure with the Wild. He is almost the perfect pickup for the Sabres. Smart, veteran forward with great character( who also wants to be there) who can show the talented young lads how to comport themselves. He's like that character in the " Sneakers" episode in Seinfeld. When a goal is announced, he always somehow seems to find his way onto the scoring line to get credit, even though you can't remember what he did till you look at the replay. You might call it luck, till you realize he has been doing this his entire career.

Not trying to make him out to be a great player, though he used to be really good, but he is a bloody star compared to what the Wild got back. Poms might be much older, but he is an ironman compared to Ennis.

 

[57special]

Not in Minnesota he wasn't. 3rd line player.

Poms was 26 th in points for RW's. Technically, that's first line production. This isn't the 80's anymore. Scoring is hard, like in the original six days.

 

[57special]

The problem with Vanek was that he wouldn't even give effort at all to one half of the ice - he'd go all dead battery controller on the play. Think of Ennis like a young Zucker defensively. Everyone was so willing to overlook his mistakes, even though they were bonehead mistakes, because he tried and the team around was able to handle it because he didn't completely abandon the play.

Zucker eventually turned into a pretty good defender as time went on as well.

Not saying Ennis will become a decent defender like Zucker, but he can become at least as painless as he was when he was the liability he was.

Zucker was 22 or so at that time. Ennis is 27. If he hasn't figured it out by then now he never will. And Zucker isn't big, but he's a hell of a lot bigger than Ennis, and FAR faster.

 

[Bazeek]

Poms was 26 th in points for RW's. Technically, that's first line production. This isn't the 80's anymore. Scoring is hard, like in original six days.

He did very well with 3rd line time on a team that was 2nd in goals and 5th in points last season. I don't think he was a passenger, but I'll be curious to see if he can reproduce the numbers in Buffalo.

Still, even if his production slumps he can be a stabilizing influence of sorts on a young team.

 

[57special]

Getting rid of Pominville isn't a loss. His value is well beyond negative. If it wasn't, Fletcher would've traded him for actual asset.

It actually cost us Scandella to get rid of Pominville, the way I see it. And from all the top 4 potential d-men the Wild had, Scandella was the obvious choice to move. He was at his best 2 years ago, ever since that he has slowly deteriorated and is far from the d-man that people, for some reason, think he is. While I don't hate him or think he's a bad player, he's just too expensive for bottom 2 d-pairing in Wild.

I'll rephrase: If Foligno has indeed be given QO and it's 2.5 and he accepts it, then it's not the end of the world. We've given far worse money to bottom line wingers in the past. Just ask Vanek, Pominville and Heatley. If he doesn't accept and looks elsewhere, I want to take this time to thank Foligno for his time with the Wild.

If you think Pominville and his 47 points is a negative, then what do you think Ennis is? I could understand if he was making 2M, or BUF was retaining, but the dude makes 4.6M! Only way this makes sense is if ;

Ennis is LTIR( unlikely)

Ennis is bought out, at a slightly lower rate than Poms.

One wonders what return the Wild could've had in picks/ prospects if they had retained 2M on Poms.

 

[Jugitsu]

So if he is getting points that means goals are happening. Whether hes assisting to score goals or scoring them himself, how can it be looked at as anything but positive?

To say hes a goal scorer and he has no other notable skills is hilarious when you look and see he hasn't had more goals than assists in any season since he went 19 goals and 7 assists in his 05-06 AHL season in Rochester. Every other year he played he either tied his assist totals with goals(13-14), or had more assists than goals and multiple years he had double digit difference of assists to goals.

He's more likely to get 30+ assists(9 times in his career;3 times in the past 4 seasons) than goals(3 times in his career; 1 time in the past 4 seasons).

To me, he's a goal scorer. Or was. He has scored +30 goals 3 times in his career and 20+ goals 4 times. His playmaking is mediocre at best, nothing fancy. He doesn't really make plays, he sucks at cycling the puck and has become hesitant to shoot. And if he does shoot, he misses the net more often than not.

And by notable skills, I mean defensive skills for an example. If he's not scoring goals, he's pretty much not doing anything. His skating ability limits his ability to backcheck, or effectively forecheck. He doesn't throw his weight around or take the body in anyway. Like I said, he benefited greatly from the Wild's hot streak. Year before he scored a whopping 11 goals (36 points). All this for 5.6 million. He has no business in Wild's top 6 and everyone and their mothers understand that you simply cannot have a 5.6 million forward playing bottom 6 role, and not doing a very good job at it.

If you think Pominville and his 47 points is a negative, then what do you think Ennis is? I could understand if he was making 2M, or BUF was retaining, but the dude makes 4.6M! Only way this makes sense is if ;

Ennis is LTIR( unlikely)

Ennis is bought out, at a slightly lower rate than Poms.

One wonders what return the Wild could've had in picks/ prospects if they had retained 2M on Poms.

Pominville and 13 goals for 5.6 million is negative. I don't want to repeat everything I have wrote about him in the past, so just read the summary above. That's my view on him and I'm very glad he's finally gone.

Regarding the rest of the trade, like I said I'm not excited about Ennis. Wish we didn't have to take him, but we did. Maybe Fletcher has something in his mind we don't know about yet.

If Pominville alone had any value, Fletcher would've surely unloaded him for pretty much any pick imaginable. But it took someone like Scandella to move Pominville and get Foligno. Taking Ennis' contract means we didn't get the full cap relief possible but I don't think Buffalo was going to take Pominville without them getting rid of Ennis, since they are somewhat struggling with cap as well.

Don't really know and can only speculate until all is said and done.

 

[57special]

you're talking a lot, and ignoring Pominville's 47 points. It's absurd. Maybe in your world we can ignore assists, but in the real world they matter. To deny that he is an above average playmaker is willful blindness. Another player who gets a lot of assists on the Wild is Granlund. Should we ignore those, too?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Jason Pominville has top tier second line production in terms of all forwards. In terms of his actual position at RW, well he is still a RW1 and not just a fringe one, but a quality RW1.


The past 4 years at his position :

16-17: 25th
15-16: 40th
14-15: 18th
13-14: 10th

Cumulatively: 16th among RW scoring 2013-2017. Outside of one season he has been a proven RW1 and the one year he wasn't he was an upper tier RW2. Tyler Ennis is a broken hockey player. He has never cracked 50 points. If he returns to form though he can be a quality 20-25-45 type player. I wish him well and hope he rebounds but at the end of the day Pominville is much better then Ennis. Paying an extra million is well worth it. Yes Pominville would be better if his AAV was $4 mil a season, not 5.6. But I gladly pay him 5.6 if it means getting out of paying Ennis $4.6 mil per season to miss half the year and put up a .25 ppg the ones he actually plays in.

I'm shocked Minnesota got so little. All we heard on this board was how quality proven top 4 D were worth so much in trades and that it's impossible to find one far cheap. The fact that Scandella is only going to be 28 throughout the whole 17-18 season, has 3 years left at only 4 mil and the best they could do was get Foligno and a 3rd is mind boggling. The Wild won't even save that much. They sent out $10.6 mil and brought back $4.6 mil + whatever Foligno gets. His QO was $2.5 mil so at the bare minimum Ennis and Foligno will cost them $7.1 mil. It's likely Foligno gets closer to $3 mil especially long term. I know they mainly needed cap space but I'm shocked they couldn't find a taker for Pominville + Scandella for mainly futures and maybe one roster player making 2-3 million.

So far Jason Botterill has added a proven top 4 dman who is arguably the Sabres second best dman, a legit RW1, and a #5 dman in Beaulieu who has long term #3 potential for just Foligno, Ennis, a 3rd and then downgrading a 3rd to a 4th. He has done a damn good job so far.

 

[Jugitsu]

you're talking a lot, and ignoring Pominville's 47 points. It's absurd. Maybe in your world we can ignore assists, but in the real world they matter. To deny that he is an above average playmaker is willful blindness. Another player who gets a lot of assists on the Wild is Granlund. Should we ignore those, too?

The difference between Pominville and Granlund is the fact that Granlund is a more dynamic playmaker who makes plays happen. He creates scoring chances for his linemates and pushes himself to tight spots, maybe sometimes too much for his own good. Pominville on the other hand is very passive and the bottom 6 lines were scoring despite Pominville, not because of him. If Granlund doesn't score goals, he does a lot of other things right. You can't really say the same for Pominville.

But I'm pretty much done debating this since everything said is highly irrelevant at this point. Pommer is gone and I'm happy. Maybe he starts finding the net again and good for him if he does. But I'm not going to be surprised if he finds himself playing a diminished role with diminished minutes and not scoring a lot, not even assists.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Don't wanna bash JP, because the guy is a class act and a good hockey player.

So I won't.

But in a cap-driven game, the Wild are in a much better spot: they got younger, and less expensive players that can step right in and contribute.

Compare what the Wild lost to Chicago over the years: Byfuglien, prime Ladd, Saad, Sharp, Versteeg, etc.

When Koivu's hit come off the books, and Vanek's buyout expires at season's end, suddenly the Wild will be competely liberated from cap restraints with a pretty good team going forward.

 

[rynryn]

not sure why some people insist on trying to convince perfectly content people how depressed they should be.

Pominville makes you happy? Wonderful! He was a favorite topic of malcontents among Wild fans. (deserved or not--i'm in the "not" camp) At worst then (insomuch as it effects the general mood of wild fans) we just traded for a new whipping boy in Ennis.

BB wanted more aggression. Stewie was the only guy we had running around messing with people last year (aside from Zucker when he got pissed) so that was definitely going to get addressed one way or the other. We needed cap relief. We needed to keep all our young top 9 forwards (that's why we went 7-3 after all). We needed to retain four top four defensemen, and fill in a couple bottom six F slots.

Finding a young center with top six potential to compliment JEE was a pretty long-shot pipe dream and even longer of a shot if you don't do anything that runs contrary to the above points.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I am going to sound like a broken record here. But another move I like from Botterill. Scandella will thrive under Housley's system of involving D men on the attack.

 

[rynryn]

there aren't too many teams in the league where the addition of scandella wouldn't benefit the team.