Post-Game Talk: Bucky stands tall: 6-1 Jets

[folix]

Thorburn was useless and Ehlers was completely useless, again. One assist on PP doesn't make any difference.

Thorburn has that affect on talent.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I believe it has to do with Scheifele hiring Oats as skill development coach. As an aside Oats would make it three coaches that Scheifele is now paying out of his own pocket. The kid is serious about improving.

THAT is how you improve and quickly. You can fumble around for a few years or learn from someone now.

He's a great kid and will continue to grow as a player with this type of attitude.

 

[kylbaz]

LLW
Perreault/Scheif/Staff
Ehlers/Burmi/Petan
Thorburn/Copp/Lowry/Peluso

That's what it should be.

 

[GJF]

LLW
Perreault/Scheif/Staff
Ehlers/Burmi/Petan
Thorburn/Copp/Lowry/Peluso

That's what it should be.

You can't roll two rookies with Burmistrov in a 3rd line role. Sure they'd score a couple of great goals but they'd probably give up a lot more on the other side of the rink. Maybe next season, but certainly not this season.

 

[Duke749]

I wanna mention how much I loved Peluso getting that goal. So happy for the guy. Has improved over the years with the Jets and looks to be starting to become a decent 4th liner. Loved the set up by Copp and glad he got a point on that play. Kid is becoming a glue guy on his line. Bodes well down the road.

 

[Derfel*]

I wanna mention how much I loved Peluso getting that goal. So happy for the guy. Has improved over the years with the Jets and looks to be starting to become a decent 4th liner. Loved the set up by Copp and glad he got a point on that play. Kid is becoming a glue guy on his line. Bodes well down the road.

Agreed - he's working hard in his limited ice time to prove he belongs. The goal was certainly nice too. In a game where you knew no Leafs player was going to drop 'em, he stayed relevant.

 

[jamiebez]

This is what frustrates me about this team. This scenario and others like it, where if someone comes in in and emergency callup situation and plays lights out and is clearly an upgrade, management is more than likely going to go with the same old same old because we're 'loyal'.

It's professional sports, the players need to realize that in order to play you have to be the best available at your position.

It would be a travesty if Helle plays incredible for two months, gets the team back into contention, then has to go back to the AHL because of 'loyalty'.

It hasn't even happened yet, and it bugs me!

Well, you've got another month or 2 to prepare yourself, because it will happen when Pavelec comes back.

It's not about loyalty, it's just about waiver eligibility and a 23-man roster. Carrying 3 goalies is almost never done. Hutch would be a risk to clear waivers if he gets sent down, and (rightly or wrongly) the organization would NEVER send Pavelec down.

The think the only possibility worth talking about is if they trade Hutchinson, and roll with Pavelec + Hellebuyck a year ahead of schedule. I say "ahead of schedule" because I think this is our most likely goalie tandem next year.

 

[GJF]

Well, you've got another month or 2 to prepare yourself, because it will happen when Pavelec comes back.

It's not about loyalty, it's just about waiver eligibility and a 23-man roster. Carrying 3 goalies is almost never done. Hutch would be a risk to clear waivers if he gets sent down, and (rightly or wrongly) the organization would NEVER send Pavelec down.

The think the only possibility worth talking about is if they trade Hutchinson, and roll with Pavelec + Hellebuyck a year ahead of schedule. I say "ahead of schedule" because I think this is our most likely goalie tandem next year.

and? I really don't get your (and other user's) fear of sending Hutch down.

If Hellebuyck has proven to be long-term ready for the NHL, there is no need for Hutchinson anyway.

Hutch passes waivers: We'd have Pavelec and Hellebuyck on the Jets and Hutchinson and Comrie on the Moose. No AHL team needs a 25 (26 in march) year old guy that has proven to be too good for the AHL long term and a very good prospect who needs playing time. They are actively blocking each other. For 16/17, you'd actually want to trade Hutchinson because of that since Helly and Pavelec are the guys to go with in the NHL.

Hutch gets claimed: We'd have Pavelec and Hellebuyck on the Jets and Comrie and Jussi on the Moose. Comrie is the go-to guy for the rest of the season (there won't be any post season this year for the Moose obviously) and next season on the Moose team - which is a good thing. Comrie needs those minutes in order to develope. Hellebuyck and Pavelec can share starts just like Pavs and Hutch did over the last 50ish games did. After 16/17, Pavs is gone and Helly our new clear #1 starting goaltender. Sign a proven, experienced guy in FA for the back-up role.

 

[Gotaf7]

Another point to Ehlers:

I think it's quite interesting to watch his decision making. At the start of the season, he took 9/10 shots when he had the chance to fire it. He was successful by scoring 4 goals over the first 10 games. Then the league started to respect him more and have more of an eye for him out there. His space in the o-zone has diminished very fast and he couldn't adjust quick enough to the new situation. Meanwhile, because he stopped scoring goals, he was dropped to the third line because his line started to struggle and his struggling didn't help at all. Since then, like 3-4 games ago, he's starting to get more comfortable again but now he's on a line on which he doesn't have Perreault and Scheifele around him that create space for him and set him up. He has to work a lot more in order to create offensive scoring chances with Thorburn and Burmistrov with him. His mind has to be a lot more on "working" instead of "find the space to be in a dangerous position and then fire it". Those combined points + the fact of his goal scoring having dropped, make him think and hesitate a lot more which result to him getting into situations,in which he passes instead of being suppose to shoot and shoot when he's supposed to pass.

This is the reason why I'd like to see him on the first line at one point in time, when the time is right. I'd love to try:

Ehlers - Little - Wheeler
Perreault - Scheifele - Stafford
Ladd - Burmistrov - Thorburn

unfortunately it won't happen because it would probably hurt the locker room chemistry to put down your captain on the third line with Burmi and Thorburn. I think, based on pure performance and line chemistry based on what the players do, it would make a lot of sense. Thorburn and Burmistrov work a lot but don't want to shoot it. Ladd doesn't work/create a lot (at least right now, I have no idea why) but shoots it every time he gets the opportunity. His goal scoring is pretty much the only thing being on his regular performance pace this year (7 goals in 26 games resulting in 66 shots taken and a sh% of 10.6% ... 10.7% last year), so why not use those factors?

Ehlers looks like a deer in the headlights in the DZ and NZ, putting him on the first line playing against other first lines in the league would be a disaster. If they could send him down he would be wearing a set of moose antlers, will be a good player right now he is not.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Ehlers looks like a deer in the headlights in the DZ and NZ, putting him on the first line playing against other first lines in the league would be a disaster. If they could send him down he would be wearing a set of moose antlers, will be a good player right now he is not.

I don't see the same things the same way you do.

 

[jamiebez]

and? I really don't get your (and other user's) fear of sending Hutch down.

If Hellebuyck has proven to be long-term ready for the NHL, there is no need for Hutchinson anyway.

Hutch passes waivers: We'd have Pavelec and Hellebuyck on the Jets and Hutchinson and Comrie on the Moose. No AHL team needs a 25 (26 in march) year old guy that has proven to be too good for the AHL long term and a very good prospect who needs playing time. They are actively blocking each other. For 16/17, you'd actually want to trade Hutchinson because of that since Helly and Pavelec are the guys to go with in the NHL.

Hutch gets claimed: We'd have Pavelec and Hellebuyck on the Jets and Comrie and Jussi on the Moose. Comrie is the go-to guy for the rest of the season (there won't be any post season this year for the Moose obviously) and next season on the Moose team - which is a good thing. Comrie needs those minutes in order to develope. Hellebuyck and Pavelec can share starts just like Pavs and Hutch did over the last 50ish games did. After 16/17, Pavs is gone and Helly our new clear #1 starting goaltender. Sign a proven, experienced guy in FA for the back-up role.

I think Hutch would almost certainly not clear. He makes damn near minimum wage, he's got a year of RFA left and is AT LEAST a #2 on 25 teams in the league.

And, there's a market for him, either when Pavelec gets back or in the summer. Talbot got a 2nd + 3rd this past summer, Jones got a 1st and Lehner got a 1st. If we lose him on waivers in February, that's a hell of a lot of assets to throw away.

If Hellebuyck single-handedly gets us to a playoff position in the next month or two, I'd trade Hutch to try and improve the team's playoff chances and go with Pav/Helle this year and next. If there is any other outcome between now and Pavelec coming back, I send Helle down. Which isn't the end of the world.

 

[Gm0ney]

Ok I am a bit of a funkster (that is a really old hipster from the funk generation) but can someone explain all the Adam Oats-Mark Scheifele man crush references from the sportsnet boys?

I thought it was a dominant game by Schiefele on a night the Leafs sucked.

Well according to the headline of this article, they're apparently making "sweet music" together - and as a funkster, you should know what that means...

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/11/28/scheifele-oates-to-make-sweet-music

 

[Whileee]

Ehlers looks like a deer in the headlights in the DZ and NZ, putting him on the first line playing against other first lines in the league would be a disaster. If they could send him down he would be wearing a set of moose antlers, will be a good player right now he is not.

I disagree. Ehlers is actually very calm and smart with the puck in all zones. He makes very good decisions, has decent positioning, and is very efficient at zone exit and zone entry. He gets beaten in board battles, but that's not such a big deal in his position/role.

 

[Gm0ney]

I think Hutch would almost certainly not clear. He makes damn near minimum wage, he's got a year of RFA left and is AT LEAST a #1 on 25 teams in the league.

And, there's a market for him, either when Pavelec gets back or in the summer. Talbot got a 2nd + 3rd this past summer, Jones got a 1st and Lehner got a 1st. If we lose him on waivers in February, that's a hell of a lot of assets to throw away.

If Hellebuyck single-handedly gets us to a playoff position in the next month or two, I'd trade Hutch to try and improve the team's playoff chances and go with Pav/Helle this year and next. If there is any other outcome between now and Pavelec coming back, I send Helle down. Which isn't the end of the world.

Unless some team has an injury to a goalie or a really terrible backup, I don't think Hutch would get claimed on waivers. But Pavelec is totally waiver-proof...unless maybe Derfel is hired as an NHL GM in the next few weeks...

 

[papasan]

Biggest change I've seen in Scheifele this year? He can now go into corners without being knocked on his ass. There was a time when a player would skate by him and he would fall down, no more. If this is a by-product from Oats coaching him then "THANK YOU"

 

[Huffer]

I believe it has to do with Scheifele hiring Oats as skill development coach. As an aside Oats would make it three coaches that Scheifele is now paying out of his own pocket. The kid is serious about improving.

The kids work ethic is off the charts. Fully committed to his fitness as evident in his work with Roberts and the gains he's made. He's a "first one on, last guy off" type of guy, and now is paying additional coaches, and a former top end NHL centre to boot, to help him improve.

Seriously, I hope we're able to lock him up for 8 years on his next deal. Actually, I'd love 3 and then 8, but I'll settle for a guaranteed 8 and not having to worry about a contract after a bridge.

He should be wearing a letter soon IMO.

 

[Derfel*]

Unless some team has an injury to a goalie or a really terrible backup, I don't think Hutch would get claimed on waivers. But Pavelec is totally waiver-proof...unless maybe Derfel is hired as an NHL GM in the next few weeks...

Why would I claim him? He's a below-average goalie with a poor contract. Unless I was trying to tank and meet league minimum payroll, I don't see a reason to claim him on waivers.

Hutch will be sent down when Pavelec returns, barring a complete collapse by Hellebuyck.

 

[GJF]

I think Hutch would almost certainly not clear. He makes damn near minimum wage, he's got a year of RFA left and is AT LEAST a #1 on 25 teams in the league.

And, there's a market for him, either when Pavelec gets back or in the summer. Talbot got a 2nd + 3rd this past summer, Jones got a 1st and Lehner got a 1st. If we lose him on waivers in February, that's a hell of a lot of assets to throw away.

If Hellebuyck single-handedly gets us to a playoff position in the next month or two, I'd trade Hutch to try and improve the team's playoff chances and go with Pav/Helle this year and next. If there is any other outcome between now and Pavelec coming back, I send Helle down. Which isn't the end of the world.

What makes you think that? Right now he's #1 on 0 teams in the league IMO. This could change until January/February, sure. Don't forget that those teams have their own duo of goaltenders which they have to handle and maybe don't want to give up on. It wouldn't be the offseason and Hutchinson wouldn't exactly be the kind of goaltender you trade for to "make a push for the playoffs". The way it stands right now, I'd bet you money that he won't bring back more than a 3rd. Players that are about to get send down normally don't have ANY trading value. The other 29 GMs aren't blind and know what would be going on here. Why trade for him if he'll be on waivers in a week or two?

If they accomplish to trade him when Pavs gets back and Helly has established himself, even better. But in my scenario of sending him down you obviously couldn't find a buyer.

If Helly makes us fight for the playoffs in February, it actually would be one of the worst possible scenarios to send him down because of waivers. No way they would risk their playoff chances because of Hutchinson having to pass waivers.

 

[Ducky10]

The kids work ethic is off the charts. Fully committed to his fitness as evident in his work with Roberts and the gains he's made. He's a "first one on, last guy off" type of guy, and now is paying additional coaches, and a former top end NHL centre to boot, to help him improve.

Seriously, I hope we're able to lock him up for 8 years on his next deal. Actually, I'd love 3 and then 8, but I'll settle for a guaranteed 8 and not having to worry about a contract after a bridge.

He should be wearing a letter soon IMO.

It's be nice if some of that rubbed off on Jake, if Trouba had half of Chef's work ethic the guy would be dominant.

 

[Huffer]

It's be nice if some of that rubbed off on Jake, if Trouba had half of Chef's work ethic the guy would be dominant.

Can't argue with that.

 

[RustyCat]

It's be nice if some of that rubbed off on Jake, if Trouba had half of Chef's work ethic the guy would be dominant.

Stuff that I have read suggests that he already does have a similar moxie when it comes to conditioning. These kids are surrounded by guys like Wheeler, Stuart, Thorburn, Peluso, and Ladd that are workhorses off the ice.

Trouba is growing into his game and reminds me a bit of a Pronger-lite.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I think Hutch would almost certainly not clear. He makes damn near minimum wage, he's got a year of RFA left and is AT LEAST a #1 on 25 teams in the league.

Maybe if Hutch has 25 moms and they are all GMs for different NHL teams.

A question: If he is AT LEAST a #1, and #2 is worse, are you saying he can be a #0??

 

[Ducky10]

Stuff that I have read suggests that he already does have a similar moxie when it comes to conditioning. These kids are surrounded by guys like Wheeler, Stuart, Thorburn, Peluso, and Ladd that are workhorses off the ice.

Trouba is growing into his game and reminds me a bit of a Pronger-lite.

They aren't in the off season and Scheifele looks way more physically ready than Trouba to me. Trouba is an impressive player, he makes up for a lot with his abilities and the edge with which he plays, imagine what he would be like if he was as conditioned as Chef.

 

[GJF]

They aren't in the off season and Scheifele looks way more physically ready than Trouba to me. Trouba is an impressive player, he makes up for a lot with his abilities and the edge with which he plays, imagine what he would be like if he was as conditioned as Chef.

Kind of unfair to Trouba since Scheifele is one year older and was as ripped and fit coming into traininc camp only this year. Last year he didn't look special in those regards. So if you want to compare them 1:1, you'd have to wait until this time next year.

 

[jamiebez]

What makes you think that? Right now he's #1 on 0 teams in the league IMO. This could change until January/February, sure. Don't forget that those teams have their own duo of goaltenders which they have to handle and maybe don't want to give up on. It wouldn't be the offseason and Hutchinson wouldn't exactly be the kind of goaltender you trade for to "make a push for the playoffs". The way it stands right now, I'd bet you money that he won't bring back more than a 3rd. Players that are about to get send down normally don't have ANY trading value. The other 29 GMs aren't blind and know what would be going on here. Why trade for him if he'll be on waivers in a week or two?

If they accomplish to trade him when Pavs gets back and Helly has established himself, even better. But in my scenario of sending him down you obviously couldn't find a buyer.

If Helly makes us fight for the playoffs in February, it actually would be one of the worst possible scenarios to send him down because of waivers. No way they would risk their playoff chances because of Hutchinson having to pass waivers.

Maybe if Hutch has 25 moms and they are all GMs for different NHL teams.

A question: If he is AT LEAST a #1, and #2 is worse, are you saying he can be a #0??

Typo by me: meant #2

GJF: your last sentence is my point - if he's gotten us into the playoffs when Pavelec comes back, then it's at least a hard decision. Even then, I think his only chance of staying up is if Hutch self-destructs and Helle has been a dominant #1 and has played most of the games.

He was meant to be the #3 this year, and his contract and the roster limit works against him. He's got to overwhelmingly prove he's the man if he wants the team to take the risk on losing Hutch.