Speculation: Bucky agrees to 6 years...who's next?

[Mortimer Snerd]

So the Habs just re-signed Phillip Danault for 3 years with an AAV of 3.083. Where does that move the needle for Lowry?

I think it moves it to just about 3x3.083.

 

[buggs]

Depends on whether one accepts that actions speak louder than words. I’m still not sold on Trouba wanting to play here. Sure he’s said some nice words about wanting to stay but his actions are the holdout/trade demand. One might or might not give credence to the 8 million per year contract demand. Either way, I’ll believe he actually wants to stay here at an appropriate salary when I see it.

I’d rather we trade him for assets and sign Morrissey. I don’t think Trouba is worth anything near what he seems to think he’s worth and would hate to see Jets handcuffed. He may be asking 8 just as a way out — purposely ask for something you know the Jets will never pay is a way out.

I'm quite certain and comfortable that the Trouba camp started at $8 million. I'm also pretty confident that the Jets started around $4. Nobody starts negotiations where they want or expect to end up. I know you get that but I'm not certain everyone does given how much I've seen that statement thrown about.

I'm in the same boat as many around here: I want Trouba to stay and I'm uncertain if that's what he wants to do. The results of the next few days will pretty clearly indicate his intentions: if he goes through arbitration then he is leaving. If he signs a deal then clearly not (though it won't stop the speculation that a trade request was made, whether that actually happens or not). Though I expect if he signs a 4-5 year deal we'll just continue the same conversation for the next 4-5 years about Trouba wanting out.

 

[Trinity]

I'm quite certain and comfortable that the Trouba camp started at $8 million. I'm also pretty confident that the Jets started around $4. Nobody starts negotiations where they want or expect to end up. I know you get that but I'm not certain everyone does given how much I've seen that statement thrown about.

I'm in the same boat as many around here: I want Trouba to stay and I'm uncertain if that's what he wants to do. The results of the next few days will pretty clearly indicate his intentions: if he goes through arbitration then he is leaving. If he signs a deal then clearly not (though it won't stop the speculation that a trade request was made, whether that actually happens or not). Though I expect if he signs a 4-5 year deal we'll just continue the same conversation for the next 4-5 years about Trouba wanting out.

Considering the Jets offered him $5.5 million a couple years ago, I highly doubt their stating offer was $4 million this time around. I'd say it was more like $5.5-6 million.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Nothing was league imposed. What are you talking about? After his holdout the bridge deal was put together pretty quickly to get him back with the team. We never heard squat about what was or wasn't offered. As bridge deals go it was actually toward the high end. There was no haircut.

I meant he more than likely took less money by signing short term rather than long term. He was hoping and will likely get further riches in the future by signing short term.
Since he was still under Jets NHL control and not available for arbitration two summers, the CBA does kinda control what he salary will be.....unless there was an offer sheet or Trouba had an offer from the KHL.
He wasn't a holdout, he had no contract, he had the ability to make a deal with any team in the NHL or any other league. An NHL offer sheet meant compensation and the fear by Trouba that the Jets would match and he would be Jet longer than another four years.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I feel a signing is imminent. Someone in the next few hours? With the arbitration dates being set, has anyone changed their minds on the next signing?

I had assumed Morrissey, but with the first arbitration date set for this Friday, Chevy likely has his mind elsewhere.

#NHLJets arbitration hearing dates:
July 20 - Jacob Troba
July 22 - Adam Lowry
July 25 - Brandon Tanev
July 30 - Marko Dano

Connor Hellebuyck's was scheduled for July 27, but won't be necessary now.

Of all the arbitration cases, my thoughts are Trouba is the only one that may go to arbitration.

Despite some here calling for $8 million, I think there are no comparables that get him anywhere near this figure. Anyone think Trouba will wait until next season to sign his long term deal & attempts to prove his worth this season?

If so get set for a hundreds upon hundreds of the "sky is falling" threads for the next year.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Considering the Jets offered him $5.5 million a couple years ago, I highly doubt their stating offer was $4 million this time around. I'd say it was more like $5.5-6 million.

Curious if this number was widely reported and from a reputable source?

Seems a very high AAV for two years ago when he had 4 RFA years left. If anything Trouba's ask was for that number & the Jets had countered for far less.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I still don't follow what you are trying to say.

The CBA doesn't specify salary. He was a holdout.

The important thing that is missing is any knowledge whatsoever of what Trouba was, or was not offered after his holdout. Chevy may not have given him any long term option by that time. We just don't know. It was not a drawn out complex negotiation. Trouba decided to start playing and the deal was done quickly.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I still don't follow what you are trying to say.

The CBA doesn't specify salary. He was a holdout.

The important thing that is missing is any knowledge whatsoever of what Trouba was, or was not offered after his holdout. Chevy may not have given him any long term option by that time. We just don't know. It was not a drawn out complex negotiation. Trouba decided to start playing and the deal was done quickly.

First, he was NOT a holdout. He had no contract. Under the CBA, a team has to offer a minimum % raise to retain his NHL RFA rights. The Jets did this, so they retained his NHL rights but still Trouba was free to sign with any team in the league as RFA, as defined by an offer sheet.
You're right we will never know what was offered by both parties. By assuming that Trouba was offered a long term deal, certainly not uncommon for good players, Trouba turned it down. Reason for Trouba to get a better contract in near future either by Jets or an arbitrator or being a UFA in the summer of 2020.
But it seemed to a drawn negotiation. Contract negotiations certainly started in July at the latest and weren't concluded till after the season started in October.
This summer it certainly appears Trouba has the option of either signing a long term contract for certainty or signing short term and hoping for greater riches in the future.
Actually I think the Leafs are having the same issues with Nylander with his contract. Leafs probably would love to have signed long term. Nylander just might want a shorter deal and sign in a couple of years when he perceives his value is higher, or just that it gets him closer to being a UFA.

 

[buggs]

Considering the Jets offered him $5.5 million a couple years ago, I highly doubt their stating offer was $4 million this time around. I'd say it was more like $5.5-6 million.

If the Jets did that then the middle ground would be quite a bit higher. I don't think the offer from a few years ago really has much to do with reality, if indeed it happened as such. If I'm Chevy going into negotiations I'm not seeing the Trouba/Overhardt offer at $8 million and countering with $6, too steep a starting point. Certainly my $4 is hyperbole but not much moreso than the T/O $8 million ask. Trouba is not an $8 million dollar a year defenceman at this point in his career, regardless of how many gyrations some media articles might do to twist numbers about. Doughty/Hedman are not his comparables.

The reason I say this is if you think about it from the Trouba standpoint and your ask is $8, jets offer $5.5-6 then you see immediate potential to reach a middle ground of $7, which frankly I think Trouba jumps at given his relative comparables are below that (IMO). So I think while Trouba's ask is high, I think Chevy's initial offer is low, past be damned. Starting high would be foolish on Chevy's part and I do not consider Chevy likely to be foolish in negotiations (Pavelec being the outlier but I expect he has learned since then).

Trouba is asking based on the high falutin' assumptions in that recently linked article that uses p/60 and other measures to suggest he is like Doughty/Hedman. Chevy is rolling into the room with a Reilly-like contract offer, noting his lack of goal scoring at even strength and a history of injuries over his career. The middle ground is where they will or won't meet and a middle ground of $7 seems high to me unless it's something like a 7-8 year deal. You can color me surprised if that happens. I'm just guessing but if it's an arbitration award I think Trouba gets $4.5-5; an actual contract that buys UFA years will depend on the length of term: shorter contract, less money; longer contract, higher AAV. Any multi-year deal has Trouba over $6 but below Buff.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

First, he was NOT a holdout. He had no contract.

You're arguing semantics. It's clear what he meant.

Technically however you are correct with regards to the language being used. I guess you've read this...

It's time for hockey to ban the term 'holdout'

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

First, he was NOT a holdout. He had no contract. Under the CBA, a team has to offer a minimum % raise to retain his NHL RFA rights. The Jets did this, so they retained his NHL rights but still Trouba was free to sign with any team in the league as RFA, as defined by an offer sheet.
You're right we will never know what was offered by both parties. By assuming that Trouba was offered a long term deal, certainly not uncommon for good players, Trouba turned it down. Reason for Trouba to get a better contract in near future either by Jets or an arbitrator or being a UFA in the summer of 2020.
But it seemed to a drawn negotiation. Contract negotiations certainly started in July at the latest and weren't concluded till after the season started in October.
This summer it certainly appears Trouba has the option of either signing a long term contract for certainty or signing short term and hoping for greater riches in the future.
Actually I think the Leafs are having the same issues with Nylander with his contract. Leafs probably would love to have signed long term. Nylander just might want a shorter deal and sign in a couple of years when he perceives his value is higher, or just that it gets him closer to being a UFA.

What do you think a holdout is? Correct, he had no contract. He had been offered a contract. He held out rather than accept that offer. That's what a holdout is. He stayed away from TC and stayed away from the first 20 games of the season.

Trouba almost certainly would have been offered a long term contract before his holdout. He was unwilling at that point to consider any offer. Long term, short term or anything else. There were no negotiations. At the end of the holdout, it was a new ballgame. The only thing we know he was offered was the contract he signed.

Negotiations did not start in July. Trouba, or his manager refused to negotiate. Period. He did not turn down an offer. He refused to consider an offer. The only thing they did was demand a trade. That is not negotiation.

His choice this summer is to either negotiate a contract of some kind with the Jets or go through the arbitration process and accept the arbitrator's award.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm quite certain and comfortable that the Trouba camp started at $8 million. I'm also pretty confident that the Jets started around $4. Nobody starts negotiations where they want or expect to end up. I know you get that but I'm not certain everyone does given how much I've seen that statement thrown about.

I'm in the same boat as many around here: I want Trouba to stay and I'm uncertain if that's what he wants to do. The results of the next few days will pretty clearly indicate his intentions: if he goes through arbitration then he is leaving. If he signs a deal then clearly not (though it won't stop the speculation that a trade request was made, whether that actually happens or not). Though I expect if he signs a 4-5 year deal we'll just continue the same conversation for the next 4-5 years about Trouba wanting out.

Good gawd, NO!

I think I'd rather just trade him and get it over with. But then we will spend the next 10 years debating whether we won the trade or not. Strawmen and ad-hominems flying wildy back and forth, players being massively mis-evaluated, GM's being burned in effigy, oh the humanity!

 

[buggs]

Good gawd, NO!

I think I'd rather just trade him and get it over with. But then we will spend the next 10 years debating whether we won the trade or not. Strawmen and ad-hominems flying wildy back and forth, players being massively mis-evaluated, GM's being burned in effigy, oh the humanity!

What if Stempniak was part of the return?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Considering the Jets offered him $5.5 million a couple years ago, I highly doubt their stating offer was $4 million this time around. I'd say it was more like $5.5-6 million.

Curious if this number was widely reported and from a reputable source?

Seems a very high AAV for two years ago when he had 4 RFA years left. If anything Trouba's ask was for that number & the Jets had countered for far less.

By all that we know, there was never any such offer. If an offer was made, or attempted to be made, we don't know about it. I don't recall there ever being any credible rumours. As far as we know, no offer was either accepted, or rejected. ..... That is according to all we know.

Even if such an offer was made, quoting the AAV without the term is near meaningless. Even if there was a known, specific offer of both AAV and term that doesn't necessarily dictate positions this time around. A lot may have changed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What if Stempniak was part of the return?

That would add elements of nostalgia and fantasy to the endless discussion.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I feel a signing is imminent. Someone in the next few hours? With the arbitration dates being set, has anyone changed their minds on the next signing?

I had assumed Morrissey, but with the first arbitration date set for this Friday, Chevy likely has his mind elsewhere.

Point of order, Mr Speaker. If Trouba signs an arbitration imposed contract, do we consider that a Chevy signing for the purposes of this poll? I don't think we should, in which case I will stand by my pick of Morrissey as Chevy's next "real" signing.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Point of order, Mr Speaker. If Trouba signs an arbitration imposed contract, do we consider that a Chevy signing for the purposes of this poll? I don't think we should, in which case I will stand by my pick of Morrissey as Chevy's next "real" signing.

I'd have assumed Morrissey would be signed by now as well. The fact he's not to me means that Chevy is hard at work with a long term deal being worked out with #8.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I'd have assumed Morrissey would be signed by now as well. The fact he's not to me means that Chevy is hard at work with a long term deal being worked out with #8.

Or Morrissey has asked to be traded and is not entertaining contract offers.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

What do you think a holdout is? Correct, he had no contract. He had been offered a contract. He held out rather than accept that offer. That's what a holdout is. He stayed away from TC and stayed away from the first 20 games of the season.

Trouba almost certainly would have been offered a long term contract before his holdout. He was unwilling at that point to consider any offer. Long term, short term or anything else. There were no negotiations. At the end of the holdout, it was a new ballgame. The only thing we know he was offered was the contract he signed.

Negotiations did not start in July. Trouba, or his manager refused to negotiate. Period. He did not turn down an offer. He refused to consider an offer. The only thing they did was demand a trade. That is not negotiation.

His choice this summer is to either negotiate a contract of some kind with the Jets or go through the arbitration process and accept the arbitrator's award.

Definitely Trouba and his agent were negotiating by not even talking to the Jets. They were hoping the "no contact negotiation" would result in a trade. The CBA in Trouba's case meant the Jets had control of NHL life for seven years....though a offer sheet may have changed that, but the Jets still had the control of accepting or rejecting the offer sheet.
But what you said, makes all kind sense similar what I originally said. And that was, Trouba has shown by his past contract actions that he probably does not want to be a Jet long term.
And all these long contracts to Trouba being proposed by fans, though fair, might be meaningless to Trouba who seem to want free agency as soon as possible.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Definitely Trouba and his agent were negotiating by not even talking to the Jets. They were hoping the "no contact negotiation" would result in a trade. The CBA in Trouba's case meant the Jets had control of NHL life for seven years....though a offer sheet may have changed that, but the Jets still had the control of accepting or rejecting the offer sheet.
But what you said, makes all kind sense similar what I originally said. And that was, Trouba has shown by his past contract actions that he probably does not want to be a Jet long term.
And all these long contracts to Trouba being proposed by fans, though fair, might be meaningless to Trouba who seem to want free agency as soon as possible.

OK.

A take it or leave it stance is not 'negotiating'. It is simply demanding. The word negotiate means an effort to find common ground, a point of mutual agreement or acceptance.

Until proven otherwise, I am accepting that his stance 2 years ago really was about usage. Unlikely as it seemed at the time, everything since has supported that.

If he ends up with an arbitrated contract I will take that as solid evidence that his goal is UFA by the shortest route possible.

 

[Tommigun]

Make a follow up someone! I’m on a roll here, 2/2