That's a good point.TransportedUpstater said:I think people understand that. I just feel a player of Kessel's talent offers more potential "uniqueness" than Toews. I feel it's rarer to find a player of Kessel's pure skill level than a player like Toews.
I am in no way slandering Toews. He'd be on my team in a minute. But I just wouldn't pick him first.
Hockeycanada said:And here is what you don't understand. It isn't Toews role to score goals. His job is to create chances, play a good 2 way game, forecheck, cycle the puck, etc, while Kessel's job is to score goals. These two players are completely different. Toews is doing a great job filling his role, both Bob and Brian Burke and the scouts have alluded to this. On the other hand, in the past few games Kessel is not doing his job. He was completely shut down against Canada. It will be very interesting to see how he plays tonight.
Le Golie said:And yes, I have seen a lot more of Toews than this tournament. I'm from the same city as him, he's been well known around here for some time now.
He didn't build the Canucks. Mike Keenan built that team. Burke came in as they were starting to gel. Burke traded Mogilny for Morrison and that's about it.onice said:If you want to see how good Brian Burke really is take a look at the Vancouver Canucks. That's a team he helped build. With the Ducks, he's been on the job how long? 6-7 months?
Yeah he's already a bustKinbote said:You have to remember this is the guy that picked Bobby Ryan 2nd.
Hockeycanada said:That's a good point.
Again buddy, you cited Anaheims record this year.kingsjohn said:Tell me how he made Vancouver a better team?
Be sure to tell me how he solved their goaltending woes and built their farm system.
Be sure to list his stellar drafting record in Vancouver and also list how he took Hartford over the top.
He did none of these. His pattern of failure is there.
Jon Prescription said:That's definately a good thing then. It's exciting to have a player of his caliber choose the NCAA route over the Canadian juniors route.
You didn't answer my questions...here they are againSammy said:Again buddy, you cited Anaheims record this year.
Get a clue. Your'e embarassing yourself.
What other 'far superior' prospects?King Henry I said:Brian Burke: Drafted Bobby Ryan ahead of Jack Johnson, Gilbert Brule and other far superior prospects.
Brian Burke: Traded Sergei Federov for Tyler Wright and Francis Beauchemin
Does anybody else see a pattern here? Right, and Mike Milbury's the stupid one
Jon Prescription said:"How many forwards are as complete as Toews in this years draft? None."
WOW. That's an arguable statement if there ever was one. Frolik is definately as complete a player and Mueller is just a tiny step below Toews in that aspect.
No one is arguing that Kessel is a defensive stalwart or that his defense is as good as Toews is. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that Toews is the more complete player of the two. Where I see the error is that people are really thinking that Toews is this complete two way player who will dominate on both ends of the ice. I don't see him putting up nearly the amount of points that Kessel will at the professional level, but he will play at both ends of the rink fairly solidly. I mean, if you get a chance to watch either of them at the college level it is pretty easy to see who really has the offensive instincts between the two of them.
At this stage in their careers, Kessel simply owns Toews on the offensive side of the puck. I don't see at all how this little defensive upgrade on Kessel that Toews has can make up for that HUGE difference in the offensive zone that is pretty clear. As I said, Toews is a great prospect and will make the team who drafts him very happy, but he just isn't that dynamic, game breaker that Kessel is. It just isn't Toews game.
I believe he got rid of Feddy.kingsjohn said:Burke's past results speak otherwise. And considering's Anaheim's position in the standings and the cap hell he created, he is helping me make my point.
nomorekids said:I suggest all of you stop slinging dirt at each other and keep it on topic. If I see the word "troll" one more time, or any variant of it, you're getting slapped with 7 points.
Flames Draft Watcher said:Except that it's not at all about who's better now. It's about who will be better in 5 years. With Toews having the edge in size and down the line strength, he may be the beter NHLer. NCAA defensemen aren't the same as NHL defensemen and size and strength play a huge role.
It's not about who's better now, it's about who will be the better NHLer when all is said and done.
Based on limited viewing, I'd take E. Johnson 1st. #1 defensemen are a very rare commodity.
kingsjohn said:You didn't answer my questions...here they are again
Tell me how he made Vancouver a better team?
Be sure to tell me how he solved their goaltending woes and built their farm system.
Be sure to list his stellar drafting record in Vancouver and also list how he took Hartford over the top.
He did none of these. His pattern of failure is there.
You still haven't answered my questions,Sammy said:I believe he got rid of Feddy.
How did he create "cap hell".
And btw, I guess in your world there must be like what, 4 good GM's?
Keep em comin. Its gettin reaaaaaal gooood.
Misos Milakos said:If Frolik and Mueller were as complete as Toews at this point in time, they to would be making a greater run at overtaking Kessel. Maybe they should be.
Kessel is dangerous with time and space, and hopefully he develops some more moves for his sake because as great a talent as he is, the better the defence he faces with what he has shown with his limited bag of tricks, the more difficult time he will have doing what he does best, which is scoring, and if he's not scoring, lets face it, he's not doing much. Think what you will, Toews will be the player who does it all.
TransportedUpstater said:On that note, does anyone know the reasons Toews picked NCAA? I never believed for a minute that Kessel was going to play one shift for Saginaw, but Toews was the #1 pick in his bantam draft.
Can anyone shed some light?
Misos Milakos said:If Frolik and Mueller were as complete as Toews at this point in time, they to would be making a greater run at overtaking Kessel. Maybe they should be.
Kessel is dangerous with time and space, and hopefully he develops some more moves for his sake because as great a talent as he is, the better the defence he faces with what he has shown with his limited bag of tricks, the more difficult time he will have doing what he does best, which is scoring, and if he's not scoring, lets face it, he's not doing much. Think what you will, Toews will be the player who does it all.
Yawn.kingsjohn said:You still haven't answered my questions,
Tell me how he made Vancouver a better team.
Be sure to tell me how he solved their goaltending woes and built their farm system.
Be sure to list his stellar drafting record in Vancouver and also list how he took Hartford over the top.
He did none of these. His pattern of failure is there.
Le Golie said:It was a family decision. Most likely based on the fact that he was drafted by Tri-Cities, and geographically that is pretty much half a continent away from his home town, Winnipeg. UND is exactly a two-hour drive from Winnipeg. Throw in the fact that he gets an education and after a lot of debating the Toews' chose the NCAA. I have heard his mother really encouraged him to go that route.
It will be really interesting to see where his little brother goes. David Toews would have been a first round pick but because of Jonathan's NCAA choice, teams avoided him until the Brandon Wheat Kings gambled in the sixth round. Brandon is the same distance from Winnipeg as Grand Forks, so we'll see what happens down the road.
Isn't his record this year an indication of his ability? I'd say so.Sammy said:Yawn.
You cited Burkes record THIS YEAR.
What dont you understand.
And again, how did he create cap hell?
All the scoring? what did Burke trade away again? Steve Rucchin and Mike Leclerc!kingsjohn said:Ok, so first you attack my objectivity, now you actually want to address the post? Why couldn't you do this the first time?
They are a crappy team, Burke in his arrogance traded all their scoring away for enforcers and now they are paying the price.
Burke has never been a good GM and he never will be. He is a media darling and nothing but that. Why trust the opinion of a less than successful GM?
McDonald19 said:again Burke was hired right before the draft, he did not pick Ryan, his scouts picked Ryan, Burke simply walked up on stage and called the name.