Bryan Burke: 'I would not draft Kessel first overall'

[Daily Special]

ok we get it, anaheim sucks. let's stay on topic instead of hijacking this thread further.

Agreed *whoever that was addressed to.

The topic at hand is Bryan Burke's mental blunders, and rapidly deteriorating vision problems.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Colorado plays twice before Friday
Dallas has beat the Ducks all three times this year

It's within the realm of possibility, but not likely.

Then the Ducks will have more games in hand on Colorado. Even if they lose in Dallas, but beat Minnesota, and Colorado loses to the Preds, which could easily happen, and Phoenix loses to your Kings, which also could easily happen, guess what? Anaheim is better than both teams through the first half of the season(41 games).

 

[Squiddy*]

Kessel is the best player in the tournament that can go one on one with any other player. He showed he can certainly be unselfish at the time, but I seriously doubt that he wont go #1 in the draft. He is still a franchise player and more importantly he could be a marketing machine. What's so special about John Toews? If anything he seems more mediocre than kessel. I agree Johnson is going to be a good pick aswell.

 

[Old Hickory]

$5.5 million? There are about three defenseman that you could say are better than Niedermayer(he's probably better than two or all three, though): Nik Lidstrom, Chris Pronger and Zdeno Chara. Lidstrom and Pronger make more than that(in Lidstrom's case, much more), and Chara most certainly will be. Other debatable top five defenseman, like the Jovocop and Redden, will likely make around that mark after this season, and neither of which have a Norris trophy on their resume's.

Chara makes 3.7 million
So does Redden
Lidstrom signed before the cap.

You asked my opinion, I gave it to you. A top flight d-man outside of Neids hasn't signed a contract in the new NHL, so there is no control

Also, what cap situation? Anaheim has around $5 million in cap room(I think it's more, actually).

It's less

The cap is also likely to go up after this season. They have no current cap concerns. Earlier cap concerns might've lead them to trade Mike Leclerc and Steve Rucchin, but Rucchin is no better than the guy they've got now(Todd Marchant), and Leclerc wouldn't have helped that much either. Rob Niedermayer has been better than both this year, and Selanne and Scott Nieds have been miles and miles better. I'm sure Burke has no regrets on those FA signings.

Look at the bigger picture, the current team is suffering because of the contracts given to the Neids brothers. The Ducks need multiple scorers
And as I just said to Rallykiller

Minimally outproudicing him for slightly more. But that isn't the point. The Ducks need more scorers, not swapping two guys that produce roughly the same.

 

[futurcorerock]

Since when does a GM go by what he says in the press?

YOU DON'T GIVE AWAY TRADE SECRETS

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Since when does a GM go by what he says in the press?

YOU DON'T GIVE AWAY TRADE SECRETS

Which is yet another reason to not put ANY stock into this quote.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Kessel is the best player in the tournament that can go one on one with any other player. He showed he can certainly be unselfish at the time, but I seriously doubt that he wont go #1 in the draft. He is still a franchise player and more importantly he could be a marketing machine. What's so special about John Toews? If anything he seems more mediocre than kessel. I agree Johnson is going to be a good pick aswell.

That;s the whole thing. He's NOT a special player by any means. He's a very, very solid prospect but he is nothing that special that you dont' see that often.

 

[Le Golie]

Kessel is the best player in the tournament that can go one on one with any other player. He showed he can certainly be unselfish at the time, but I seriously doubt that he wont go #1 in the draft. He is still a franchise player and more importantly he could be a marketing machine. What's so special about John Toews? If anything he seems more mediocre than kessel. I agree Johnson is going to be a good pick aswell.

There are a lot of things wrong with your post, and all of them could be pointed out to you by reading the thread (excluding the king guy's pissing match).

Firstly, I think Malkin would have something to say about your first statement.

And also, the things that make Toews special aren't things an average fan sees, but scouts all see them as plain as day. You don't see the game on the level scouts do. I'm not suggesting I am at that level, but to say something like 'What's so special about John Toews? If anything he seems more mediocre than kessel.' shows that you aren't seeing why he is thought of so highly. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

I myself would have a really, REALLY hard time passing on Kessel for Toews. But at the same time, I can see why some people would.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Chara makes 3.7 million
So does Redden
Lidstrom signed before the cap.

You asked my opinion, I gave it to you. A top flight d-man outside of Neids hasn't signed a contract in the new NHL, so there is no control

Chara will get that much if not more after this season. He too signed before the cap. Redden might get $5.5 too. If Lidstrom stays in the NHL after this season, he too will get more than $5.5 million. Pronger is a top-flight d-man, and he signed for more than $5.5 million too.



[quote[It's less[/quote]

It is? They were under before the Rucchin trade at about $38 million or so, IIRC. Once he left, they were at $36 million. Once Fedorov was traded, they cut another $2 million or so. That's $34 million. That's around $5 million, and I'm not sure if Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf's total salaries count against the cap. Then the cap goes up, and guys like Sykora and Salei leave. The Ducks have a very good cap situation going into the future.

Look at the bigger picture, the current team is suffering because of the contracts given to the Neids brothers. The Ducks need multiple scorers
And as I just said to Rallykiller

Minimally outproudicing him for slightly more. But that isn't the point. The Ducks need more scorers, not swapping two guys that produce roughly the same.

Where would they get these multiple scorers? If they give Forsberg what they gave Niedermayer, then they have a very, very crappy defense. Anybody else they could've added wouldn't have made much of a difference. Brian Burke can't just pull a scorer out of his ***.

 

[Spankatola Jamnuts*]

It all comes down to brass tax and Anaheim is a tenth place team.

Those brass taxes can be real killers.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I myself would have a really, REALLY hard time passing on Kessel for Toews. But at the same time, I can see why some people would.

I can, also. It's that whole safety issue. Kessel will be an NHLer, but will he be a Naslund or a Sykora?

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Just like Columbus GM Doug McLean saying he would take Peter Mueller over him, I put this in the BS catagory.


Anyone who watches the draft eligible players would tell you that Kessel is the one with the biggest upside.

Sure Toews projects as more well rounded pro, but you only get shots at a kid with so much offensive potential once in a decade if you're lucky, and no GM will pass on Kessel if they choose to pick #1.

Now a team may trade out of the #1 spot, sure, but Kessel is going #1, He's too good.

 

[Macman]

I know you're a solid poster here and don't want to come off as a dick to you, but how in the world can you possibly justify taking Toews over Kessel? I see Toews play a lot in college. I don't know if you have the liberty of that, but if you actually DO see him play outside of the WJCs, I think you'd be quite quickly changing that opinion. Yes, Toews is a fine prospect and will be a great NHLer, but he is not even close to the level that Phil Kessel is. He's on the Mueller/Frolik level.

It isn't always about how players are doing now but how they project three or five years down the road. If a team feels Toews has more upside than Kessel, they'll take him ahead of him. It's as simple as that. I think some of the doubts about Kessel are based on the fact he doesn't appear to be playing better at this year's tournament than he did last year. I think you could probably argue he's playing a little worse. So where's the growth? When scouts start asking that, the cracks begin to grow.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm not questioning his sincerity, but a GM who tells anyone outside his organization exactly what's he is thinking is an idiot. We don't really know what Burke would do imo, just that he continues to be hockey's best soundbite.

Especially if the Ducks get a 2nd or 3rd pick and get Kessel with that spot, there would already be a "problem" between the 2.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It isn't always about how players are doing now but how they project three or five years down the road. If a team feels Toews has more upside than Kessel, they'll take him ahead of him. It's as simple as that. I think some of the doubts about Kessel are based on the fact he doesn't appear to be playing better at this year's tournament than he did last year. I think you could probably argue he's playing a little worse. So where's the growth? When scouts start asking that, the cracks begin to grow.

No one would feel that Toews has more upside than Kessel. If they do, they are frankly a bit off their rocker. The whole debate really is that Toews has a safer chance or reaching his own potential than Kessel does of reaching HIS own potential (which is much MUCH higher than that of Toews).

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Just like Columbus GM Doug McLean saying he would take Peter Mueller over him, I put this in the BS catagory.


Anyone who watches the draft eligible players would tell you that Kessel is the one with the biggest upside.

Sure Toews projects as more well rounded pro, but you only get shots at a kid with so much offensive potential once in a decade if you're lucky, and no GM will pass on Kessel if they choose to pick #1.

Now a team may trade out of the #1 spot, sure, but Kessel is going #1, He's too good.

Kessel has a ton of upside, but Toews is probably a safer pick. If a team in dire need of a superstar has first overall, they'll probably take him, but if a team like, say, Columbus or Pittsburgh, who already has a young superstar or two, they might go with Toews. McLean saying he'd take Mueller might be BS, but then again, he might rather have Mueller because he's a bit of a safer pick than Kessel, and his team doesn't need a superstar like Kessel.

What I would love to see, though, is Chicago end up in a spot to pick Kessel. I certainly hope they would(those who know about Kessel's history know what I'm talking about).

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Kessel has a ton of upside, but Toews is probably a safer pick. If a team in dire need of a superstar has first overall, they'll probably take him, but if a team like, say, Columbus or Pittsburgh, who already has a young superstar or two, they might go with Toews. McLean saying he'd take Mueller might be BS, but then again, he might rather have Mueller because he's a bit of a safer pick than Kessel, and his team doesn't need a superstar like Kessel.

What I would love to see, though, is Chicago end up in a spot to pick Kessel. I certainly hope they would(those who know about Kessel's history know what I'm talking about).

Yeah but since when was taking the "better overall player" a popular thing to do at the NHL Entry Draft.

Bottom line, Phil Kessel is a name that can put butts in the seats in America, and especially if he can live up to the offensive hype to some extent.

Offensive gems like Kessel don't grow on trees....speed kills and this kid is the best i've seen in awhile.

I love Toews, Johnson,Mueller,Backstrom, ect. it's a good top end in 2006...but I still feal that whether the pick is traded or not, Kessel will go #1 overall.

 

[God Bless Canada]

As stated in another thread, Kessel is going through the same situation that a lot of players go through in their third year in the spotlight. Because we saw so much of Kessel, and there was so much hype, scouts and fans in general are starting to look for his weaknesses, instead of his strengths. Happened to guys like Samsonov, Spezza, Bouwmeester, Dan Cleary, Schremp, and, to a lesser extent, Ovechkin. (E. Staal and Crosby managed to avoid it).

I was never completely sold on Kessel. I think he's a wonderful offensive talent, but as I also stated before, he's the worst top-ranked forward since 1999. Kessel has put up points at this WJC, but I would say his play has been disappointing. I felt at the start of the year that the race for first overall was more open than others, and right now the guy I'm most impressed with is Erik Johnson.

As for Toews, I've had concerns with his offensive upside for a while. He's a born winner who steps up his play in the big games (witness his play at the Junior World Cup and the WU17, where he was the best forward at both). Is he a Scott Hartnell type, a second line forward who gets drafted higher because of his big game mentality and leadership? Or is he going to be able to add that offensive dimension to his game. (Don't listen to Pierre McGuire. Toews isn't Bryan Trottier. If he is, he'll be one of the best players ever. Trottier is one of the top 10 centres in the history of the game).

This is a very funny draft. There doesn't appear to be a clear cut No. 1, or even a guy who strikes you as a franchise-type or a top 20 NHL player. (Johnson may be the only one). Nobody in this year's draft is as good as Crosby, of course, but I don't know if anyone will be as good as Jack Johnson (who appears to be the real deal) or Gilbert Brule (who could become the prototypical small forward). But there a lot of very good players, guys who could be top line forwards or top pairing defencemen.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

As stated in another thread, Kessel is going through the same situation that a lot of players go through in their third year in the spotlight. Because we saw so much of Kessel, and there was so much hype, scouts and fans in general are starting to look for his weaknesses, instead of his strengths. Happened to guys like Samsonov, Spezza, Bouwmeester, Dan Cleary, Schremp, and, to a lesser extent, Ovechkin. (E. Staal and Crosby managed to avoid it).

I was never completely sold on Kessel. I think he's a wonderful offensive talent, but as I also stated before, he's the worst top-ranked forward since 1999. Kessel has put up points at this WJC, but I would say his play has been disappointing. I felt at the start of the year that the race for first overall was more open than others, and right now the guy I'm most impressed with is Erik Johnson.

As for Toews, I've had concerns with his offensive upside for a while. He's a born winner who steps up his play in the big games (witness his play at the Junior World Cup and the WU17, where he was the best forward at both). Is he a Scott Hartnell type, a second line forward who gets drafted higher because of his big game mentality and leadership? Or is he going to be able to add that offensive dimension to his game. (Don't listen to Pierre McGuire. Toews isn't Bryan Trottier. If he is, he'll be one of the best players ever. Trottier is one of the top 10 centres in the history of the game).

This is a very funny draft. There doesn't appear to be a clear cut No. 1, or even a guy who strikes you as a franchise-type or a top 20 NHL player. (Johnson may be the only one). Nobody in this year's draft is as good as Crosby, of course, but I don't know if anyone will be as good as Jack Johnson (who appears to be the real deal) or Gilbert Brule (who could become the prototypical small forward). But there a lot of very good players, guys who could be top line forwards or top pairing defencemen.

Great post.

I can't see Toews taking Kessel out of the #1 spot but I could see Eric Johnson.

 

[Heat McManus]

Speaking of that interview... didn't he say that Ryan was the best interview he's ever had in all his time as a GM???

Yes he did. It was in a recent article in ESPN.

Also, remember one of the biggest issues with Ryan was his past. An issue which appears to be bogus. In addition, Ryan hasn't been used a lot by the US this year at the WJC. Too early to tell who had a better pick.

 

[Hockeyfan02]

Chara makes 3.7 million
So does Redden
Lidstrom signed before the cap.

You asked my opinion, I gave it to you. A top flight d-man outside of Neids hasn't signed a contract in the new NHL, so there is no control

Chris Pronger signed a new deal with the Oilers day before Nieds did. 5 years for around 31-32 million. The price was set. Burke actually signed Nieds for less than the highest offer he received (a max offer from NJ from one of the best GMs in game who helped write the CBA).

He has not created a cap problem in Anaheim. You say Anaheim needs scorers yet guys like Rucchin and Leclerec (who you criticize him for trading) are not goal scorers and were not going to get goal scorers in return. Fedorov was overpaid at his price (3 more years on his deal) and Burke got essentially 3 players who have instantly contributed for the Ducks. Beauchemin has outproduce Fedorov and he was a throw in the deal, making less than 1/10th of what Fedorov does and is outproducing him. Burke has taken some heat for his moves, but they've turned out ok so far. His past resume in Vancouver had it's ups and downs. That has little relevance in what is a new landscape with new rules.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Kessel is already tearing the Czechs up tonight.

 

[Bruinsyear]

Since when does a GM go by what he says in the press?

YOU DON'T GIVE AWAY TRADE SECRETS

Exactly. With the way the ducks season is going they will have a shot at a top 5 pick. Why not talk Kessel down a bit and see if you can get people second guessing. It would always be nice to have him fall a slot or two now wouldnt it Burkey?

Brian Burke thinks steps ahead, why else would he really event comment on the subject matter?

Plant a seed and watch it grow....hopefully.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Just like Columbus GM Doug McLean saying he would take Peter Mueller over him, I put this in the BS catagory.


Anyone who watches the draft eligible players would tell you that Kessel is the one with the biggest upside.

Sure Toews projects as more well rounded pro, but you only get shots at a kid with so much offensive potential once in a decade if you're lucky, and no GM will pass on Kessel if they choose to pick #1.

Now a team may trade out of the #1 spot, sure, but Kessel is going #1, He's too good.

If St.Louis get's the first pick they'll take Kessell, if Columbus or Pittsburgh were to get it they'd probably take Johnson.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Exactly. With the way the ducks season is going they will have a shot at a top 5 pick. Why not talk Kessel down a bit and see if you can get people second guessing. It would always be nice to have him fall a slot or two now wouldnt it Burkey?

Brian Burke thinks steps ahead, why else would he really event comment on the subject matter?

Plant a seed and watch it grow....hopefully.

They're much, much closer to a playoff spot than a top five pick, and are a couple games over .500. Have you been paying any attention to them at all?