Bruins Veteran Leadership Group vs. Kessel/Seguin/Hamilton

Trap Jesus

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
28,686
13,456
The Kessel, Seguin and Hamilton situations are all different in their own way, but one recurring theme we hear about is how they "didn't fit in" in Boston.

Management seemed content to keep all 3 of these players on board long-term at least at some point (The Bruins were negotiating with Kessel for months before he was traded, Hamilton was offered a 6 year deal at a shade under what Calgary signed him for, and Seguin actually did sign a 6 year deal in Boston). This leads me to believe it's unreasonable to assume they weren't "wanted" by Bruins management.

We've also seen plenty of players have no problems whatsoever in signing long term with the Bruins (Bergeron, Krejci, Chara, Rask, Seidenberg, Marchand, McQuaid, etc.), so it's not like it's some situation where everyone is miserable and wants to get out.

So, that leaves us with the question of why these players all wanted to leave Boston, and a lot of it suggests that there was some type of rift between the veteran leadership group and those 3 young players.

Chara regarding Kessel and Seguin:

"It comes to personal sacrifices you have to make or are willing to give up," said Chara, speaking specifically about Kessel and Seguin. "And it's not always easy to do. I know they are good people. Obviously, really talented, great players. But sometimes you do have to make sacrifices and be willing to do -- or not to do -- certain things. And perhaps it was maybe harder than they thought it would be, and ... it didn't work."

Seguin:

"I admit that there were probably some decisions I could have made better, but I also highly doubt that anyone would endorse every choice they made in their late teens. It’s part of growing up. I was living on my own for the first time and was the only single guy on the team. On off-nights, when the other guys would go home to their wives and families, I would go out. But none of my behavior was ever malicious, and it certainly didn’t affect my play on the ice. The suggestion that it did always bothered me because I fulfilled every role that the Bruins asked of me, whether it was leading the team in scoring as a center or serving as a winger on the third line."

There aren't any firm quotes on this subject regarding Hamilton, but obviously there's speculation about it being a similar issue.

So, my question to HF is if you do believe there is something going on in Boston where there's a divide between the veterans and younger players, and, if so, who is to blame for this? Obviously not a "right or wrong" question and something we wouldn't know for sure, but I thought it would be interesting to see what people think.
 

ashnathan

Registered User
Apr 22, 2014
13,557
253
Australia
oh god. Let's not start the dressing room fairy tales again :cry:

Personalities clash, especially in an environment that involves pro athletes and a lot of money. We just put them on a pedestal and magnify their every move. Its not a culture problem
 

7bostonhockey*

Guest
Seguin didn't want out.

Kessel even has Boston on his trade Destination list.

Cut the revisionist history and self loathing.
 

Bruinguru

Registered User
Jul 8, 2013
254
108
Saskatoon, SK
Seguin didn't want out.

Kessel even has Boston on his trade Destination list.

Cut the revisionist history and self loathing.

The one thing the Bruins sorely lack is a 35-goal scorer. Is it so crazy to think Kessel could come back here?

I'd make Toronto eat some salary and get Phil his own dressing room and away we'd go...
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
40,868
20,480
The one thing the Bruins sorely lack is a 35-goal scorer. Is it so crazy to think Kessel could come back here?

I'd make Toronto eat some salary and get Phil his own dressing room and away we'd go...

That Toronto trade could have been the best in the history if these wouldn't have messed this up.

Kessel return still here+ Bruins making a trade for Kessel now with much less value, man it would have been beautiful and the team deadly, a dynasty :laugh:

But could he be an crazy option for these guys? Toronto would like to get assets for him+ him out of the team and the teams haven't been biting, Kessel would be a huge boost to our scoring and Kessel-Pasta-Connolly rw line could be deadly.

We have 2 2016 1st's and it would take one of those+ strong prospect/smith+ subban+ savard contract to get him, could they think that because they've had a plan for few weeks now and it could be something crazy :laugh:
 

7bostonhockey*

Guest
The one thing the Bruins sorely lack is a 35-goal scorer. Is it so crazy to think Kessel could come back here?

I'd make Toronto eat some salary and get Phil his own dressing room and away we'd go...

Yeah sure.

If we're tanking for Matthews.

No one quits on the play or the team quite like Kessel.
 

7bostonhockey*

Guest
Just put him on Bergy's line... and have Chara threaten him...

All this wacky karmic energy of the Hamilton and Seguin trades points to a Kessel return.

Seems like forces in the universe is intentionally undoing the trade.
I wouldn't be surprised. I would hate it.

But I wouldn't be surprised.
 

BadBruins

Registered User
Aug 10, 2005
9,938
1,566
PEI
I don't know what the answer is, but I am legitimately worried about Pastrnak in two years. Just seems like there's an unreasonably high expectation to be 100% physically and mentally mature by the age of 21. Maybe fast tracking players isn't the right direction for this organization at this time?
 

TCL40

Registered User
Jun 29, 2011
25,792
945
I picked both equally but mostly because I don't think there is this huge veterans boys club that's mean to all the young kids. And I don't think all the kids are immature and can't get along.

I do think its hard for young kids to come into the NHL though-18/19 year olds are at a different point in life than 25 year olds.

I will say one thing about Chara, Bergeron and Krejci-they clearly value hard work and team first attitudes. I think players who don't fit that value are going to struggle in the locker room (not saying Seguin and Hamilton didn't but I do suspect Kessel may have struggled in this area).

I still think Dougie didn't like Playing for Julien but I think the locker room is something we only think we know. I do think last season the locker room in general probably wasn't a happy place most nights. When teams are winning its easier to overlook conflicts but when things are going poorly tempers rise.
 

talkinaway

Registered User
Mar 19, 2014
6,973
4,126
On the couch
Seguin didn't want out.

Kessel even has Boston on his trade Destination list.

Cut the revisionist history and self loathing.

I'm not sure that means that Kessel would welcome coming back to Boston. There are two strategies to make a trade list:

1) Keep teams that you genuinely don't like on your "no-trade" list, so you don't have to go there - especially if these are teams that your club might be dealing with (ie if you're in the East, watch out for Western teams that you dislike.)

2) Put teams that you know you have no chance of being traded to on your "trade" list.

The fact that the Bruins are on Kessel's "trade" list might just mean that he thinks he doesn't have a chance in hell of coming here. If the "will trade" list is 15 teams long, it's now effectively reduced to 14 teams - 14 teams that he thinks he'd rather play for.

In fact, I would wager that this is why the Bruins are on the list. Don't listen to Haggs. If Sweeney pulls a move to get Kessel back, there are plenty of pitchforks and torches to go around.

All that said, to a minor degree, Kessel does check a lot of boxes that the Bruins generally need - right wing, right shot, high scorer. But I think Clode would have a heart attack if he had to integrate Kessel into his system again.

And to the original post - I don't think I can see into the locker room any more than anyone else. However, I don't think that Hamilton's trade was due to him being a "loner" - Hamilton just decided that it was time to move. The team's getting older, there's not much cup future in store for the Bruins, and he doesn't have roots here. It may be as simple as that. Sure, he may not Mr. Charisma like Bergeron or Chara (seriously, you should see Chara when he's talking to kids - it's great), but he hardly seems to be locker room poison.
 

Lost Horizons

Registered User
Oct 14, 2006
10,231
636
Mass
PB37 came into the league as an 18 yr old so he knows what it's like to be the youngest on a team with vets so I have a hard time believing he wouldn't go out of his way to get help youngsters out.

Kessel wanted out because he didn't like Cj. Kessel had his buddy Wheeler on the team.

Seguin partied too much and his parents didn't seem to want to straighten him out like Marchand's dad did.

As for Dougie who the hell knows at this point
 
Last edited:

roguepatriot

Registered User
Jun 24, 2010
99
1
I don't know what the answer is, but I am legitimately worried about Pastrnak in two years. Just seems like there's an unreasonably high expectation to be 100% physically and mentally mature by the age of 21. Maybe fast tracking players isn't the right direction for this organization at this time?

If there is a problem among the players, I don't think David will follow the path of the rest of the young 'superstars'. This guy was bleeding black and gold 5 years ago and is already more mature than either Seguin and Hamilton. SO sure he's been fast-tracked into the NHL a little early,and he will have bumps, but along with all that skill, he has an infectious personality that will win people over to his side. Personally, he is who I would want the franchise to be build around down the road much more than Dougie (and sure it would be better to have both). I don't expect him to want $6 mill/year in two years, but if he continues on the present path, unlike the others, he may persuade the franchise that he is worth it by developing into the player they want.
 

Man Rocket

88+73
Jul 12, 2011
6,916
77
Maybe, but i think its more the Bruins front office/owners/staff etc than the vets Chara Bergy etc.

Looking at you Jacobs, Jacobs jr, Neely, Sindin etc
 

Alicat

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 26, 2005
87,844
97,880
Boston
Maybe, but i think its more the Bruins front office/owners/staff etc than the vets Chara Bergy etc.

Looking at you Jacobs, Jacobs jr, Neely, Sindin etc

My thought that it was Chiarelli and the old scouting department who didn't do enough due diligence on Hamilton. Possibly another reason why he and the scouting staff were all fired?

This is not on the players. They actually tried to work with them, especially Seguin.

As MMB said, they were each moved for different reasons.

Seguin wanted to be here but his off ice stuff forced them to move him
Kessel wanted a pay day and refused to sign back with them
Dougie didn't want to be here and it wasn't because of the players.
 

SPV

Zoinks!
Sponsor
Feb 4, 2003
10,411
4,666
New Hampshire
hfboards.com
I don't necessarily think there is anything to this.

but something to consider, nobody else on the roster besides those three were drafted near the top of the first round, and much of the roster after the first round. Those guys had to work their butts off to get to where they are. I could imagine that it would be tough to watch guys with great natural talent push their way into that group.
 

BMC

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2003
69,920
60,083
The Quiet Corner
PB37 came into the league as an 18 yr old so he knows what it's like to be the youngest on a team with vets so I have a hard time believing he wouldn't go out of his way to get help youngsters out.

Kessel wanted out because he didn't like Cj. Kessel had his buddy Wheeler on the team.

Seguin partied too much and his parents didn't seem to want to straighten him out like Marchand's dad did.

As for Dougie who the hell knows at this point

Patrice also spent his rookie season living with Martin Lapointe & his family. Lapointe taught him how to be an NHL pro and thankfully Patrice was smart & mature enough to learn from him.
 

Trap Jesus

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
28,686
13,456
...

Sorry, but all three of these guys were moved out for different reasons.

I'm not saying this was the main or only reason they're not Bruins anymore, but it's tough to argue against it at least playing some kind of part. For Hamilton we can only speculate, but the Chara quote is all you really need to see to know that there was some kind of disconnect between the leadership group and Kessel/Seguin in terms of professionalism.
 

LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,513
22,022
Central MA
It's not the veteran leadership that's the problem. It's Julien and his rigid system. Dougie left because he didn't want to play within that structure anymore. It limits the player's offensive creativity and takes away their strengths. Kessel didn't enjoy it, Seguin clearly likes playing elsewhere. Wheeler as well. At some point you have to grasp the concept that it's not the young players who are the problem. It's the coaches structure that, while it can keep them in games, also prevents the players from being their best possible offensive version. If you're an offensive player and you come to Boston, you know you're not going to be allowed to use your best attributes, and that if you don't execute within the framework of the vaunted system, you'll be shipped out.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad