Proposal: Bruins / Red Wings

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A second round draft pick is a massive “throw in.” red wing fans forget what drafting talent is about clearly. You have to trade aging and expiring assets for picks and prospects. That’s how rebuilding works. Red wings are brutal. With almost no assets worth anything. I wouldn’t even want Staal or mantha. Especially not for the boat load of stuff red wings fans want for him. He doesn’t even move the needle. He another 20 goal 50 point guy. Bruins have about 5 of these guys and the fans hate them. Just another whipping boy for the bruins fans to tear apart.

No, it's not. A second is the throw-in a team who isn't serious about wanting to make a trade offers. A second is a big throw-in when you're talking about a mid-range rental. A 2nd or two gets you Douglas Murray. A 2nd gets you like 8-10 weeks of Radim Vrbata as a rental. What the f*** is a second round pick to Detroit if they're giving up Mantha or Bertuzzi? They'd have to use that asset to replace one of their prime-aged pieces that they just surrendered.

Red Wings have had 10+ draft picks every year since 2017 and are slated to have 9 picks already for 2021 and are lined up to deal guys like Glendening, Bernier, possibly Bertuzzi, etc to land even more. I think they're quite aware of the need to trade to acquire picks.

Also, no assets worth anything?

Disregarding the guys who are the current NHL tweeners (like Rasmussen), the Wings have Dylan Larkin, Anthony Mantha, and Filip Hronek currently on the roster who are quite solid. They have very young players like Veleno, Johansson,Berggren, Raymond, and Seider as prospects. The last three are lighting it up like crazy. They still have the guy who was the #3OA graded prospect in 2018 by most people at the time of the draft in Zadina. Wings are still brutal because 75% of their best prospects for the future are still very young and not ready for prime-time yet and the guys they have keeping the roster spots warm are completely garbage. But because the Wings aren't f***ing stupid, they're not pulling an Edmonton and letting those promising young players just continue to take kicks to the dick.

 

[bearcountry17]

Having a draft pick bust because they suck and having a draft pick bust because they had two catastrophic injuries in back to back years are two different things.

Not to mention there’s really nothing that beats f***ing up 3 firsts in a row. All of that is getting away from the overall point, which was that he really has zero room to talk about drafting with shit like that.

What about having a 21 year old 6th and 22 year old 9th overall picks producing at a combined 21 points in 59 games when one of those f***ed up picks put up 43 in 70 his rookie year at 21?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

What about having a 21 year old 6th and 22 year old 9th overall picks producing at a combined 21 points in 59 games when one of those f***ed up picks put up 43 in 70 his rookie year at 21?

Not gonna bother defending Rasmussen, but the people who want to criticize Zadina clearly don't watch him lol.

 

[bearcountry17]

Not gonna bother defending Rasmussen, but the people who want to criticize Zadina clearly don't watch him lol.

Not saying Zadina isn't a good player but if you are happy with your team spending #6 on him I don't see how Debrusk is a f***ed up pick at 14. He's obviously struggled bad this year but Debrusk was a very good 2nd line wing his first few years in the league and did so playing with mostly blackholes on his opposite wing.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The OP's offer should have been locked immediately, it was that insulting...

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Not saying Zadina isn't a good player but if you are happy with your team spending #6 on him I don't see how Debrusk is a f***ed up pick at 14. He's obviously struggled bad this year but Debrusk was a very good 2nd line wing his first few years in the league and did so playing with mostly blackholes on his opposite wing.

Merely stat watching it might look that way, but realistically if you've watched Zadina this year, you'll see a very well-rounded player.

Maybe I'm just looking for a silver-lining, but when you're stuck with linemates of the likes of Helm, Glendening, Gagner, etc. for the last two years, you can't really be surprised at his production. At the end of the day, the problem with Detroit is their scoring depth is so abysmal that teams only have 3-5 forwards to truly worry about, and they just go weapons hot on shutting down those guys.

For my full homer take, I think as you see Detroit actually get a formidable group of forwards, Zadina starts looking like a poor man's Mark Stone/Marian Hossa. If he can be a 30+30 guy that plays both ways like those two, that's well worth 6OA.

 

[Oddbob]

MAN ALIVE BAD TRADE OP!

Why don't we just throw in Zadina and Larkin to make it more even?!?

 

[Oddbob]

The OP was rough, but there is no package the Wings could produce that would get them Pasta's used gloves, much less him...

Somebody here missed the joke counter offer!

 

[Oddbob]

Yes this is year 5 of us missing the playoffs, however we were still trying to get into the playoff the first 2 years of those last 5 years, then we started selling off the assets we had to get more picks. The rebuild then started in the 3rd year of missing the playoffs, and as others have pointed out, making the playoffs and drafting low each year, and trading assets to stay good for 25 years means eventually you will start being bad, unless you get really lucky and 2nd round and lower guys hit it out of the park with development which for every team is extremely unlucky. Our prospect cupboard looks decent right now and adding more this offseason, so saying we aren't improving is talking straight out your ass.

Also running us down, while we have 4 Cups since 1997, were in 2 other finals, one which we lost in game 7, while you have 1 Cup win and 1 Finals loss, seems ridiculous. All that while including that the Wings have been dreadful the past 3 seasons, while the Bruins have been competitive.

 

[Oddbob]

Everyone is certainly entitled ot their opinion and we all see things differently. In the games I've seen (especially last night's) I though he was an absolute liability on the ice. It's not everything to be sure, but the Dailyfaceoff ratings that use Corsica's formula have him as the 119th rated LD (not D, just LD) in the league. But there are certainly things ratings like that miss.

That is the problem using advanced stats to measure players. While Staal makes his fair share of boneheaded plays and can be slow, he has actually impressed me with his willingness to join the rush and the offensive zone while getting back defensively, and blocking shots. Overall he is a mixed bag, as he has lots of good and lots of bad, but I still don't think overall he is the worst defender in the NHL, and I don't even think bottom 10. He is still a pretty smart defender at times and he is more engaged everynight than lots of other blueliners out there.

We had Bowey, Daley, Biega and Ericsson last year and they were all light years worse than Staal has been.

 

[Oddbob]

What about having a 21 year old 6th and 22 year old 9th overall picks producing at a combined 21 points in 59 games when one of those f***ed up picks put up 43 in 70 his rookie year at 21?

Did Zadina or Rasmussen get to play secondary scorer on a team that had Pastrnak, Marchand and Bergeron? Playing easier minutes against lesser competition makes it easier to score which is why on a good team, lots of secondary scorers do quite well. If Debrusk was on the Wings he would very likely have similar stats to Zadina or Rasmussen. Point is, you can't compare playing as a young guy on a contender/playoff team and playing on the bottom of the barrel team.

Very few young guys would be doing well (points wise) on the current Red Wings, as our best offensive blueliner is Hronek and then no one else, and not having a good offensive guy on the blueline is a huge reason for any offence to struggle. You guys have had Krug and McAvoy on your team, which believe me helps your team be a lot better at transitioning out of your zone and maintaining offence.

 

[Debrincat93]

Vankaanien, Bjork, Studnicka and 2nd for Mantha,Staal, Bertuzzi if Bertuzzi signs change to a #1 .........I am sure I will take s#$t from all sides but, I have to put something out there.........

why do people do this?

might as well add larkin and zadina?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Vankaanien, Bjork, Studnicka and 2nd for Mantha,Staal, Bertuzzi if Bertuzzi signs change to a #1 .........I am sure I will take s#$t from all sides but, I have to put something out there.........

Mantha for Vaakanainen, Studnicka, Swayman, a 1st and a cap dump is the minimum for me to consider it. Not even sure I'd do it but your proposal is way off. This is a good starting place. If that's too rich, okay, that's cool. Lock the thread.

 

[BinCookin]

I have no comment on the OP. Or all the BS fan on fan drafting and player violence that is just S&$^ Talking.

I can say this though. I opened this thread wondering what UFA's Boston wanted from us.
Realised they wanted 2 of our only good players.

Worst bit is... they don't even appreciate those players.
They don't even really want them. Thats fine, guess we will keep them

 

[Hookslide]

Mantha for Vaakanainen, Studnicka, Swayman, a 1st and a cap dump is the minimum for me to consider it. Not even sure I'd do it but your proposal is way off. This is a good starting place. If that's too rich, okay, that's cool. Lock the thread.

my proposal is way off ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I assume you will admit your proposal is way off

 

[BinCookin]

my proposal is way off ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I assume you will admit your proposal is way off

As a side question. Who do you think Boston picks up at the deadline?

Would you be interested in Bobby Ryan for a 3rd round pick?

 

[wintersej]

As a side question. Who do you think Boston picks up at the deadline?

Would you be interested in Bobby Ryan for a 3rd round pick?

If that's what happens something has gone horribly wrong.

Not counting it out, lol.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Not saying Zadina isn't a good player but if you are happy with your team spending #6 on him I don't see how Debrusk is a f***ed up pick at 14. He's obviously struggled bad this year but Debrusk was a very good 2nd line wing his first few years in the league and did so playing with mostly blackholes on his opposite wing.

The point is that you had three back to back to back picks and you got two meh players and DeBrusk is 20g, 40 point guy... when the exact next three picks were a 1C, a 1D, and a PPG winger. And it really is the thing that guys like Connor and Chabot weren't surprises to be as good as they were.

Zadina had a pedigree that made it a real thought he should be 3OA in that draft.

 

[Hookslide]

As a side question. Who do you think Boston picks up at the deadline?

Would you be interested in Bobby Ryan for a 3rd round pick?

no interest at all...........

 

[HisNoodliness]

my proposal is way off ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I assume you will admit your proposal is way off

Maybe a neutral arbitrator would have a reasonable middle ground. I'm not really interested in moving Mantha for less

 

[Faltorvo]

Vankaanien, Bjork, Studnicka and 2nd for Mantha,Staal, Bertuzzi if Bertuzzi signs change to a #1 .........I am sure I will take s#$t from all sides but, I have to put something out there.........

how does this help Dets future?

you sent them nothing but a bags of sht

 

[Hookslide]

how does this help Dets future?

you sent them nothing but a bags of sht

You are on a rebuild , I was just thinking that you would be looking for young players.......and a lot post that I see they shit all over Mantha unless they trading him then he is the second coming of Gordie Howe............

 

[TheOtherOne]

You are on a rebuild , I was just thinking that you would be looking for young players.......and a lot post that I see they shit all over Mantha unless they trading him then he is the second coming of Gordie Howe............

We shit all over Mantha because he has the ability to be our best player if he wants to, but since he's lazy he's only our best player like half the time and our second best player the other half the time.

 

[Hookslide]

We shit all over Mantha because he has the ability to be our best player if he wants to, but since he's lazy he's only our best player like half the time and our second best player the other half the time.

So what are you trading your second best player, wich makes no sense if you are rebuilding or are you trading your lazy ass player

 

[bearcountry17]

The point is that you had three back to back to back picks and you got two meh players and DeBrusk is 20g, 40 point guy... when the exact next three picks were a 1C, a 1D, and a PPG winger. And it really is the thing that guys like Connor and Chabot weren't surprises to be as good as they were.

Zadina had a pedigree that made it a real thought he should be 3OA in that draft.

The point is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Sweeney messed up the first round of the 15 draft but he did very well in the 2nd round on and also drafted McAvoy(better than anyone the Red Wings have drafted since the turn of the century) at 14 the very next year in a weak draft. He is on video telling Chiarelli what to do at another weak draft in '14 (Pastrnak,Donato,Heinen,Bjork). He has good picks and bad picks like all GMs. I could just as easily say lol Red Wings could have had Debrincat, Carlo, Hughes, Suzuki instead of Cholowski,Svech,Zadina, and Rasmussen.