Bruins make switch to 100% electronic ticketing - no paper (PDF's) accepted

[GuelphStormer]

I have nothing against going all mobile but I do think teams should invest to make sure their infrastructure is up to date and can support thousands of phones trying to access WiFi/mobile networks in the area at one time. Case in point, I am a Kansas City Chiefs fan who went to the AFC Championship Game. Both parking and ticket were mobile only, again, which is fine because I'm tech knowledgable enough to handle it. But it took an awkward 30-45 seconds sitting with the parking attendant because my phone would not connect to their specific app because the network was overloaded. Perhaps it was an individual issue with my phone but my gut says that connectivity going down could cause a major issue at some point, whether it be NFL, NHL, etc.

this is my concern as well. any time I have attended an event that uses e-tickets exclusively on phones, it has been challenging. there are a lot of elements to this whole approach, some driven by the seller/event (apps, tickets on account, website), or the venue (wifi, hand scanners, connectivity to ticket/user database), or the user (presuming a smartphone), or the user's data provider (coverage) ... technology is great when it works but awful when it doesn't and it's a nightmare when it presumes all users are ready and able. and that's even without considering ticket transfers to others.

 

[LadyStanley]

When I was a Sharks STH, there was a $15 charge on top of tickets to cover mailing and ticket printing costs. They didn't reduce it when they went electronic. (If you bought at ticket office, you could still get hard ticket)

how will this effect stubhub or craigslist ticket purchases from strangers? I usually use those methods to get tickets

Depends on market. Some will allow you to transfer tickets (after a sale on whatever platform), but many teams and creating their own ticket market so they can track and control any sales.

(I still plan on getting tickets from STH friends and will give $$ via PayPal or in person, with the tickets then transferred electronically.)

that's the problem. for some it is more convenient, for others it is prohibitive ... not everybody has a smartphone (with data).

And not all venues have decent WiFi OUTSIDE of arena to bring up those apps to display the tickets.

I have nothing against going all mobile but I do think teams should invest to make sure their infrastructure is up to date and can support thousands of phones trying to access WiFi/mobile networks in the area at one time. Case in point, I am a Kansas City Chiefs fan who went to the AFC Championship Game. Both parking and ticket were mobile only, again, which is fine because I'm tech knowledgable enough to handle it. But it took an awkward 30-45 seconds sitting with the parking attendant because my phone would not connect to their specific app because the network was overloaded. Perhaps it was an individual issue with my phone but my gut says that connectivity going down could cause a major issue at some point, whether it be NFL, NHL, etc.

Sharks fans at Stadium Game (vs LAK) at Levi's Stadium crashed their WiFi. (Talk about hard testing in advance of SuperBowl )

Sharks upgraded their WiFi 2-3 times to get the capacity and bandwidth to support tens of thousands of simultaneous users. There are still times I can't get WiFi nor cell coverage in some venues.

Not only are the savings kept by the company and not passed to the customer — but the ticket itself is worth less under this system. You lose flexibility to re-sell it on your own terms, and are forced into a system which is intentionally designed to gouge its customers with transaction fees.

What that means on a practical basis is that if the market value of the ticket is $100 — meaning you could get $100 in cash for a paper ticket by selling it on Craigslist with no fees — then under this system you are going to lose about $15 of that value to team and Ticketmaster fees.

I haven't sold tickets recently (no longer STH), but I'm paying it seems like 30% in fees above "list price" to buy on closed market. So a $150 ticket gets close to $200 in out of pocket cost.

 

[LeHab]

There is zero way to defraud someone with an electronic ticket other than taking their money & failing to deliver anything in return.

I prefer not to talk in absolutes when it comes to security as every system has weaknesses. Electronic tickets that are based on a barcode or QR code will get a new code when transferred which is good. However they can still be duplicated when eager fans post pictures on social media.

This said the bar is set much higher which is really all that matters.

 

[Fenway]

The wifi in and around TD Garden has never been great during an event and the Bruins have a major sponsorship with AT&T so I have found Verizon LTE can be spotty inside the building.

It's better now than it was - in 2012 it may have played a roll in US history.

How a canceled Boston Bruins game led to a Mitt Romney campaign Election Day meltdown

TD Garden has the added problem in 80% of fans show up 15 minutes before puck drop as many are in the numerous bars and restaurants in the area.

 

[Trizent]

Oilers went with this last year. After preseason, it was announced that pdfs were back with the ability to print 48h before an event, presumably due to a backlash of some sort. Near the end of the season, pdf window grew to 96h before an event that tickets could be printed.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I prefer not to talk in absolutes when it comes to security as every system has weaknesses. Electronic tickets that are based on a barcode or QR code will get a new code when transferred which is good. However they can still be duplicated when eager fans post pictures on social media.

This said the bar is set much higher which is really all that matters.

I should have clarified. There is no way to scam someone when sending them a VGK electronic ticket via the Flashseats platform.

 

[Fenway]

It is going to be interesting to see how Stub Hub and regional brokers like Ace Ticket work around this.

To me, the weak link is the scanning at the gate. If I take a screenshot of the code in the Bruins app can that be detected?

The scalpers who work TD Garden and Fenway Park have been doing this for generations and I have seen some familiar faces in many out of town venues. The only market the Charlestown crowd won't go to is Toronto as scalping there is entrenched.

 

[NCRanger]

The wifi in and around TD Garden has never been great during an event and the Bruins have a major sponsorship with AT&T so I have found Verizon LTE can be spotty inside the building.

It's better now than it was - in 2012 it may have played a roll in US history.

How a canceled Boston Bruins game led to a Mitt Romney campaign Election Day meltdown

TD Garden has the added problem in 80% of fans show up 15 minutes before puck drop as many are in the numerous bars and restaurants in the area.

As someone kind of distantly involved in that campaign, the "real time tech" was highly underwhelming. "We" spent all that money on "Project ORCA", and it was an abject failure.

 

[NCRanger]

this is my concern as well. any time I have attended an event that uses e-tickets exclusively on phones, it has been challenging. there are a lot of elements to this whole approach, some driven by the seller/event (apps, tickets on account, website), or the venue (wifi, hand scanners, connectivity to ticket/user database), or the user (presuming a smartphone), or the user's data provider (coverage) ... technology is great when it works but awful when it doesn't and it's a nightmare when it presumes all users are ready and able. and that's even without considering ticket transfers to others.

Great points.

Recent example. Two nights ago, I took my wife and daughter to the Godsmack show in Charlotte. They were playing at a relatively small outdoor amphitheater. I had bought "lawn seats" back in May when Live Nation put shows on sale for $20 "all in". I had the "tickets" in my "Apple Wallet". That wasn't an issue.

However, when we were in line, staff came around offering seat upgrades for $10. We said fine (ended up spending $30 for $55 seats when it was said and done). In order to do this, I had to go to a website, and set up an account. It offered seats, I paid via my debit card, then had to set up a PIN. The mobile web wasn't completely compatible with my 2 year old iPhone. I couldn't move off the PIN popup. It froze the entire phone's browser.

We ended up going into the venue. The LTE signal got stronger, and somehow the mobile web reset itself and the site took my PIN, and we got our upgrades.

It eventually worked, BUT, it was not a hassle-free process and did require a ton of staff around, because the same thing happened on other people's phones.

 

[I am not exposed]

if you have an email, or computer, not everyone does you know and if I was going to recieve paperless billing why would the company not pass on some of those savings to the customer instead of increasing profit margins?

I will tell you why, its greed.

same thing with online pay statements, HR departments save tonnes of money by doing this yet staffs wages don't increase accordingly, just the companies profits and they pass on the expense of printing the pay statements on to the staff member

What irks me is that if you go paperless with your statements for credit cards etc., thus doing your bit for the environment, the company just ends up sending just as much, if not more junk mail and promotions through the mail!

 

[Boris Zubov]

It is going to be interesting to see how Stub Hub and regional brokers like Ace Ticket work around this.

To me, the weak link is the scanning at the gate. If I take a screenshot of the code in the Bruins app can that be detected?

The scalpers who work TD Garden and Fenway Park have been doing this for generations and I have seen some familiar faces in many out of town venues. The only market the Charlestown crowd won't go to is Toronto as scalping there is entrenched.

Here in Vegas, the Flashseats app uses a QR code that changes every 60 seconds, so a screenshot would be useless.

As far as StubHub, etc. when the Knights began play, StubHub was their preferred reseller, so they set it up that our tickets would be transferred automatically to the buyer when they sold. After the first season, the two entities sued one another over playoff revenue, so the partnership dissolved. Now if you're ballsy enough to list your tickets on SH, you have to transfer the seats to the buyer after SH provides you their info. A savvy seller could therefore put together a list of buyers & cut out the middle man going forward.

 

[powerstuck]

Wonder how much the Apple-Google-LG-Huawai-Samsung conglomerate is paying teams for this.

The issue isn't having a phone, is having a phone with an internet connection. There are folks out there who don't have that type of phone.

And, when it comes to internet...i don't know for everyone else, but usually if I connect to a free wifi...my email gets flodded with all kinds of spam shit including multiple attemps to hack the account. But I doubt teams care about that.

Soon there will stop accepting cold hard cash as a payment method...that in itself will be an interesting thing to follow.

 

[Beerfish]

This would let me out of going to any games. I do not have a smart phone i have a cell phone but let the contract lapse after one year.

 

[NYRFAN218]

All about making it more difficult to resell and for the teams to know exactly what you're doing with your tickets while collecting data on those you transfer tickets to.

 

[LeHab]

Here in Vegas, the Flashseats app uses a QR code that changes every 60 seconds, so a screenshot would be useless.

Good to hear from a security point of view. Ticketmaster is experimenting going completely QR/barcodeless.

Ticketmaster is killing the bar code and choosing which fans can buy tickets in fight against bots and scalpers

 

[nowhereman]

Roughly only 80% of the adult population owns a smartphone. But that could mean 1 in 5 potential customers won't be able to access tickets easily. Why take the risk of pissing people off when it really won't effect your bottom line?

 

[Bjorn Le]

Roughly only 80% of the adult population owns a smartphone. But that could mean 1 in 5 potential customers won't be able to access tickets easily. Why take the risk of pissing people off when it really won't effect your bottom line?

And over 95% of American adults have cellphones. The smartphone number grows every year (it grew 4% from 77 to 81% from 2018 to 2019), and the numbers within major cities are certainly higher than 80%. Now consider the demographics of people going to hockey games (i.e. wealthy people). The number is going to be higher still. This maybe inconveniences 1,000 people over the course of an entire season. And I think that's a generous estimate.

The benefits of going digital are much more extensive than just printing costs. It expedites entry into the venue. It allows you to control the secondary market. It helps prevent fraud. It's more environmentally friendly. And the long term savings are likely pretty significant.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

There is zero way to defraud someone with an electronic ticket other than taking their money & failing to deliver anything in return.

Incorrect. Have you ever heard of a screenshot? They'd have to have a security feature in the app that prevents duplication via screenshots. Screenshots still work.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Incorrect. Have you ever heard of a screenshot? They'd have to have a security feature in the app that prevents duplication via screenshots. Screenshots still work.

I guess you failed to read further along in the thread. The QR code in the Flashseats app refreshes every 60 seconds. Screenshots are useless.

 

[NYRFAN218]

I guess you failed to read further along in the thread. The QR code in the Flashseats app refreshes every 60 seconds. Screenshots are useless.

Ticketmaster as part of their new deal with the NHL implemented this too for future seasons. I know it's already in effect with NYR and will assume it's in effect for any Ticketmaster team going forward. I don't know the exact time but I think it's something like every 2 minutes it refreshes. And when I went to go screenshot the tickets in my account; it gave me a message saying screenshots wouldn't be accepted at the venue.

 

[NYRFAN218]

And over 95% of American adults have cellphones. The smartphone number grows every year (it grew 4% from 77 to 81% from 2018 to 2019), and the numbers within major cities are certainly higher than 80%. Now consider the demographics of people going to hockey games (i.e. wealthy people). The number is going to be higher still. This maybe inconveniences 1,000 people over the course of an entire season. And I think that's a generous estimate.

The benefits of going digital are much more extensive than just printing costs. It expedites entry into the venue. It allows you to control the secondary market. It helps prevent fraud. It's more environmentally friendly. And the long term savings are likely pretty significant.

I'd really like to know the amount of people teams are turning away at the gate due to fraud (duplicate screenshots and PDF tickets). It's definitely an aspect of this but I don't doubt for one minute that controlling the secondary market and having the ability to collect data and watch over what plan holders are doing with their tickets is a much bigger factor in going mobile than cutting down on fraud or being more convenient. Hell, I don't even think this makes things more convenient when you factor in not everyone saves their ticket to their wallet, bad phone reception, and that I've gotta go grab my phone out of the bin or my bag after going through security and now I've gotta pull it up again after unlocking my phone all while I'm taking up space or holding up an entire line while the usher waits to scan my ticket.

Not to mention, screenshotting and sending to friends was a convenient aspect of mobile. Now, I've got to go into my Ticketmaster account and transfer each individual ticket to friends just for them to get in with the new system they have in place.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hell, I don't even think this makes things more convenient when you factor in not everyone saves their ticket to their wallet, bad phone reception, and that I've gotta go grab my phone out of the bin or my bag after going through security and now I've gotta pull it up again after unlocking my phone all while I'm taking up space or holding up an entire line while the usher waits to scan my ticket.

At least for Canes games, this would be a huge issue. The ticket scanners come immediately after the security check. Meaning people are still putting their keys back in their pockets, putting their hats back on, rearranging their possessions at the same time they are supposed to be pulling up tickets on their phone. It’s already a lot like the pressure of airport security, but having ALL guests scrambling on their phones would take it to the next level.

 

[Boris Zubov]

At least for Canes games, this would be a huge issue. The ticket scanners come immediately after the security check. Meaning people are still putting their keys back in their pockets, putting their hats back on, rearranging their possessions at the same time they are supposed to be pulling up tickets on their phone. It’s already a lot like the pressure of airport security, but having ALL guests scrambling on their phones would take it to the next level.

Security procedures are the same here in Vegas, but surprisingly it's not that much of a clusterf*** entering the arena. There is about 15 feet in between the security scanners & the front doors of the arena where people can get themselves situated before heading inside, so that does help.

Honestly my issue with all electronic tickets isn't with entering the building, it the fact that I have almost zero control of what I can do with my tickets. If I want to surprise someone with a set of tickets, I can't. If I want to hand a business colleague a set of tickets, I can't. If I want to give my dad, who doesn't own a smartphone, a set of tickets, I can't. Obviously all these issues can be worked out, but it's bullshit.

And the biggest deal is all my resales are tracked & at some point will be used against me when the team decides randomly that they think I've sold too many. Which still hasn't been made clear to any of us what that arbitrary number of games is.

 

[ollewall]

I don't get why everyone is upset about needing wifi on the phone etc.

Doesn't it clearly say that every STH get a STH contactless card that gives you access to the stadium?
If I understand it correctly it works the same way as for my soccer team Tottenham Hotspur. All STH have an access card that we 'beep' at the gates to get access. If I cannot attend a game I can either pass on my card or transfer the ticket digitally to another member of the club (they need to have a membership in the club website). Then I can sort out the payment via paypal, bank transfer or any other way of payment I find suitable. If I don't want to go through the hassle of finding a buyer myself I can mark which games I can't attend and the club will sell my tickets for me on the club ticket exchange for a full refund (provided it get sold).

We've only had it for a season but so far there have been absolutely no problems. It just gets more secure for the buyer as they don't risk ending up with some faked pdf that they won't know if it works or not until game day.

 

[GuelphStormer]

At least for Canes games, this would be a huge issue. The ticket scanners come immediately after the security check. Meaning people are still putting their keys back in their pockets, putting their hats back on, rearranging their possessions at the same time they are supposed to be pulling up tickets on their phone. It’s already a lot like the pressure of airport security, but having ALL guests scrambling on their phones would take it to the next level.

what a nightmare ... and just imagine this in buffalo where folks wear 3 layers of winter coats too.