AjaxTelamon
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- Jul 8, 2011
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Two young average prospects for Smid. That sets the bar for what we should expect in fantasyland (i.e. trading Orpik).
Edmonton have traded Smid to Calgary for Horak and Brossoit. Apparently Edmonton are looking to get another trade for a D done tonight. What would people like to come back for Orpik?
I wanted Smid. I'd have parted with two nothing prospects for him. Love Smid.
Smid is DEFINITELY better than Brooks Orpik. Orpik's reputation is overblown because he plays for a much higher-profile team.
I wonder where Orpik's career would be if HE were the one playing for a non-contender the last 5-7 years.
Smid is better than Orpik is right now for sure. Orpik at his peak, I'm not so sure. Not that it matters.
he peaked in the spring of 2009, basically. You might be right, Ogre, but it certainly wasn't a lengthy peak.
I don't think Smid and Orpik are in the same class value-wise at all, save for the fact that Smid is not a UFA after this season. Orpik is a superior player (even with his warts) and brings more playoff experience, leadership, physicality, etc.
IF (because I don't think Ray will do it) we were to trade Orpik, a team that would covet him for this year and who would want a crack at extending him would be willing to give at least what Smid got in return as a non-UFA (2 decent prospects), and probably more.
Edmonton, however, are not one of those teams who I see as having a serious shot at Orpik at all. Why would he want to go that far away and that far north in Canada for a team that, while appears to be serious contender in 2-3 years, is nowhere close to that right now, and would be a non-playoff team this season. I doubt EDM is on Orpik's limited NTC list he'd accept a trade to, and I doubt EDM thinks they'd be able to re-sign him. Not a good destination/trading partner IF we were even going to consider trading Brooks before season's end.
Smid is a great add for CGY, and his absence will hurt EDM in the short-term (because they are so weak at that position). But Smid, while solid, is nothing special for teams with an above average blue-line. He's a mid-tier guy at best, and in no way superior to any of the players on our current roster or our top D prospects. Good for CGY and EDM has a lot of young D coming up, but this doesn't bother me one bit as a Pens fan.
So you think the organization would rather spend money resigning Orpik than Martin? Their D signing next summer will be a Martin extension, and that will preclude an Orpik re-sign.
If they saw Orpik in their plans, they would have extended him this past summer. Instead they signed Scuderi.
.....
So I know everyone wants there to be exciting deals and new players and all that, but I don't see a lot of great alternatives out there for our cap money.
Smid is DEFINITELY better than Brooks Orpik. Orpik's reputation is overblown because he plays for a much higher-profile team.
I wonder where Orpik's career would be if HE were the one playing for a non-contender the last 5-7 years.
Smid is better than Orpik is right now for sure. Orpik at his peak, I'm not so sure. Not that it matters.
he peaked in the spring of 2009, basically. You might be right, Ogre, but it certainly wasn't a lengthy peak.
I still respectfully disagree. I watch a lot of Oiler games and Smid is good in comparison to who else they have on their blueline. If you don't believe me, just look at the facts: a team that is SCREAMING for defensemen (EDM) doesn't trade Smid for a couple of prospects just to open up room for a huge ??? in Bryzgalov if he is such a solid Dman, especially when he's signed for the next several years at a "reasonable" cap hit.
And while I would totally agree with the assertion that his play the last few seasons was not where it was in 08/09 (which is why I wanted to move him when his value was high/had more term on his deal), I have to eat some crow and admit that I am very and pleasantly surprised with his level of play this season. Perhaps it's because of the reasons he mentioned: this was the first off-season in a while in which he had no injuries and was able to train at a high level and without interruption in the offseason.
So you think the organization would rather spend money resigning Orpik than Martin? Their D signing next summer will be a Martin extension, and that will preclude an Orpik re-sign.
If they saw Orpik in their plans, they would have extended him this past summer. Instead they signed Scuderi.
I know people like to call this a country club, but what better players were available than Kunitz or Dupuis for the money? Clarkson, Horton, Clowe, Filppula, all getting 25 mil+ and insane term? The only other options were retreads like Iggy and Alfredson for 5.5-6. All of that sucks in a regular year, but with the low cap, it's truly awful. I was mildy excited about the prospects of getting Clark freakin' Macarthur who I thought would go for 2mil x 2 or something, but he got 3.25 x 2.
Everyone's darling Cal Clutterbuck has all of 1G 1A in 12 games so far. 2.75 mil x 4 for him.
And we did let Matt Cooke go, didn't we?
So I know everyone wants there to be exciting deals and new players and all that, but I don't see a lot of great alternatives out there for our cap money.
1. Yes I do. I absolutely believe Shero would sign Orpik and overspend on Martin. 100%. Like I said, I can easily see a 5yr, $4.5-5mil Orpik signing and a 5yr $5-5.5mil Martin signing. Shero has proven time and time again that going with old, tried and true is better than letting go and bringing in someone young. I just honestly do not see how one could argue that. Many times Shero has been in the position to be rid of an aged vet but instead chose to bring them back. If you don't think Adams and Glass will be on this team next year, you're dreaming.
2. Kunitz and Dupuis signing, alright I'll give you that the options were not the best out there, even though I would rather had any of the guys you named over Dupuis. What I hated about the signings the most was the length. Especially for guys that are entering the twilight of their careers. A 2yr deal for both, and I would have been fine with it. Hated everything about the Letang signing so...there's that.
Shero's hesitance to let go of vets and bring up youth/prospects is hindering the organization. Orpik, Dupuis (1st line Dupuis), Glass, Adams, and Letang (at that price) should have been out the door last year.
You really think Orpik has been good, this season?
jmelm, you know better than most that there could be a number of reasons why Edmonton did this deal...but I'll throw out TWO possibilities:
- They are without a shadow of a doubt completely CLUELESS, and have been ever since Kevin Lowe took control of the operation.
- They are tanking because they really want Aaron Ekblad and believe he is the No. 1 D-man they sorely lack. They didn't do a good enough job tanking last season, and it cost them a shot at Seth Jones. This time, they wanna do it right.
Personally, I think the first one but there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest the second one.
But the bottom line is, ANY team that dumps Smid to sign Bryzgalov has lost its mind!
If we must bring back a veteran d-man I'd rather we re-sign Orpik and trade Martin. Both similar ages, but Orpik's cap hit will be about a million less and I think he brings more of what we need where as Martin is just more of what we already have (both on the current roster and in the system).
But Bortuzzo doesn't really replace Orpik's nastiness.. I mean, we have both right now and we're still not nasty enough for most of our liking.
I don't think nastiness is a problem on the defense. I'm fine with having guys like Scuds, Despres and Bort who can box guys out in the front of the net and handle them along the boards to allow for their partners to get a clean breakout.
I think we're lacking nastiness up front. Guys who can make it hard on opposing D-men.
1. Yes I do. I absolutely believe Shero would sign Orpik and overspend on Martin. 100%. Like I said, I can easily see a 5yr, $4.5-5mil Orpik signing and a 5yr $5-5.5mil Martin signing. Shero has proven time and time again that going with old, tried and true is better than letting go and bringing in someone young. I just honestly do not see how one could argue that. Many times Shero has been in the position to be rid of an aged vet but instead chose to bring them back. If you don't think Adams and Glass will be on this team next year, you're dreaming.
2. Kunitz and Dupuis signing, alright I'll give you that the options were not the best out there, even though I would rather had any of the guys you named over Dupuis. What I hated about the signings the most was the length. Especially for guys that are entering the twilight of their careers. A 2yr deal for both, and I would have been fine with it. Hated everything about the Letang signing so...there's that.
Shero's hesitance to let go of vets and bring up youth/prospects is hindering the organization. Orpik, Dupuis (1st line Dupuis), Glass, Adams, and Letang (at that price) should have been out the door last year.