Speculation: Brooks Orpik

Ogrezilla

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If we must bring back a veteran d-man I'd rather we re-sign Orpik and trade Martin. Both similar ages, but Orpik's cap hit will be about a million less and I think he brings more of what we need where as Martin is just more of what we already have (both on the current roster and in the system).

Martin is simply a MUCH better hockey player than Orpik is. I would keep Martin at 5M over Orpik at 2.5M. I don't care about salary or guys coming up. I want Orpik off of this team after this year. He just isn't very good anymore. And he isn't really even nasty anymore.
 

jmelm

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Martin is simply a MUCH better hockey player than Orpik is. I would keep Martin at 5M over Orpik at 2.5M. I don't care about salary or guys coming up. I want Orpik off of this team after this year. He just isn't very good anymore. And he isn't really even nasty anymore.


This be the truth, guy. And I'm not hung up on the "nastiness" factor that much because while I admit there we will lose some physicality, we will make up for it with someone who brings better D-zone coverage, more ability to chip in offensively, etc.


The key thing that's great about Orpik is, besides the pure nastiness, he can go up against bigger bodies players. But so can Despres or Dumoulin, both of whom are a fair bit bigger than Orpik. I do believe Despres will become more nasty as he develops, but both of those 2 guys are strong and, most importantly, big & strong enough to box out most of the bigger forwards in the league. It's very common for young Dmen to add that nasty component as they get older and we've seen that with Bortuzzo, who was never this nasty in the OHL or even quite this much in the AHL. I'm sure we'll see this with a lot of our other young Dmen, as well.
 

wgknestrick

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This be the truth, guy. And I'm not hung up on the "nastiness" factor that much because while I admit there we will lose some physicality, we will make up for it with someone who brings better D-zone coverage, more ability to chip in offensively, etc.


The key thing that's great about Orpik is, besides the pure nastiness, he can go up against bigger bodies players. But so can Despres or Dumoulin, both of whom are a fair bit bigger than Orpik. I do believe Despres will become more nasty as he develops, but both of those 2 guys are strong and, most importantly, big & strong enough to box out most of the bigger forwards in the league. It's very common for young Dmen to add that nasty component as they get older and we've seen that with Bortuzzo, who was never this nasty in the OHL or even quite this much in the AHL. I'm sure we'll see this with a lot of our other young Dmen, as well.

Is it a defender's job to be nasty or keep pucks out of their own net? I think Bortuzzo just has a high compete level that can be mistaken as nastiness. Orpik hasn't had a high compete level for about 3-4 years, be he is nasty....as in the gap that he gives forwards is nasty.
 

Fordy

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The young guys coming up can stand to learn lot from Martin and Scuderi. They won't learn anything from Orpik and Letang but bad habits.
 

jmelm

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Is it a defender's job to be nasty or keep pucks out of their own net? I think Bortuzzo just has a high compete level that can be mistaken as nastiness. Orpik hasn't had a high compete level for about 3-4 years, be he is nasty....as in the gap that he gives forwards is nasty.


Yes, I would trade him now (or a while ago) if it were up to me. What I really meant by "nastiness" was physicality, and I won't deny that other players (Despres/Dumo) don't have that element now, but will make up for it in other way, and will learn to become more physical as they develop.


The young guys coming up can stand to learn lot from Martin and Scuderi. They won't learn anything from Orpik and Letang but bad habits.

You know what? The young guys (Maatta has already said this and Despres could certainly learn from this) would learn a hell of a lot by seeing how intense, serious, learned and committed Letang is. If Despres trained with Letang this summer, he'd probably be on the team right now. Letang wore the "C" on his team Canada jersey for a reason, and he'll get an "A" on his jersey the minute Orpik leaves. He leads by example. There's a hell of a lot most players can learn from him.
 

Jacob

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Not sure I'm seeing what everyone else is seeing in Martin. In my view he's reverted back to his pre-2013 form with weak clears and passes, getting outmuscled and not putting up nearly enough points for a guy that's QBing the top powerplay unit.
 

Ogrezilla

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Not sure I'm seeing what everyone else is seeing in Martin. In my view he's reverted back to his pre-2013 form with weak clears and passes, getting outmuscled and not putting up nearly enough points for a guy that's QBing the top powerplay unit.

Martin has easily been our best d-man so far this year. If you don't see that I'm not sure what you are watching. Its really not even close. Then again, if you are expecting him to outmuscle guys and QB a top powerplay, then I guess I see why you are disappointed.
 

IcedCapp

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You know what? The young guys (Maatta has already said this and Despres could certainly learn from this) would learn a hell of a lot by seeing how intense, serious, learned and committed Letang is. If Despres trained with Letang this summer, he'd probably be on the team right now. Letang wore the "C" on his team Canada jersey for a reason, and he'll get an "A" on his jersey the minute Orpik leaves. He leads by example. There's a hell of a lot most players can learn from him.

Let's work on getting Letang an A by tomorrow.

(I don't think he will. Hasn't Kunitz worn the 3rd A a majority of games this year?)
 

Jacob

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I don't expect him to outmuscle guys, but I do expect him to be not so easily outmuscled when he has the puck. And to actually have the wrist strength to get the puck down the ice on a penalty kill. And while he's not a true powerplay QB, if you're in that role, you should have more than 3 points in 16 games.
 

AjaxTelamon

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I don't expect him to outmuscle guys, but I do expect him to be not so easily outmuscled when he has the puck. And to actually have the wrist strength to get the puck down the ice on a penalty kill. And while he's not a true powerplay QB, if you're in that role, you should have more than 3 points in 16 games.

Note sure who you're talking about here, but Martin has 6 points so far, and our PP hasn't been so great. He's been our best defender for a while now, and the organization seems to understand that. There is a reason he takes the opposition's best players, and it sure isn't Orpik.

As much as people might want Orpik back, or might like to provocatively speculate he's coming back, this organization has clearly prioritized their key players and negotiated with them the minute they were able to within the CBA. Kunitz was quietly extended, here is a quote about that extension per Kasan at NHL.com:

"At his final season meeting, the Penguins asked Kunitz if he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh. Kunitz said he did. The deal came together in the last few days and was finalized quickly. "

Did this happen with Orpik?
 

DegenX

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Note sure who you're talking about here, but Martin has 6 points so far, and our PP hasn't been so great. He's been our best defender for a while now, and the organization seems to understand that. There is a reason he takes the opposition's best players, and it sure isn't Orpik.

As much as people might want Orpik back, or might like to provocatively speculate he's coming back, this organization has clearly prioritized their key players and negotiated with them the minute they were able to within the CBA. Kunitz was quietly extended, here is a quote about that extension per Kasan at NHL.com:

"At his final season meeting, the Penguins asked Kunitz if he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh. Kunitz said he did. The deal came together in the last few days and was finalized quickly. "

Did this happen with Orpik?

IIRC didn't happen that way with Dupuis, either. Or Adams. Both contracts were up when Shero re-signed them. I'd like to think that this is Orpik's last season in a Pens uniform, but just because he hasn't been extended at this point doesn't mean he won't be.
 

Ugene Magic

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Note sure who you're talking about here, but Martin has 6 points so far, and our PP hasn't been so great. He's been our best defender for a while now, and the organization seems to understand that. There is a reason he takes the opposition's best players, and it sure isn't Orpik.

As much as people might want Orpik back, or might like to provocatively speculate he's coming back, this organization has clearly prioritized their key players and negotiated with them the minute they were able to within the CBA. Kunitz was quietly extended, here is a quote about that extension per Kasan at NHL.com:

"At his final season meeting, the Penguins asked Kunitz if he wanted to stay in Pittsburgh. Kunitz said he did. The deal came together in the last few days and was finalized quickly. "

Did this happen with Orpik?


What? Remind me who Martin's partner is again?

Jacob is correct Martin hasn't been the best D-man this year either, and if we all want to be correct and up until Letang getting back, Niskanen was our best D-man while partnered with Scuderi. Orpik and Martin both taking on the tougher shut down pairing minutes are both tied with 6 points, but one has a better +/- rating and Orpik has played one extra game, so....I'd say both of these guys have played very similarly by virtue of being opposite kinds of D-man and are equally needed for this team. They, along with Scuderi and Niskanen carried this team up to this point. It worked. Take out Scuderi now and add Letang, defensively, this team took a huge hit.

The Kunitz deal cannot be used as a example of what Orpik has to compete with. Kunitz doesn't have his job threatened with possible many replacements just about ready for the jump. I think it's a wait and see if there are "enough" standouts to allow Orpik to walk. There might just be, but they won't know until the very bitter end next year(end of season/playoffs) before they know for sure they have a solid fill in for him. Just because Kunitz got his isn't indicative to what's happening in Orpik's situation. They're two totally different scenarios. One has multiple guys pushing for spots and the other has(remember this is the top six we're talking about) one for sure in the future, but guess what? There's a spot open for him next season already, so that leaves all but none to force Kunitz out.

You don't think they'll ask Orpik should they decide when it's appropriate at the end of this season. They'll either figure they're good to go without him, or ask him the very same question they asked Kunitz if they feel he's still needed.

It's doesn't matter what I think, or anyone else, it's a time figurative matter with, Orpik.

I think when we get to Martins turn next year we'll all be debating the same issue, and it all is dependent on the D-prospects, again. Orpik has one advantage though, he doesn't have multiple replacements for his forte, whereas, Martin does, and Orpik's first inline to get a extension should there be any doubts in those prospects.

IIRC didn't happen that way with Dupuis, either. Or Adams. His contract was up when Shero re-signed him. I'd like to think that this is Orpik's last season in a Pens uniform, but just because he hasn't been extended at this point doesn't mean he won't be.

Exactly. Two totally different situations going on.
 

jmelm

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Let's work on getting Letang an A by tomorrow.

(I don't think he will. Hasn't Kunitz worn the 3rd A a majority of games this year?)

It's been the same as the last year or two, I believe: Orpik wears the A at home, Kunitz on the road.

The reason not to give it to Letang previously? It doesn't help you when you're negotiating a contract to give the guy an A and tell him just how important he is if you want financial leverage. The reason not to take it away from Orpik yet? It tells him (and the rest of the league) that he has no future there and will diminish his trade value because other teams/GMs will read it as him being valued less & a less important player, and wouldn't help Shero in getting the best return if he's trying to shop him. It could also affect his play adversely because it's a slap in the face, and if we're keeping him, whether it's just for this season or to showcase him for a trade, we want his confidence and game as good as it can be.
 

tyratoku

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So I've read through the last few pages of this thread and have pretty much come to the conclusion that most of you guys want Orpik gone after this season?

It's been a few weeks since the last post in this thread. Has that changed at all? Do you guys actually see management letting him go?

I ask because I've been a pretty big fan of the guy over the years and love his playing ferocity and hitting factor. I would absolutely love to see the Wild go after him if he gets to free agency. Anchoring the second pairing with a guy like Ballard would be fantastic, IMO.

Anybody care to give some insight?
 

Ogrezilla

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So I've read through the last few pages of this thread and have pretty much come to the conclusion that most of you guys want Orpik gone after this season?

It's been a few weeks since the last post in this thread. Has that changed at all? Do you guys actually see management letting him go?

I ask because I've been a pretty big fan of the guy over the years and love his playing ferocity and hitting factor. I would absolutely love to see the Wild go after him if he gets to free agency. Anchoring the second pairing with a guy like Ballard would be fantastic, IMO.

Anybody care to give some insight?
I, for one, think he should be traded when Scuderi and Martin are healthy. I don't think he's one of our 4 best d-men. I don't think he's one of our 6 best actually. Maybe right at number 6. But for the money, we'd be better off with forward depth.

Re-signing him after this year would be one of the worst moves Shero could make.
 

Captain Hook

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I still want him gone because at some point drafting all these D-Men high in the draft like we have doesn't really pay off or matter if you don't clear roster spots for them and keep re-signing and playing the same group of veterans.

Orpik is still serviceable. He hasn't declined much physically. He's still a big, mobile defensive D-Man. I think he'd do best in a very simple structured defensive system because decision making and hockey sense are not exactly his strong points as a player, imo. Like I said though, it's hard to find big mobile D like him so someone will obviously want him.
 

BumFortyOne

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So I've read through the last few pages of this thread and have pretty much come to the conclusion that most of you guys want Orpik gone after this season?

It's been a few weeks since the last post in this thread. Has that changed at all? Do you guys actually see management letting him go?

I ask because I've been a pretty big fan of the guy over the years and love his playing ferocity and hitting factor. I would absolutely love to see the Wild go after him if he gets to free agency. Anchoring the second pairing with a guy like Ballard would be fantastic, IMO.

Anybody care to give some insight?

Some people here think he's terrible and want him gone ASAP. Others, myself included, think he should be let go after the season because Maatta and Despres will be ready to take on his minutes and responsibilities at lower cap hits.

Orpik I think is still a valuable guy, especially to a team that's guaranteed to make the playoffs. He doesn't play with the same fire during the regular season presumably in an effort to save his body for the playoffs. And he's still prone to making poor decisions with the puck at times or lose his man in defensive zone coverage.

But he can still skate and bring a high intensity level come the playoffs, at least for now. I'm not sure how much longer his body will hold up or how much longer he'll be a top-four defenseman. People on here will tell you that he's already past that point.

I'm also not sure that he's the type to "anchor" a pairing either. He's been at his best when his partner is more steady than he is, but then he's been on the top pairing here for years. He might be more suited to a second pairing role at this point and moving forward.
 

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