Speculation: Brodie or Hamonic?

[Flames Fanatic]

but all you have to do it look at the two cup finalists this year. All three got big production out of their top 9. All got huge performances out of their 1C's (we won't get that), so we better improve the depth of the roster moving forward.

Arguably the Blues forward and D depth beat the Bruins. While Boston's top line struggled at times, I thought their 2nd line was awful most of the series, especially Krejci.

 

[Fig]

Yes but I don't want Anderson on the top pairing and I don't really want Hanifin or Valimaki on the bottom pairing. I don't think Anderson is close to good enough defensively to play the minutes you want Gio playing and then Gio has to cover for him a ton as well which limits his effectiveness. Valimaki being a much better defender would be a better fit to play with Gio if he were a RHS.

Thats why if they flipped sides you have:

Gio-Valimaki
Hanifin-Hamonic
Anderson-Stone

So your solution was over promote Valimaki and over demote Anderson?

Maybe this is a better solution:

Hanifin - Stone
Valimaki - Anderson
Hamonic - Kylington
Gio = 3LW

 

[super6646]

So your solution was over promote Valimaki and over demote Anderson?

Maybe this is a better solution:

Hanifin - Stone
Valimaki - Anderson
Hamonic - Kylington
Gio = 3LW

Plan the parade...

I mean the crazy parade, as there is some special stuff being spread around here right now

 

[Fig]

Plan the parade...

I mean the crazy parade, as there is some special stuff being spread around here right now

Join the crazy conga!

 

[Baxterman]

So your solution was over promote Valimaki and over demote Anderson?

Maybe this is a better solution:

Hanifin - Stone
Valimaki - Anderson
Hamonic - Kylington
Gio = 3LW

Anderson isn't over demoted he is a 3rd pairing talent playing on the 3rd pair.

Yes it might be a bit of a jump for Valimaki but with his ability I think he will be fine.

 

[super6646]

Just as an fwi, Brodie still isn’t on the trade bait board despite the recent comments by bob mackenzie:

https://www.tsn.ca/trade-bait-jets-exploring-ehlers-trade-options-1.1324471

Frolik, Hammer, and Neal (I ducking wish) are all on the list. Either they are missing big time, or they know something we don’t.

 

[DFF]

Just as an fwi, Brodie still isn’t on the trade bait board despite the recent comments by bob mackenzie:

https://www.tsn.ca/trade-bait-jets-exploring-ehlers-trade-options-1.1324471

Frolik, Hammer, and Neal (I ducking wish) are all on the list. Either they are missing big time, or they know something we don’t.

Neal on the trade board is bad news.

We may have to add a good pick or prospect and eat some salary just to get rid of his ass

 

[super6646]

Neal on the trade board is bad news.

We may have to add a good pick or prospect and eat some salary just to get rid of his ass

I doubt he’s getting moved. I’m sure tre would love a mulligan rn, but he’s not trading the first or one of our prospects to get rid of him this season. They’ll bank on him bouncing back (I doubt it tbh) or buy him out/bribe Seattle in 2 years.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Just as an fwi, Brodie still isn’t on the trade bait board despite the recent comments by bob mackenzie:

https://www.tsn.ca/trade-bait-jets-exploring-ehlers-trade-options-1.1324471

Frolik, Hammer, and Neal (I ducking wish) are all on the list. Either they are missing big time, or they know something we don’t.

And yet Hamonic was mentioned as off the market and looking to extend by Lebrun.

The trade bait board is largely to get clicks. They may know something, but a lot of the times the names on there don't make 100% sense.

 

[crackdown44]

I’d retain 1.75mil on Neal and maybe Nashville would bite for Turris. Bad contract for bad contract. We get a better player and Nashville saves 2mil and brings a guy back who has had success there

At least Turris is still an effective player when he’s not producing

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Hathaway + Neal (1 million retained) for Turris?

 

[SmellOfVictory]

And yet Hamonic was mentioned as off the market and looking to extend by Lebrun.

The trade bait board is largely to get clicks. They may know something, but a lot of the times the names on there don't make 100% sense.

I will say that a deal around Hamonic for Ehlers would be really intriguing. If Winnipeg is looking to be competitive again next year maybe Frolik and Hamonic could be packaged for Ehlers to restore their defensive depth without losing too much forward depth (naturally HFBoards is going to think that's a terrible value since Frolik and Hamonic are both older than Ehlers).

Also this is based on Ehlers being able to play RW, which I thought he had done pretty regularly.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I’d retain 1.75mil on Neal and maybe Nashville would bite for Turris. Bad contract for bad contract. We get a better player and Nashville saves 2mil and brings a guy back who has had success there

At least Turris is still an effective player when he’s not producing

That is downright awful. You are essentially suggesting that we pay Kyle Turris 7.75M a year for the next four years, and to make things worse he has an additional year on his contract after that as well.

How exactly is Kyle Turris an effective player when he is not producing? He played some of the most sheltered minutes in the league last season (68% offensive zone starts, which ranks him 6th highest in the NHL among regulars), had only 78 shots on net in 55 games, does not kill penalties, does not play physical, and is the very definition of average in the faceoff circle. Kyle Turris was given every opportunity to produce last season and failed miserably. I would go as far as to say he had a worse season than Neal all things considered.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Does Brodie suck now? The Pens repeat kinda turned me off of hockey for a few years so I haven't been keeping up.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Does Brodie suck now? The Pens repeat kinda turned me off of hockey for a few years so I haven't been keeping up.

He’s somewhere in between Duncan Keith and Jake Gardiner.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Hamilton wasn't a fast transition mobile defencemen. He was just a shooter with good corsi, so I can understand how you'd get that confused.
I'm not losing sleep without Brodie. I'm not losing sleep without Hamonic. Neither guy is untouchable if the right deal comes along, it's what I've been saying the entire time.

I hear you one front, but, consider this? With our cap issues it is prudent to move out a veteran piece/salary or 2. Let's say Tre moves out both Brodie and Hamonic, you have to be 100% sure that he gets a viable RHS D player with lower salary who can jump in & play now! We don't have anymoreyoung, prospect RHS D with top 2 pair upside in the system. How do we run with RAndersson , M Stone & ??
Where do we find a cheaper RHSshot D, cost controlled who can play decent minutes, responsibility?

 

[GumbyCan2]

So your solution was over promote Valimaki and over demote Anderson?

Maybe this is a better solution:

Hanifin - Stone
Valimaki - Anderson
Hamonic - Kylington
Gio = 3LW

[/QUOrTE]
Wut u talkin' 'bowt Willis?

Better fill your glass. The bottom is getting murky, eh.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Oops. '

 

[Volica]

I hear you one front, but, consider this? With our cap issues it is prudent to move out a veteran piece/salary or 2. Let's say Tre moves out both Brodie and Hamonic, you have to be 100% sure that he gets a viable RHS D player with lower salary who can jump in & play now! We don't have anymoreyoung, prospect RHS D with top 2 pair upside in the system. How do we run with RAndersson , M Stone & ??
Where do we find a cheaper RHSshot D, cost controlled who can play decent minutes, responsibility?

I’ve never been a proponent of selling both, but one or the other is fine. This teams’ defensive depth is strong enough where if you can make a major upgrade elsewhere on the roster in a hockey trade for either Hammer or Brodie, we should do it.

Our offence has been sketchy for years. The defence to me has been solid; irregardless of how much non HF hockey fans say it was bad.

 

[Fig]

Better fill your glass. The bottom is getting murky, eh.

Sounds like your sarcasm detector is broken.

But an excuse to refill the glass... hey, why not?

 

[super6646]

So I was looking at possession stats since 2015 for both Hamonic and Brodie. I think it paints a very interesting trend overall:

2015:

Brodie: 46.3%CF (+2.6CFR%)

Hamonic: 50.4%CF (-4.6CFR%)

2016:

Brodie: 49.6%CF (+1.6CFR%)

Hamonic: 49.7%CF (+0.7CFR%)

2017:

Brodie: 50.0%CF (-0.8CFR%)

Hamonic: 43.0%CF (-5.7CFR%!!!)

2018:

Brodie: 50.8%CF (-3.6CFR%)

Hamonic: 50.9%CF (-3.7CFR%)

2019:

Brodie: 56.0%CF (+3.3CFR%)

Hamonic: 53.5%CF (-1.4CFR%)

 

[Lunatik]

Comparing corsi of an offensive defenseman to a defensive defenseman has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen on here. It's like those clever folks that compare goal totals between a goal scorer and a playmaker.

 

[super6646]

Comparing corsi of an offensive defenseman to a defensive defenseman has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen on here. It's like those clever folks that compare goal totals between a goal scorer and a playmaker.

It’s just interesting conjecture... I think you missed the greater point of it all.

And since we are talking about defensive dman with mediocre possession stats, well I think it should be noted that Regehr was an amazing defensive dman with Calgary, yet took a step decline into his early 30s and was out of the league at 34. As far as the stat is tracked, he was never a positive relative possession player...

You can look at vlasic or, in a more extreme sense, alzner as two defensive dman who had been consistent possession drags to their teams and have shown varying amounts of decline. In the later’s case, going from 20 minutes a night on the presidents trophy winner to playing in the AHL on a team that has kulak in their top 4.

I mentioned in this thread that tre should be wary of giving significant term to hamonic unless it comes at a great discount compared to Brodie. I haven’t seen any evidence thus far to see that as a poor assumption.

 

[Lunatik]

It’s just interesting conjecture... I think you missed the greater point of it all.

And since we are talking about defensive dman with mediocre possession stats, well I think it should be noted that Regehr was an amazing defensive dman with Calgary, yet took a step decline into his early 30s and was out of the league at 34. As far as the stat is tracked, he was never a positive relative possession player...

You can look at vlasic or, in a more extreme sense, alzner as two defensive dman who had been consistent possession drags to their teams and have shown varying amounts of decline. In the later’s case, going from 20 minutes a night on the presidents trophy winner to playing in the AHL on a team that has kulak in their top 4.

I mentioned in this thread that tre should be wary of giving significant term to hamonic unless it comes at a great discount compared to Brodie. I haven’t seen any evidence thus far to see that as a poor assumption.

Comparing Corsi between teams is about as smart as comparing +/- between teams, it's just not a good stat to do that with. You also have to factor in linemates and usage, which you blatantly ignore because it is counterproductive to the point you are trying to fabricate.

The only 2 years worth a damn are last season and this season. Last season is a decent comparable because they played together for much of the season. This year less so because Brodie was carried by a Norris winning Gio, while Hamonic had to carry Hanifin. So good for Brodie, he had a moderately better Corsi while playing with a Norris winner and getting more offensive zone starts!

 

[super6646]

Comparing Corsi between teams is about as smart as comparing +/- between teams, it's just not a good stat to do that with. You also have to factor in linemates and usage, which you blatantly ignore because it is counterproductive to the point you are trying to fabricate.

The only 2 years worth a damn are last season and this season. Last season is a decent comparable because they played together for much of the season. This year less so because Brodie was carried by a Norris winning Gio, while Hamonic had to carry Hanifin. So good for Brodie, he had a moderately better Corsi while playing with a Norris winner and getting more offensive zone starts!

Yes, and that is why I used relative possession Lunatik. It factors in playing on a crappy team or a good team, so Brodie wasn't garbage in 2014-15 despite his 46.3CF%.

And about your usage point BTW:

2015:

Brodie: 25:13/game, 59.5%DZS

Hamonic 21:47/game, 48.8%DZS

2016:

Brodie: 25:15/game, 51.8%DZS

Hamonic: 23:49/game, 50.1%DZS

2017:

Brodie: 23:35/game, 52.1%DZ

Hamonic: 20:27/game, 56.1%DZS

2018:

Brodie: 23:41/game, 49.9%DZS

Hamonic: 20:42/game, 50.1%DZS

2019:

Brodie: 21:28/game, 48.0%DZS

Hamonic: 20:52/game, 50.0%DZS

It seems pretty clear Brodie has gotten greater and more varied usage throughout his career. Brodie did see his minutes cut down this year as a result of less special teams time (no longer on the 1st pp unit), but he's still the flames #1 dman at ES. The only argument that can be had against Brodie is he has played with Giordano (and Gio has had pretty much all of his career years with Brodie), while Hamonic spent most of his time with the Islanders with Leddy or CDH (who by all means are still pretty solid dmen, but aren't in the same caliber). Otherwise, I don't really see your point.