Speculation: Brodie or Hamonic?

[Ace Rimmer]

I don't care who we trade. Kylington will be this teams 1D in 2 seasons anyways.

Wait, this is an awkward part of the calendar. Do you mean two seasons from 2018-19, or two seasons from 2019-20?

 

[Body Checker]

I'd trade Brodie for a few assets; its all about asset management in a cap system

 

[Fig]

Wait, this is an awkward part of the calendar. Do you mean two seasons from 2018-19, or two seasons from 2019-20?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a good point.

HAS GIO RETIRED YET?????

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This is the Calgary Flames board not the Stockton Heat board. Fam.

Kylington was essentially the Bobby Orr of the AHL. He’s onto bigger things.

 

[super6646]

Kylington was essentially the Bobby Orr of the AHL. He’s onto bigger things.

That's just a terrible comparison. How can you compare a legend in Kylington to a scrub like Orr? f***ing joke... and I mean sexually too.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Kylington was essentially the Bobby Orr of the AHL. He’s onto bigger things.

So he’s retiring soon?

 

[Fig]

So he’s retiring soon?

Knees less to say...

 

[Deen]

Kylington is Bobby Orr now? Must be summer. Side note, it actually bugs me his name is pronounced "Shillington".

 

[super6646]

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-6...to-part-with-pieces-for-young-d-man-1.1320359

9 minute mark. Sunk cost fallacy really doing its work it seems. They trade Brodie and this backfires and I’m done with tre. After all the shit about getting faster, I’ll be extatic to see one of the slowest right sides in the nhl do it’s work this coming season with a declining Giordano on the way.

 

[Fig]

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-6...to-part-with-pieces-for-young-d-man-1.1320359

9 minute mark. Sunk cost fallacy really doing its work it seems. They trade Brodie and this backfires and I’m done with tre. After all the **** about getting faster, I’ll be extatic to see one of the slowest right sides in the nhl do it’s work this coming season with a declining Giordano on the way.

I believe Treliving mentioned that getting faster isn't always about getting players who skate faster. I seem to recall puck movement being a comment of his in regards to being a faster team somewhere along the Gully/Peters transition.

I also somehow seem to recall comments somewhere about the play being faster if you win face offs as you immediately dictate the play rather than play catch up to regain possession.

For a while, the Ducks seemed like the Flames blueprint, especially with the Burke connection. But with Burke gone, Treliving overhauled the roster from that prototype and while I'm not totally sure what the blue prints are based on any more, Treliving definitely seems to hint it's nearing a point he's comfortable in going all in on.

 

[Calculon]

Trading Brodie would be bad. Re-signing Hamonic on top of that to a longterm deal would be horrible. And yeah, Andersson-Hamonic-Stone would be a terribly slow right side.

But I guess the market for Hamonic isn't what Treliving had hoped. Would be both surprising and not that surprising at the same time.

 

[crackdown44]

Keep both unless you get an overwhelming offer

I don’t really agree with the notion that either of these guys are going to demand massive long term raises with trade protection or they’re going to walk

I think both want to stay and will work with management to get reasonable deals done e.g Hamonic 4x5 Brodie 5x5.5

Then you likely lose one to Seattle and that’s that. If you trade one or both now and then lose another D to Seattle we’d be absolutely gutted. Plus it’s still possible that any 1 of our 3 young D studs regress or don’t reach their projections. Not to mention Gio is in his twilight

 

[Fig]

Let's say we keep both. Some fans are going to go nuts... But...

Gio- Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Fantenberg - Anderson
Stone/Prout
-------
Valimaki - Yeselin
Kylington - X

Optics aside, it works contractually and you literally sit around waiting for a stupid overpay for Hanifin, Fantenberg, Valimaki or Kylington to fall into your lap.

Treliving could easily bluff this scenario and get full value from whoever is most desirable.

I dunno why, but Hanifin to Montreal or NJD seems like something worth pursuing. Both want top 4 LD and a decent top 6 + futures could shake out of those clubs. I would super love to pry out a guy like Domi or Hall.

 

[super6646]

I believe Treliving mentioned that getting faster isn't always about getting players who skate faster. I seem to recall puck movement being a comment of his in regards to being a faster team somewhere along the Gully/Peters transition.

I also somehow seem to recall comments somewhere about the play being faster if you win face offs as you immediately dictate the play rather than play catch up to regain possession.

For a while, the Ducks seemed like the Flames blueprint, especially with the Burke connection. But with Burke gone, Treliving overhauled the roster from that prototype and while I'm not totally sure what the blue prints are based on any more, Treliving definitely seems to hint it's nearing a point he's comfortable in going all in on.

Can’t bold on my phone, but in regards to your point about transition, that’s definitely not something that’ll improve by subtracting Brodie.

Look, I’ve gone on and on about this. Keep hamonic if you want, there is nothing wrong with that, but then don’t trade the only other right side puck moving dman who can skate relatively well. This team is ruining their ability to play a fast style if they continue selling off pieces of their defense who are capable of that. It’s a little upsetting seeing just how many assets went into building up that right side, and how the net gain is relatively little in the end.

 

[Volica]

Can’t bold on my phone, but in regards to your point about transition, that’s definitely not something that’ll improve by subtracting Brodie.

Look, I’ve gone on and on about this. Keep hamonic if you want, there is nothing wrong with that, but then don’t trade the only other right side puck moving dman who can skate relatively well. This team is ruining their ability to play a fast style if they continue selling off pieces of their defense who are capable of that. It’s a little upsetting seeing just how many assets went into building up that right side, and how the net gain is relatively little in the end.

To continue doing something, you have to do it once.
Unless you viewed Kulak as a major transition piece for Calgary?

 

[super6646]

To continue doing something, you have to do it once.
Unless you viewed Kulak as a major transition piece for Calgary?

So Hamilton and potentially Brodie aren’t selling off pieces of the right side defense? Treliving has spent a #12, #15, 4 second round picks, and numerous lower round picks to build that stockpile, and the net result next year could be Andersson, hamonic, and Yelesin/Stone. Considering hamonic has missed 13, 8, and 33 games the past three years (and has never played a full season), your asking for the later two to play top 4 minutes for good chunks of the year, and expecting a sophomore who played 16 minutes a night to fill a top pairing role. Sorry chief, I ain’t impressed

 

[Volica]

So Hamilton and potentially Brodie aren’t selling off pieces of the right side defense? Treliving has spent a #12, #15, 4 second round picks, and numerous lower round picks to build that stockpile, and the net result next year could be Andersson, hamonic, and Yelesin/Stone. Considering hamonic has missed 13, 8, and 33 games the past three years (and has never played a full season), your asking for the later two to play top 4 minutes for good chunks of the year, and expecting a sophomore who played 16 minutes a night to fill a top pairing role. Sorry chief, I ain’t impressed

Hamilton wasn't a fast transition mobile defencemen. He was just a shooter with good corsi, so I can understand how you'd get that confused.
I'm not losing sleep without Brodie. I'm not losing sleep without Hamonic. Neither guy is untouchable if the right deal comes along, it's what I've been saying the entire time.

 

[super6646]

Hamilton wasn't a fast transition mobile defencemen. He was just a shooter with good corsi, so I can understand how you'd get that confused.
I'm not losing sleep without Brodie. I'm not losing sleep without Hamonic. Neither guy is untouchable if the right deal comes along, it's what I've been saying the entire time.

But there is a limit Volica. You can’t seriously expect for all of our defensive prospects to pan out. And if Treliving is screaming for defensive depth, then his moves are hypocritical. Here’s the way I see it panning out; assuming Brodie is moved, these are our potential lineups:

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone

Giordano-Hanifin
Valimaki-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson

Giordano-Hamonic
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Stone

2/3 of the lineups don’t open up a spot for kylington, and frankly, the team can give its youth opportunity without having to gamble that they pan out:

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Hamonic

If Andersson is ready for more minutes, evaluate at the deadline. Gives management a chance to see what he’s capable of, while settling Valimaki into the lineup.

 

[Fig]

Can’t bold on my phone, but in regards to your point about transition, that’s definitely not something that’ll improve by subtracting Brodie.

Look, I’ve gone on and on about this. Keep hamonic if you want, there is nothing wrong with that, but then don’t trade the only other right side puck moving dman who can skate relatively well. This team is ruining their ability to play a fast style if they continue selling off pieces of their defense who are capable of that. It’s a little upsetting seeing just how many assets went into building up that right side, and how the net gain is relatively little in the end.

My comment leaned more along the lines of the idea of maintaining Hamonic rather than discussing trading Brodie. Let's say we move Hamonic. Are we getting an upgrade on him on the right side? With the current UFA crop (stay away plz Tre) and the rumored available players, I think we'd end up paying a bunch for barely an upgrade to Hamonic. That post is also just mentioning that acquiring physically speedy dmen isn't necessarily the answer. We need dmen who have great poise and can make fast accurate plays possibly irregardless of physical abilities.

See the post before your post about the idea of keeping both Brodie and Hamonic.

But there is a limit Volica. You can’t seriously expect for all of our defensive prospects to pan out. And if Treliving is screaming for defensive depth, then his moves are hypocritical. Here’s the way I see it panning out; assuming Brodie is moved, these are our potential lineups:

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone

Giordano-Hanifin
Valimaki-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson

Giordano-Hamonic
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Stone

2/3 of the lineups don’t open up a spot for kylington, and frankly, the team can give its youth opportunity without having to gamble that they pan out:

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Hamonic

If Andersson is ready for more minutes, evaluate at the deadline. Gives management a chance to see what he’s capable of, while settling Valimaki into the lineup.

All I'm going to say, is that I think we've been seriously spoiled by Gully (yeeep) and Peters in terms of man games lost. Having farm hands ready for call up is often considered "burying" now. Many of us seethe at the idea that an NHL quality dman isn't in our NHL roster. On many other teams, those players are constantly getting opportunities due to man games lost on the back end.

 

[Volica]

But there is a limit Volica. You can’t seriously expect for all of our defensive prospects to pan out. And if Treliving is screaming for defensive depth, then his moves are hypocritical. Here’s the way I see it panning out; assuming Brodie is moved, these are our potential lineups:

Giordano-Andersson
Hanifin-Hamonic
Valimaki-Stone

Giordano-Hanifin
Valimaki-Hamonic
Kylington-Andersson

Giordano-Hamonic
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Stone

2/3 of the lineups don’t open up a spot for kylington, and frankly, the team can give its youth opportunity without having to gamble that they pan out:

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Hamonic

If Andersson is ready for more minutes, evaluate at the deadline. Gives management a chance to see what he’s capable of, while settling Valimaki into the lineup.

I only expect the two sure-things to pan out in Andersson and Valimaki.
Both guys are top 6 guys already, and both guys will be top 4 guys shortly; I think Valimaki has some ridiculous upside. I honestly can see him as a Josi type defender, minus maybe the A-level offensive output. I'm also not sold Stone will be part of the lineup come start of the season.

Here's the thing I keep circling back around to, if we can make a tangible improvement on the top 6 at the cost of Brodie/Hamonic I think the defence can take the lump... I honestly don't think our offense can take not having another top talent there. Remember, once our top line dried up and Tkachuk struggled; this team was done. We were relying on our 4th line to win games down the stretch... hell, they won us a game in the playoffs too!

Here's my thoughts:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Neal

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Stone

is inferior to:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Kadri - Bennett
Kapanen - Backlund - Neal

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - X
Kylington

Where X is someone of the Lovejoy ilk

This is just a random proposal, but the premise is the improvement to our top 9 is super tangible. We are an ultra deep team. The backend can take a hit. We will miss Hammers or Brodie's 20-22 minutes a night, but Valimaki and Andersson are ready to take some extra minutes, and with the improvement to the front end, we improve the overall play of this team.

 

[crackdown44]

I only expect the two sure-things to pan out in Andersson and Valimaki.
Both guys are top 6 guys already, and both guys will be top 4 guys shortly; I think Valimaki has some ridiculous upside. I honestly can see him as a Josi type defender, minus maybe the A-level offensive output. I'm also not sold Stone will be part of the lineup come start of the season.

Here's the thing I keep circling back around to, if we can make a tangible improvement on the top 6 at the cost of Brodie/Hamonic I think the defence can take the lump... I honestly don't think our offense can take not having another top talent there. Remember, once our top line dried up and Tkachuk struggled; this team was done. We were relying on our 4th line to win games down the stretch... hell, they won us a game in the playoffs too!

Here's my thoughts:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Neal

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Andersson
Kylington - Stone

is inferior to:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Kadri - Bennett
Kapanen - Backlund - Neal

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - X
Kylington

Where X is someone of the Lovejoy ilk

This is just a random proposal, but the premise is the improvement to our top 9 is super tangible. We are an ultra deep team. The backend can take a hit. We will miss Hammers or Brodie's 20-22 minutes a night, but Valimaki and Andersson are ready to take some extra minutes, and with the improvement to the front end, we improve the overall play of this team.

I don’t think you’re getting Kadri + Kap for Brodie + Janko

Needless to say the value of trading somebody always depends on what you get in return. Therefore we can’t meaningfully value whether or not it’s a good idea to trade Brodie/Hamonic without knowing what we’d get in return

 

[Baxterman]

I thinking moving Brodie is by far the better move for a number of reasons.

A. His skating and puck moving ability is wildly overrated. Yes he can skate but it seems he uses to get himself out of position as much as he does use it as an asset. Yes it helps him recover after his numerous flubs meaning he isn't a total liability but

B. his skating will likely convince teams to overpay.

C. Hamonic is a flat out better player, likelier to sign for a better deal and a better fit with the roster we have.

Anderson and Brodie would be terrible partners for Hanifin. While Anderson is not ideal a partner for Gio, at least Gio can carry him around and make up for his errors and then when you need the team to buckle down defensively you can move Hamonic up there to play the tough minutes,

The real issue I see with the defense going forward is you have 3 top 4 guys on the left and no reason to trade any of them. It likely means Valimaki has to spend more time on the bottom pairing than he should but I am fine with that and he can get minutes on the PK or in late game lead situations while Hanifin sits.

Edit:

It really is a shame that Anderson and Valimaki are not opposite shots as:

Gio-Valimaki
Hanifin-Hamonic
Anderson-Stone

would be an ideal set up going forward.

 

[Fig]

Edit:

It really is a shame that Anderson and Valimaki are not opposite shots as:

Gio-Valimaki
Hanifin-Hamonic
Anderson-Stone

would be an ideal set up going forward.

?????

Valimaki is a LHS and Andersson is a RHS.

Gio -Andersson
Valimaki - Hamonic

Makes sense if you want LHS/RHS pairings.

 

[Baxterman]

?????

Valimaki is a LHS and Andersson is a RHS.

Gio -Andersson
Valimaki - Hamonic

Makes sense if you want LHS/RHS pairings.

Yes but I don't want Anderson on the top pairing and I don't really want Hanifin or Valimaki on the bottom pairing. I don't think Anderson is close to good enough defensively to play the minutes you want Gio playing and then Gio has to cover for him a ton as well which limits his effectiveness. Valimaki being a much better defender would be a better fit to play with Gio if he were a RHS.

Thats why if they flipped sides you have:

Gio-Valimaki
Hanifin-Hamonic
Anderson-Stone

 

[Volica]

I don’t think you’re getting Kadri + Kap for Brodie + Janko

Needless to say the value of trading somebody always depends on what you get in return. Therefore we can’t meaningfully value whether or not it’s a good idea to trade Brodie/Hamonic without knowing what we’d get in return

I'm not saying we would, but it's what kind of trade that would make sense.
Right?
Like if we could add a legit top 6 forward or maybe two in a trade, you just do that.

I'm really not advocating to move TJ or Hammer just for the sake of rebuilding, or getting some draft picks (unless the picks are then used to make a bigger deal); but if the right deal comes along, where you can move either one of them to make a significant upgrade on your forward group, you do it.

This defence was dynamic this year and one of the reasons that we were so successful... but all you have to do it look at the two cup finalists this year. All three got big production out of their top 9. All got huge performances out of their 1C's (we won't get that), so we better improve the depth of the roster moving forward.