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Who had the better career, who was the better player? Ultimately, who would you pick as your offensive defensemen first between the two?
How about Leetch's play in the 96 WC?Niedermayer had the more accomplished career, but Leetch has a much higher peak. His play in the 1994 playoffs is far better than anything Niedermayer ever reached. The problem for Leetch is that his play tailed off in his later career.
Niedermayer had the more accomplished career, but Leetch has a much higher peak. His play in the 1994 playoffs is far better than anything Niedermayer ever reached. The problem for Leetch is that his play tailed off in his later career.
Leetch in 94 is up there with not only the best playoff runs by a defensemen, but one of the best period. 3rd in goals, 1st in assets and points while playing on a very deep team. Messier gets a lot of credit (that is deserved) for the guarantee and leading the Rangers, but Leetch was an absolute machine that year.
I have MacInnis way ahead of Leetch. Better two way player and had a much longer prime. I never thought of Leetch being good all around. He was purely an offensive defenseman. The only comparable between them is they had two of the greatest playoff runs of any defensemen in history in 1989 and 1994. Leetch and Niedermayer are better comparables. Great skaters. More offensive minded.Speaking of great and dominating playoffs for defensemen, not counting Niedermayer's Conn Smythe which at the very least was questionable to the tune of the Williams one, MacInnis is a much better comparable for Leetch. They might have had a different skillset to wreck havoc offensively but i find them like a pear and apple really, having their offense separating them from the pack but also being good all around. Leetch obviously was a bit uneven and with a shorter prime that makes him rank lower, but not by much.
Then compare MacInnis to Niedermayer and we can see the large distance of the latter up to Leetch as well.
Leetch was pretty fair defensively from time to time, of course relied on his speed to get back into position. However i hope someone else can go deeper into it becouse there is no doubt that he was known to be poor defensively at some stages in his career.I have MacInnis way ahead of Leetch. Better two way player and had a much longer prime. I never thought of Leetch being good all around. He was purely an offensive defenseman. The only comparable between them is they had two of the greatest playoff runs of any defensemen in history in 1989 and 1994. Leetch and Niedermayer are better comparables. Great skaters. More offensive minded.
This is Leetch for sure. If we use it against Leetch that he tailed off a bit after 30 - which is rare for an elite defenseman - then we have to do the same thing for Niedermayer in reverse that he never really became elite until he was 30.
I truly believe that as of the 1997 offseason, Leetch was trending for a career superior to Stevens & MacInnis, and close to Chelios. It makes Messier leaving for Vancouver, the Robitaille trade, and the Rangers' collapse one of my bigger (albeit homer) "what-ifs" in recent NHL history.
Perfectly said. I make this case a lot. Recency bias. People underrate Coffey, Leetch, even Chelios, and overrate Pronger, Niedermayer, to some degree Lidstrom (note: all listed are sure fire HOFers, I'm not trying to disparage any of them).
I think it's more of Leetch always being a really heavy PPP producer and Niedermeyer playing a more complete game, less reliant on points.
In fact Leetch scored 52.7% of his career points on the PP, Niedermeyer just 33.1%
Niedermayer scored 45.3% of his career points on the PP.
I have slept on it now, was it that he lost his fair defense near the end of his offensive prime? Like he just could not do both at the same time by that point? Or was he just up and down regarding that throughout his career like Letang?Leetch was pretty fair defensively from time to time, of course relied on his speed to get back into position. However i hope someone else can go deeper into it becouse there is no doubt that he was known to be poor defensively at some stages in his career.
While Niedermeyer indeed didn't win a Norris until age 30 he was still an elite Dman before that.
He played 25 MPG aged 25-29 for 2 SC Devils teams.
He also played in the WC for Canada at age 23 and in the Olympics at age 28.
Leetch does have the higher peak and more sexy scoring stats but these 2 are closer than some are making out here.
Niedermayer from 1992-2003 had one season where he was a 2nd team all-star and that was 1998. Outside of that he finished 12th in Norris voting. That's it. I know we romanticize Niedermayer but the honest truth is the reason he was picked for Canada in 1996 and 2002 and probably should have been in 1998 was his skating and sooner or later we all figured he was going to realize the thing we all knew about him was that he could skate and should use it as a weapon more than once every 10 games. When the 2003 playoffs came he broke out, then won the Norris in 2004 and then had two great seasons in 2006 and 2007. Then had that weird semi-retirement and played 3 more seasons, never coming close to the Norris but having a reputation as a great defensemen.
In reality his prime was 2003-'07. Not long at all. It should have been longer and he should have figured things out long before 2003. It was basically 10 years where he was on the cusp of breaking out, yet he never did. Leetch pretty much dove into his prime right away. From 1988-'97 that was his prime and it was much better than Niedermayer's. Not to mention even post 1997 when Leetch was saddled with poor teams he still finished 5th and 8th for the Norris. Leetch was better in his prime, had a longer prime, and was better post 1997 than Niedermayer was pre-2003.
I honestly don't know how this isn't Leetch in a landslide. MacInnis to me has an edge over Leetch. This is noticeable because MacInnis was good right until the end. But compare MacInnis to Niedermayer and it isn't even close. Leetch is closer to MacInnis than he is Niedermayer. But either way the separation is there.
Is there anyone who takes Niedermayer on their team as a GM over Leetch?
Leetch really gets the nod in peak and prime for his elite PP QB liability and that's the real difference between the 2 guys.
Niedermayer had the more accomplished career,
I'm sure you mean "ability" here, right?