Brian Lee over Jack Johnson???

[Vlad The Impaler]

i agree. reilly gets a bad rap for being defensive over USA hockey...

I don't know that chap, but if he always behaves like he did in this thread, his bad rap is well deserved.

It sucks, because I was hoping to learn more about Lee and Johnson. I wouldn't have worded the question the way the thread originator did but it was still salvageable. Instead, we get a whine-fest on how American prospects are victims of a conspiracy.

American prospects join a long list of victims. If I had a dollar every time someone complains about Blues, Stars, Habs, Leafs, Wild, Preds (to name just a few because they've all gotten the shaft if you've been around here long enough) and now American prospects get the shaft, I'd be rich.

I'm still intrigued by Johnson's ommision, for what it's worth. Eager to learn more about Lee as well. And very skeptical that a guy who is reportedly a more skilled version of Phaneuf didn't make that blueline, team concept or not.

So, anyone wants to take a shot and tell us more about those two Ds?

 

[PuckFan01]

Are you implying Johnson is less coachable or questionable as a TEAM PLAYER?

Though I doubt he'll admit it, I believe bigd has a son in the USA program. Unfortunately, bigd seems to enjoy saying some negative things about some of the other kids in the program.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't know that chap, but if he always behaves like he did in this thread, his bad rap is well deserved.

It sucks, because I was hoping to learn more about Lee and Johnson. I wouldn't have worded the question the way the thread originator did but it was still salvageable. Instead, we get a whine-fest on how American prospects are victims of a conspiracy.

American prospects join a long list of victims. If I had a dollar every time someone complains about Blues, Stars, Habs, Leafs, Wild, Preds (to name just a few because they've all gotten the shaft if you've been around here long enough) and now American prospects get the shaft, I'd be rich.

I'm still intrigued by Johnson's ommision, for what it's worth. Eager to learn more about Lee as well. And very skeptical that a guy who is reportedly a more skilled version of Phaneuf didn't make that blueline, team concept or not.

So, anyone wants to take a shot and tell us more about those two Ds?

I don't know, but Lee was only out there for like 2 or 3 minutes total the entire game. Hardly noticable. Johnson would've had the same role at this point, and they might've figured it'd be best for his development to just leave him at school. I'm honestly not sure or even really have a reason, but that's as good as I can think of.

 

[Sammy*]

I don't know, but Lee was only out there for like 2 or 3 minutes total the entire game. Hardly noticable. Johnson would've had the same role at this point, and they might've figured it'd be best for his development to just leave him at school. I'm honestly not sure or even really have a reason, but that's as good as I can think of.

What about, maybe he's not good enough?
Why is that so difficult for some to believe?

 

[FSH2003]

I'm a huge fan of Brian Lee, but he would have had an extremely hard time adjusting to the speed of the game if he would have played yesterday. Hopefully he'll get some ice time on monday.


P.S. He is really really good.....

 

[Hab Fan]

What about, maybe he's not good enough?
Why is that so difficult for some to believe?

Not true, at least according to just about all NHL GM's. Johnson's mission has nothing to do with not being good enough, rather the US wants stay at home, pretty non physical type Dmen. If you saw yesterdays game, there were maybe two hits the ENTIRE game. That is why Johnson is projected to be a top 2-3 NHL draft pick, he plays a more NHL type game than the others. Certainly no knock on the others at all, just different styles (except Suter). I guess if you were to predict who is where in 3-5 years, Johnson will surpass probably all of them. Further, I would add that Bobby Ryan should have made the team and maybe Brule with Canada. Does this mean they are not as good as some on the team? Certainly not!

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Not true, at least according to just about all NHL GM's.

So, what have NHL GMs said about this kid?

 

[Hab Fan]

So, what have NHL GMs said about this kid?

Ken Holland said " he is the perfect combination of Lidstrom and Konstantinov" Dave Taylor said " franchise player". These are direct quotes and NOT rumors. Tim Higgins, Blackhawks scout, said " franchise player that has it all, complete package".

 

[markov`]

And very skeptical that a guy who is reportedly a more skilled version of Phaneuf didn't make that blueline, team concept or not.

At the same age Phaneuf didn't made Team Canada either, keep this in mind.

 

[Hab Fan]

At the same age Phaneuf didn't made Team Canada either, keep this in mind.

Good point, in fact there have been plenty of great players who didn't make it at 17 or at all-John-Michael Liles?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Ken Holland said " he is the perfect combination of Lidstrom and Konstantinov" Dave Taylor said " franchise player". These are direct quotes and NOT rumors. Tim Higgins, Blackhawks scout, said " franchise player that has it all, complete package".

Thanks! Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have links?

 

[Reilly311]

So what happend to the "Brule is overrated because he didn't make Team Canada" thread?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

At the same age Phaneuf didn't made Team Canada either, keep this in mind.

Dion Phaneuf wasn't hyped like that kid either. And making team Canada's blueline is no small feat. We have a formidable defenseman factory.

No disrespect to USA, but a kid who is touted as a future Konstantinov/Lidstrom package has to show amazing stuff as we speak, and should probably make that blueline. I still do not understand how such a guy wouldn't make that team.

As you can see by my nickname, I am a huge Vlad Konstantinov fan but I think even someone who doesn't like him would see Holland's praise as a tall order. Unless I am mistaken, the program Johnson is part of is still very highly regarded too so you'd think that would be a good thing. I can understand USA might not always be willing to include CHLers for instance (Schremp last year).

Here we have a kid who has been compared to all sorts of major stars, reportedly has silky smooth skills and hits everything in sight. He's supposed to be the complete package and should end up similar to Norris calibre players.

But he doesn't make team USA's blueline?

Hell, the way everybody makes it sound, I would have gladly welcomed him on Canada's blueline. This is about as much praise as Bouwmeester got, and he made team Canada at a very young age.

This is that kind of top 3 phenom I envision, unless I am mistaking something in the reports. I'm not talking Phaneuf-level. Phaneuf wasn't all that great in his draft year. Like Rick Nash, he has progressed very well. He was top 10-12 good but was not seen as top 5 good. Phaneuf was rather shaky IMO when rushing the puck at that age. He could be erratic sometimes. He has improved a lot.

This seems different. Maybe the US coach made a mistake not including him. Maybe the hype is a mistake. Maybe there is another reason. I don't really know but I am still curious.

 

[Hab Fan]

Dion Phaneuf wasn't hyped like that kid either. And making team Canada's blueline is no small feat. We have a formidable defenseman factory.

No disrespect to USA, but a kid who is touted as a future Konstantinov/Lidstrom package has to show amazing stuff as we speak, and should probably make that blueline. I still do not understand how such a guy wouldn't make that team.

As you can see by my nickname, I am a huge Vlad Konstantinov fan but I think even someone who doesn't like him would see Holland's praise as a tall order. Unless I am mistaken, the program Johnson is part of is still very highly regarded too so you'd think that would be a good thing. I can understand USA might not always be willing to include CHLers for instance (Schremp last year).

Here we have a kid who has been compared to all sorts of major stars, reportedly has silky smooth skills and hits everything in sight. He's supposed to be the complete package and should end up similar to Norris calibre players.

But he doesn't make team USA's blueline?

Hell, the way everybody makes it sound, I would have gladly welcomed him on Canada's blueline. This is about as much praise as Bouwmeester got, and he made team Canada at a very young age.

This is that kind of top 3 phenom I envision, unless I am mistaking something in the reports. I'm not talking Phaneuf-level. Phaneuf wasn't all that great in his draft year. Like Rick Nash, he has progressed very well. He was top 10-12 good but was not seen as top 5 good. Phaneuf was rather shaky IMO when rushing the puck at that age. He could be erratic sometimes. He has improved a lot.

This seems different. Maybe the US coach made a mistake not including him. Maybe the hype is a mistake. Maybe there is another reason. I don't really know but I am still curious.

You make some good points. I can't explain, I can only assure you of this, the kid is better in every way to more than one WJ d-man. It can only boil down to the coach and his opinions as to the team, needs etc. The US coaches are NOT Johnson's biggest supporters, because he doesn't play their shoot it off the glass, no penalty type game. Johnson is using the program for DEVELOPMENT where as the coaches, who by the way are first time head coaches, are using this for their stepping stones. I know this sounds harsh, but it is true. The concept of the program is great, execution is lousy. I have heard this from many of the hockey people around, NOT parents. There are a number of top kids that turn it down. Back to Johnson. I too am a huge Vlady fan. Trust me, Johnson is old fashioned tough like Vlady AND can score. The kid didn't fit their mold. Remember, he too is only 17 and a young one at that. He is 6' 1" 210 and growing still. He seems to get better every year. Yes I like the kid and have seen him play over 100 times in the last few years. I travel extensively and enjoy the young kids and watching them develop. saw this kid years ago and have followed him along, he is real regardless of not making the US Team. I am Canadien and would LOVE to have him wearing the Maple Leaf!!!!!

 

[Sammy*]

Not true, at least according to just about all NHL GM's. Johnson's mission has nothing to do with not being good enough, rather the US wants stay at home, pretty non physical type Dmen. If you saw yesterdays game, there were maybe two hits the ENTIRE game. That is why Johnson is projected to be a top 2-3 NHL draft pick, he plays a more NHL type game than the others. Certainly no knock on the others at all, just different styles (except Suter). I guess if you were to predict who is where in 3-5 years, Johnson will surpass probably all of them. Further, I would add that Bobby Ryan should have made the team and maybe Brule with Canada. Does this mean they are not as good as some on the team? Certainly not!

I understand what you are saying, but obviously the coaches felt that whatever it is that Johnson brings to the table, that was surpassed (for this year at least) by what Lee brings to the table.
Thats what I mean by not being good enough.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What about, maybe he's not good enough?
Why is that so difficult for some to believe?

If you've ever seen him play, you wouldn't be sayign that.

Why do you think we all have been scratching our heads?

 

[Hab Fan]

If you've ever seen him play, you wouldn't be sayign that.

Why do you think we all have been scratching our heads?

You are sooooo right. I have seen him play and can't figure it out. Anyway, he'll be fine down the road, just watch. He'll do better than ANYONE on the US defence now, including Suter in the long run.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I don't know that chap, but if he always behaves like he did in this thread, his bad rap is well deserved.

The thread started in an inflammatory way. Intentionally or not, it rose my blood pressure a bit (being a Johnson fan who was dumbfounded by the move made by Team USA. Johnson is better than half the team's defense)

And his first reply in the thread was also filled with name-calling, etc.

So Reilly is getting ripped a bit much, IMO.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Thanks! Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have links?

I don't trust the Lidstrom-Konstantinov quote.
I'm not sure it was ever quoted in an article.

He has potential the kind of player who glues a team together, I think, in an eddie Jovo kind of way.

RIght now, I have just two issues with him.
1. He hits an awful lot for a guy who isn't exactly hulking.
2. He needs work on positioning in his own end.

But come on.
Those are two problems anyone would overlook when you're getting his speed, his shot, his passing, his SKATING and his TENACITY.
He'll learn defensive positioning.

 

[Hab Fan]

I don't trust the Lidstrom-Konstantinov quote.
I'm not sure it was ever quoted in an article.

He has potential the kind of player who glues a team together, I think, in an eddie Jovo kind of way.

RIght now, I have just two issues with him.
1. He hits an awful lot for a guy who isn't exactly hulking.
2. He needs work on positioning in his own end.

But come on.
Those are two problems anyone would overlook when you're getting his speed, his shot, his passing, his SKATING and his TENACITY.
He'll learn defensive positioning.

Whether you believe the quote from Ken Holland is not important, it was said and I have to trust in the confidentiality when it was said and with whom. No he isn't hulking, but strong as heck, and as I've noted before, he is 6'1 210 with 6% body fat. Hitting is also a state of mind. Defensive positioning is so easy to teach, he runs around , as some say, because he can, and recover! Granted, that won't work at Michigan, but I believe the kid knows the difference. As you said, the skills he has can not be taught now, you either have them or not by now. This kid will be a stud for someone. I am not being critical of your comments, just elaborating.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Whether you believe the quote from Ken Holland is not important, it was said and I have to trust in the confidentiality when it was said and with whom.

It might not be important to you but it is to me.

I would be extremely misinformed if I started trusting every unsubstantiated report making the round on the internet and so would you.

Good for you if you are privy to what no less than three GMs think of Johnson but I will take it with a grain of salt for now until I find genuine articles of some kind.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

It might not be important to you but it is to me.

I would be extremely misinformed if I started trusting every unsubstantiated report making the round on the internet and so would you.

Good for you if you are privy to what no less than three GMs think of Johnson but I will take it with a grain of salt for now until I find genuine articles of some kind.

Whats even better, is that this guy(Hab Fan) goes to games, interacts with scouts/GM's/Professionals...and you are trying to take him down and dispute his statements by saying you need to read articles!!!??

The only way you should be talking for this long about doubting Johnson as a prospect, is if you got out YOURSELF and SAW him with your OWN eyes. Why dont you do this for us, if you actually saw him maybe you could come back with a constructive comparison and information about his game.

It is unbelievable how you continue to judge talents based on articles. Articles? articles? articles mean **** bud! And even if there were articles quoting GM's on Johnson, so what, Would you believe the GM who took lets say, Alex Volchkov? or any other bust?

Sry if this comes off rude, but hey.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Whats even better, is that this guy(Hab Fan) goes to games, interacts with scouts/GM's/Professionals...and you are trying to take him down and dispute his statements by saying you need to read articles!!!??

The only way you should be talking for this long about doubting Johnson as a prospect, is if you got out YOURSELF and SAW him with your OWN eyes. Why dont you do this for us, if you actually saw him maybe you could come back with a constructive comparison and information about his game.

It is unbelievable how you continue to judge talents based on articles. Articles? articles? articles mean **** bud! And even if there were articles quoting GM's on Johnson, so what, Would you believe the GM who took lets say, Alex Volchkov? or any other bust?

Sry if this comes off rude, but hey.

Shouldn't that be "Sorry if this comes off rude but hey I don't care about sources and don't think you should either"

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Whats even better, is that this guy(Hab Fan) goes to games, interacts with scouts/GM's/Professionals...and you are trying to take him down and dispute his statements by saying you need to read articles!!!??

Who is he? What does he do? I don't know that guy. How am I supposed to know whether his claims are credible or not? He's claiming inside info. It's very cool if it's true but how can I know?

Sorry, but there are routinely guys who come to this site and claim weird stuff. If I start believing all these claims, I will be more misinformed than if I ask for a source.

The only way you should be talking for this long about doubting Johnson as a prospect, is if you got out YOURSELF and SAW him with your OWN eyes. Why dont you do this for us, if you actually saw him maybe you could come back with a constructive comparison and information about his game.

If I could see Johnson myself, I would do so and would not waste time asking question about him. Was that hard to figure out?

It is unbelievable how you continue to judge talents based on articles.

I do that? That's news to me.

Articles? articles? articles mean **** bud! And even if there were articles quoting GM's on Johnson, so what,

If there were articles on Johnson, I feel I would at least get some more data to reflect upon until I can see him. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about pretty strong, unsubstantiated claims that a number of GMs are extremely high on this kid and throwing amazing comparisons.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe these GMs said that until I can trust the source. Simple common sense.

Would you believe the GM who took lets say, Alex Volchkov? or any other bust?

Probably not but for now, it's unfortunately the only way I can follow Johnson. I unfortunately can't see the kids in this program. That's when I turn to this site and articles for info.

Sry if this comes off rude, but hey.

It came off as stupid. If you do not believe at all in the written word, you do realize you're completely wasting your time on a hockey message board, don't you?

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Sorry, but there are routinely guys who come to this site and claim weird stuff. If I start believing all these claims, I will be more misinformed than if I ask for a source.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe these GMs said that until I can trust the source. Simple common sense.

That's when I turn to this site and articles for info.

I understand your worries of believing someone on this site. But it isnt like his story wavers. I've seen about 60 posts of him having the same opinion and description of Johnson. He isnt someone who has registered for a day and then disappeared.

You contradict yourself when you say you wouldnt "believe all these claims", but then say "thats when I turn to this site". Isnt that exactly what this site is? People with biased views on prospects they've seen/read about/judged on stats?

The only reason why I dont doubt or bother Hab Fan about his info, is that it has correlated and agreed with other sources at different times. For example, the past tourney where Johnson dominated. His stock rose, and Hab Fan wasnt the only one praising him.

Let me ask you this, what do you think of Johnson yourself? I'd like to know how you felt about him, rather than the your concerns of the validity of Hab Fan posting about him.