Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by Will Hunting, Jan 5, 2019.
Great trade by JR !!!
Vlasic has had multiple 30+ pt seasons.
You can’t use the Vlasic played with Burns, Boyle and Ehrhoff thing, because Dumo has played with Letang.
Seabrook has put up 7 goals or more 9 times in his career.
They’re just better all around players. It is no slight to Dump. He’s a great # 3 and a top pairing stud when he’s got an offensive weapon next to him.
That's the name of a number 2 dman though.
Let me say this. I believe Dumo has # 2 potential, but he hasn’t proven it here outside of a few games in the playoffs.
And even then his pairing kind of sucked in two of the four series if I remember right.
trying to get people to agree with what makes someone a #2 vs #3 is tough. It really depends on how the team is built. With Letang, I think Dumo is damn near perfect as our #2. If he was better offensively, we'd probably want him as our #3 running the 2nd pairing. So being better could easily see him "demoted" on the depth chart.
Yeah labels are so subjective when you break it up from 1-6. He’s a very good top pair D man on our team and that’s all we should care about.
Love Dumoulin and think he is a great top pairing defensive defenseman but he does not derserve more than $6 million. $4 million is a great deal for him but really hard to get $6 million unless you have a more offensive game.
I agree the Dumoulin-Letang pairing is one of the best in the NHL this year. I think that pairing being able to shut down other teams best players and Murray healthy and playing at his normal abilities allows this team to take out any team in the NHL. This team has all the pieces to get it done once Schultz gets back.
Really in the Cap era it is hard to put a better team together. We all would like Brassard to be putting up better numbers but he is a quality Center. Being able to have a Pearson-Brassard-Kessel 3rd line is insane for Cap era. Also now that Simon, Aston-Reese, and Cullen are heating up this team has depth everywhere. Backup goalie leading league in GAA for goalies on pace for 50 starts or more. Murray on god mode. This might be the best team Pens have had since they dominated in the first of the back to back Cups. Plus JR has over $5 million to add at the deadline. If the team stays healthy we will be a tough out.
Depends on someone’s definition of what a number 2 is. I think Dumoulin is an unquestionable #2. For me a good number 2 is a defenseman that can play on the top unit while playing great defensive game that lets the #1 use his offensive abilities. Dumoulin does that perfectly just like an Orpik did in his prime years with the Pens. Ulf in his day was an amazing number 2 that could play against the other teams top winger and make their life miserable. Dumoulin doesn’t do that but is very solid defensively going against the best players in the game. Dumoulin also is a very good skater.
Schultz is what you look for in a good #3 which is an offensive defenseman that can play PP time and put up good points and distribute the puke up to help the forwards. I think Malkin’s game picks up big time once Schultz gets back and is able to get the puck up to that 2nd line. Nice thing about Schultz is that he can fill in for a #1 if needed which he did with a 51 point season when Letang went out.
We have many guys that can be decent #4’s in my opinion. Maatta has done it for years and we won 2 Cups with him in that spot. Johnson has played top 4 minutes all year and has been the 3rd in minutes played for many games. Last game against the Jets he had the 2nd most minutes and was a +2. Also Pettersson and Riikola in my opinion can play top 4 minutes also. It is nice to have 7 players that can play top 4 minutes. I think we could lose any 2 left defenseman and still put out a defense that we could win with. Dumoulin would be a loss but not as bad as losing Letang 2 years ago or even having a not completely back to normal Letang last year.
Dumoulin probably being the biggest factor why that trade worked out. Imagine otherwise. Sutter meh and Pouliot meh.
I know Sutter turn into Bonino, but had they only drafted properly with that pick they'd be sitting pretty sick at both wings. Maatta was with our own pick, and they got lucky there, but they could have been set with having Forsberg at LW. To the point they could have moved on sooner with some players, but you can't gripe about results.
Just wait some more years when cap raises even more. Dumo is signed till 2023. He is probably worth around 6M now, will be even more going forward as he matures even more and cap raises even more. I mean Schultz is making 5.5M per now, Dumo is easily more important than that. Even Maatta is making more than Dumo. Around the league it is even worse. That contract is ridiculously good for us, I think we can all agree with that.
But Schultz can carry a pairing.
People point to Dumo as some revelation in 16-17, I’d argue Schultz was more impressive especially in the regular season and that is where I disagree that Dumo is Vlasic and Seabrook level. Vlasic and Seabrook both could play Letang minutes and look like a # 1 in their primes.
I was so mad at the time when they picked Pouliot. When the trade went down and we went on the clock I actually said we got Forsberg! Then when they picked Pouliot my heart sunk. Honestly if I could go back in time I dont change anything. You make that pick you might not win back to back Cups. It changes everything and what player combinations had been used. Does the Kessel trade happen? Bottom line you would have to be a fool if you could go back in a time machine and change that pick. Very easily could erase 2 Cups. Crazy to say but all so true.
Dumoulin is still the perfect #2 and Schultz the perfect #3. They do what you want in those spots. Pens have plenty of great options for the #4 spot. Pens defense will be perfectly set up when Schultz gets back. Still wish it was 3 Lefties and 3 righties but can’t ask for everything.
For the cap era this team has depth almost everywhere and no real weakness. That is hard to do in the cap era and even harder when you have many elite players that take up a lot of cap space. JR has really done a nice job with this team. This 2 trades that seemed minor have really made the team stronger. With $5+ million cap space at the deadline it will be interesting what he does.
and this is why I think the notation is tricky. Which role requires the better player, the #2 spot along-side Letang on the top pair, or the #3 spot running the 2nd pair? The answer is obviously "it depends"
He’s the perfect 2 with Kris Letang on the other side.
If he was traded to another team or Letang went down, you start to see his offensive limitations.
I disagree, almost any team has an offensive #1. Schultz would also provide the offense if needed. It is not the #2 responsibility to provide the offense for that pairing. Yes in a perfect world it would be nice if he could put up low 30’s while still providing shut down defense but not the #2’s main job. Main job is to cover for #1 so they can produce. Dumoulin is on pace for 22 which is fine. Maatta’s last year production is the perfect offensive wise for a #2 and if his defense was as good as Dumoulin he would be the perfect #2. Maatta’s defense is great for his skating speed. If only he could skate like Dumoulin. Still a nice #4.
Like I said Dumoulin is the perfect number 2 and Schultz the ideal #3. Don’t think either could do the other persons job.
Dumoulin is one of the better values in hockey. Very steady performer (for the most part) and raises his level of play in the post season
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