Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2013
- 8,930
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Great career, watched him play a lot with the Hurricanes in the WHL and he looked like a man amongst boys most nights. Enjoy life after hockey with Dayna and the kids, it’s well earned.
Brent Seabrook announces [LTIR] retirement
- Thread starter Hockeyfan2390
- Start date
Voight
#winning
We didn't circumvent anything. Hossa + Keith's deals were perfectly legal at the time and we were far from the only team who signed deals like that.
Hossa had a legitimate skin condition that could have been life threatening if he continued to play hockey. Seabs' body is just worn down after all these years.
As for the OP... he'll always have a special place in my heart for being part of the Core Group that was there for all 3 titles. Wonder if they'll do a double retirement for #7 like the Rangers did for #9.
Voight
#winning
This guy was an absolute warrior for the Hawks, for a long time. He gave everything he could to this team, and is now paying the price. He has absolutely nothing left to give physically. Hawks don't win those cups without him. Enjoy life post-hockey, because you've earned it.
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
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I don’t think you know what constitutes an average defenseman in this league if that’s what you really believe.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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I mean, yes, both of those statements are true, but you realize there are some damn fine performances in and around those numbers, right?
A combination of eye test and every analytical stat there is.Because WAR, right?
Please just stop.
ClydeLee
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2012
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No 2 Dmen have played as many NHL Games together. And for a good chunk they were a great top pair.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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Fair enough.
Truth be told, the speed wobbles started in 2013, after a 2012 season where he was far and away the Blackhawks best dman.
Nobody really remembers the fact that mid-way through the 2013 season, the Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Oduya pairings were switched up... largely because Seabrook was struggling and Q wanted a pair to go against the top competition (Keith/Hjalmarsson) and the other to go against weaker competition with more lopsided ozone starts (Seabrook/Oduya).
That worked fine until the Detroit series. Everybody remembers Seabrook coming into the penalty box to console Toews.... nobody remembers Seabrook himself was playing a season-low TOI by that point, cause his game was suffering. It wasn't until the Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Oduya pairs were reunited in that series that the Blackhawks took back control and went on to win the cup (yes, will some key OT goals from Seabrook).
In 2014.... I'm not going to sugarcoat it, Brent Seabrook was terrible. In both the regular season and the playoffs. Babcock hated Subban, and he still took him over bringing Seabrook back from the 2010 roster. That's how objectively trash Brent Seabrook was away from the puck.
2015 he was better... but he wasn't great until the playoffs, when he and the other members of the top 4 went full cyborg and carried the Blackhawks to a 4th cup.
But by that point, the team should have realized, they were getting the last gasps of elite Seabrook play.
Seabrook was a really good offensive D. However, I've always wondered how much of his offensive effectiveness was due to being paired with Keith and having elite offensive forwards.
Mm hmm. The same ones that tell you Patrick Kane isn't an elite player.
Correction, it tells me that P. Kane has had elite seasons, but he has not been elite over the entirety of his career.
ClydeLee
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2012
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Despite usually in a Defensive focused system? He had numerous 9 goal or 10 goal years and had often lead in stretch passes in the league. His abilities generated certainly a lot to help those offensive players
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
- 25,161
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Everybody benefits from who they play with.
That said, Brent Seabrook did a lot to help the Blackhawks.
He was the free-safety staying back when Keith opted to skate the puck up the ice.
He provided the best stretch pass out of the dzone in the NHL, I'd wager, and certainly the best on the Blackhawks.
He was the only real threat from the point on the PP or 5v5 for several seasons.
The Oduya/Hjal pairing was so underrated. Far superior to Keith/Seabrook defensively. As for offense, Oduya could be competent at times; Hjal not so much.
One thing I'll always remember about Seabrook was how he came back like the Undertaker after being knocked out by two of his former teammates, James Wisniewski and Rene Bourque.
And against Anaheim in 2015 he had ~100 minutes played in 3 games over 5 days. He was incredibly resilient and dependable until he wasn't.
I also think the Backes hit is a low point for him and that Hawks team.
And against Anaheim in 2015 he had ~100 minutes played in 3 games over 5 days. He was incredibly resilient and dependable until he wasn't.
I also think the Backes hit is a low point for him and that Hawks team.
No. You said Patrick Kane is no longer an elite player. Which makes your opinions on player evaluation nonsensical and meaningless.
This year he's been borderline elite. His last few seasons were not. My statement was made earlier in the season and was primarily based on his previous few seasons.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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They certainly took on far more defensive responsibility than the Keith/Seabrook pair in their prime.
I'm not sure how much of that was because they were THAT MUCH better defensively, so much as Keith/Seabrook could provide so much more offensively given the opportunity.
I think if you swapped the Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Oduya pairs at their peak, Keith/Seabrook could give you similar defensive impact.... but I don't think Oduya/Hjalmarsson could have taken as much advantage of the moderately softer deployment.
So it made sense to let Oduya/Hjalmarsson handle the tough Dzone stuff, and give Keith/Seabrook the offensive benefit from that work.
You are unwilling or incapable of understanding nuance. Therefore, there seems to be little point in attempting to debate with you.
