Brent Seabrook announces [LTIR] retirement

Amazinmets73

Registered User
Dec 1, 2015
1,014
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They certainly took on far more defensive responsibility than the Keith/Seabrook pair in their prime.

I'm not sure how much of that was because they were THAT MUCH better defensively, so much as Keith/Seabrook could provide so much more offensively given the opportunity.

I think if you swapped the Keith/Seabrook and Hjalmarsson/Oduya pairs at their peak, Keith/Seabrook could give you similar defensive impact.... but I don't think Oduya/Hjalmarsson could have taken as much advantage of the moderately softer deployment.

So it made sense to let Oduya/Hjalmarsson handle the tough Dzone stuff, and give Keith/Seabrook the offensive benefit from that work.
Oh, those are fair points. I've previously stated this:

Elite offense is more valuable than elite defensive in aggregate

A significant portion of defensive effectiveness is linked to effort.

I have no doubt Keith and Seabrook could have performed at a higher level defensively, but at risk to their offensive impact. The Oduya/Hjal pairing simply lacked the offensive talent.
 

Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
2,970
2,413
Cocoa Beach, Florida
Keith - Seabrook were a force for a long time in todays game. Great career and got too much criticism in his last years, his body was just done. He's 2 yrs younger than me and is already talking about a possible hip replacement in 10-20 yrs, if it's not possible to manage it, that's no joke.
Hope he's able to enjoy retirement without vicious health troubles.
He has already had both hips replaced. One didn’t “take” properly. Forcing this move.
 

Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
2,970
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Cocoa Beach, Florida
I stand by what I said. Keith went from being a HoF level defenceman to below average. This wasn't a gradual shift either; it happened in one season. He was only 33 at the time, so I can't attribute it to age. The only thing that makes sense is the knee injury and subsequent surgery he had in 2016.
Keith is no longer a top 5 D-man in the NHL but he is still a top pair and to most still a #1.
Your take is silly and shows a lack of knowledge about the game.
 

iamjs

Registered User
Oct 1, 2008
12,569
931
And Pronger

ClwoJGZUgAAfQJH


and Datsyuk

Clwn5h4VEAAdT_I
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
35,797
16,185
Lol you can even announce your retirement but then say you aren't retired on paper. Well whatever I just want Neal to do this now
 

Amazinmets73

Registered User
Dec 1, 2015
1,014
483
Keith is no longer a top 5 D-man in the NHL but he is still a top pair and to most still a #1.
Your take is silly and shows a lack of knowledge about the game.
He has to ability to play a lot of minutes, is a hard worker and by all accounts a good teammate and veteran presence. His play is poor at worst, mediocre at best.
 

iamjs

Registered User
Oct 1, 2008
12,569
931
The league has to put in some kind of LTIR allowance per team. Every dollar after the allowance (say $5M aav for discussion sake) goes against the cap.

I am not saying that every LTIR is bogus, but you can't ignorethe fact that many teams they have benefited greatly from these deals. You get the productive years at an artificially low cap hit then, when it is time to pay the piper for that front loaded benefit, it is erased. Nothing but upside. There has to be some kind of check and balance here.

Will never happen. How do you set an arbitrary number for it?

Let's say the league allows a figure of $5m in LTIR. What happens when you have two of your highest paid players on the team being put on LTIR? Let's say Skinner and Eichel both are injured on the same night? That's $19m in salary, almost 1/4 of your cap space boom, gone. But you only get about 1/4 of that back? So you're basically telling me (and yes, I know how terrible Skinner, Eichel, and Buffalo are right now, but work with me on this) Buffalo would not be allowed to pick up a $5m+ player for the final stretch of the season if they were heading to the playoffs? LTIR works the way it should. In the words of Paul McCartney, let it be.

Now that said, trading a LTIR contract should be off the table. I agree that some teams (cough*Coyotes*cough) have greatly benefited from trading LTIR players. If your player can't pass a physical, then your player should not be able to be traded.
 

TheTang58

Registered User
Nov 30, 2018
246
152
How does Seabrook not playing through the end of his contract in 2021-2024 help the Hawks win Cups in 2010, 2013, and 2015....?
The Hawks signed all these guys to ridiculously long contracts so they could bring the cap hit down. Then when the guys are past their primes and they get put on LTIR until the contract runs out. Player still gets paid, Hawks are allowed to go over the salary cap. Wash, rinse, repeat.
 

Kalus

Registered User
Sep 27, 2003
1,933
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Florida
Will never happen. How do you set an arbitrary number for it?

Let's say the league allows a figure of $5m in LTIR. What happens when you have two of your highest paid players on the team being put on LTIR? Let's say Skinner and Eichel both are injured on the same night? That's $19m in salary, almost 1/4 of your cap space boom, gone. But you only get about 1/4 of that back? So you're basically telling me (and yes, I know how terrible Skinner, Eichel, and Buffalo are right now, but work with me on this) Buffalo would not be allowed to pick up a $5m+ player for the final stretch of the season if they were heading to the playoffs? LTIR works the way it should. In the words of Paul McCartney, let it be.

Now that said, trading a LTIR contract should be off the table. I agree that some teams (cough*Coyotes*cough) have greatly benefited from trading LTIR players. If your player can't pass a physical, then your player should not be able to be traded.

You'd end up with a system where the team needs to sleep in the bed they made. If you sign a 29 year old to a seven year contract, you better have a cap hit that would reasonably approximate what that player is worth at 36. Realistically, you'd have shorter contracts for older players.
 

TheTang58

Registered User
Nov 30, 2018
246
152
Will never happen. How do you set an arbitrary number for it?

Let's say the league allows a figure of $5m in LTIR. What happens when you have two of your highest paid players on the team being put on LTIR? Let's say Skinner and Eichel both are injured on the same night? That's $19m in salary, almost 1/4 of your cap space boom, gone. But you only get about 1/4 of that back? So you're basically telling me (and yes, I know how terrible Skinner, Eichel, and Buffalo are right now, but work with me on this) Buffalo would not be allowed to pick up a $5m+ player for the final stretch of the season if they were heading to the playoffs? LTIR works the way it should. In the words of Paul McCartney, let it be.

Now that said, trading a LTIR contract should be off the table. I agree that some teams (cough*Coyotes*cough) have greatly benefited from trading LTIR players. If your player can't pass a physical, then your player should not be able to be traded.
There has to be some kind of limit. No one ever "retires" it seems. They just "stop playing". If everyone and their mother knows a player is never playing again, it's ridiculous that a player can be put on LTIR several years in a row until their contract runs out.
 
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