Injury Report: Brendan Smith placed on IR (hurt in fight..)

[JPE123]

Has Smith become the board's whipping boy?

I've been a supporter of Smith for a while now but I have to admit patience is wearing thin. He can be having an okay game and then does some boneheaded turnover or bad pass or be completely out of position. And it's happening too frequently. I don't know what the answer is. He's got talent but I sometimes I think mentally he's not ready for prime time

 

[mindfly]

Has Smith become the board's whipping boy?

Quincey is still the biggest whipping boy

 

[Henkka]

ES GAA/60:

DeKeyser 1.165
Kindl 1.269
Lashoff 1.392
Kronwall 1.639
Ericsson 1.804
Quincey 2.388
Smith 3.294

That Smith value is horrible.

 

[TheOtherOne]

What an idiot. Hanging onto his nhl career for dear life and gets himself injured in a meaningless fight in a meaningless game. Management should tear him to shreds for that and he should sit a few games after he's healed to give him some more time to think about the chances he's wasting

 

[Heaton]

What an idiot. Hanging onto his nhl career for dear life and gets himself injured in a meaningless fight in a meaningless game. Management should tear him to shreds for that and he should sit a few games after he's healed to give him some more time to think about the chances he's wasting

Haha, I'm glad he's out of lineup, but not glad he got hurt. I think you're being a bit extreme though. His NHL career has barely started.

 

[opivy]

Haha, I'm glad he's out of lineup, but not glad he got hurt. I think you're being a bit extreme though. His NHL career has barely started.

While I agree with barely started career, take a look at the guy at the top of the GAA list.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

What an idiot. Hanging onto his nhl career for dear life and gets himself injured in a meaningless fight in a meaningless game. Management should tear him to shreds for that and he should sit a few games after he's healed to give him some more time to think about the chances he's wasting

He's not hanging on to his NHL career for dear life. You guys are taking his play way too far, its getting ridiculous.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

ES GAA/60:

DeKeyser 1.165
Kindl 1.269
Lashoff 1.392
Kronwall 1.639
Ericsson 1.804
Quincey 2.388
Smith 3.294

That Smith value is horrible.

Would love for one of the advanced stats people to explain Smith? Seems a couple will use corsi at all times but are curiously quiet on Smith. Because interestingly enough he has the best corsi for D-man on the team, even his corsi relative puts him just behind Ericsson and Kronwall and 5th on the team.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/on-ice?min_gp=50&season=2013&sort=corsi_pct&team=det

A big part of what seems to be plaguing Smith is a ridiculously bad sv%. Now you can say it is the chances he gives up, but the sub 90% save percentage has a huge impact here. Kindl, DeKeyser and Lashoff all enjoy a higher than 97% sv%. That number is likely to regress while Smith's goes up.

The hate for a guy that has played the number of games he has is borderline hilarious considering the obvious tools. He hasn't quite lived up to his offensive potential when being told not to play any offense and deployed completely wrong.

He can improve a lot and he should continue to, but I don't see him as the worst defender on the team and I am stunned by the amount of people that want to give up on him. I haven't been totally happy with him, but he isn't hanging for dear life and he shouldn't be out of the lineup before Quincey, Lashoff or really even Kindl.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Would love for one of the advanced stats people to explain Smith? Seems a couple will use corsi at all times but are curiously quiet on Smith. Because interestingly enough he has the best corsi for D-man on the tam, even his corsi relative puts him just behind Ericsson and Kronwall and 5th on the team.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/on-ice?min_gp=50&season=2013&sort=corsi_pct&team=det

A big part of what seems to be plaguing Smith is a ridiculously bad sv%. Now you can say it is the chances he gives up, but the sub 90% save percentage has a huge impact here. Kindl, DeKeyser and Lashoff all enjoy a higher than 97% sv%. That number is likely to regress while Smith's goes up.

The hate for a guy that has played the number of games he has is borderline hilarious considering the obvious tools. He hasn't quite lived up to his offensive potential when being told not to play any offense and deployed completely wrong.

He can improve a lot and he should continue to, but I don't see him as the worst defender on the team and I am stunned by the amount of people that want to give up on him. I haven't been totally happy with him, but he isn't hanging dear life and he shouldn't be out of the lineup before Quincey, Lashoff or really even Kindl.

you pretty much explained it. very bad on-ice sv%. bad luck. no one is that bad. not even smitty.

last year he was very lucky in that department. this year so far very unlucky.

some of it is on bad play but not all.

smith and q do have pretty bad fenwick's this year. so they are getting outplayed there. fenwick meaning all shot attempts that aren't blocked. when the score is close, his numbers are bit better.

anyway they tell what we see; he's not playing well, making bad decisions, we know he can be better and is not getting the puck to the net.

 

[newfy]

you pretty much explained it. very bad on-ice sv%. bad luck. no one is that bad. not even smitty.

last year he was very lucky in that department. this year so far very unlucky.

some of it is on bad play but not all.

smith and q do have pretty bad fenwick's this year. so they are getting outplayed there. fenwick meaning all shot attempts that aren't blocked. when the score is close, his numbers are bit better.

anyway they tell what we see; he's not playing well, making bad decisions, we know he can be better and is not getting the puck to the net.

Yep that on ice save percentage is low to the point that its unsustainable, thats bad luck not even Lebda would give up enough chances to maintain that number.

His bad play is overstated, he hasnt been great but this board always needs a whipping boy. Kindl get drooled over but still isnt being trusted as much as Smith who is less experienced and younger. He also didnt get the benefit of playing sheltered minutes to develop. Ericcson was whipped hard here, hes now the wings number 2 dman and a very good player. Smith has more talent than both people need to relax or theyre gonig to be eating even more crow

 

[InjuredChoker]

ok, some other thoughts on smith reg. this subject. might be longer one.

last year's reg. season, just looking at adv. stats, you would think he's a premier shutdown dman. seriously. low sh% and high sv%. shutting down both ends off the ice.

this year sh% is still low, but sv% is too.

his on-ice sh% might be low bc he is not good at the point. he's not getting shots through. he doesn' have good vision. he lives and dies off. on transtition; which he isn't allowed to do as babs doesn't want that. so he's not getting much chances.

his corsi is good but fenwick isn't as good. the opposition is blocking a lot of shots when smith (and thus kfq) is on the ice.

last year z and dats were on separate lines. so smith (almost) always had good two way center's on the ice last year with him who could help and cover for him. this year he has been most often on the ice with cleary. weiss from centers. andersson next. big dropoff from last year. and still, he's up there a lot against opposition's top 6 players. combine that with poor luck, small sample size and lack of progress and it explains his numbers.

a lot, i mean a LOT of blame should go on babs an holland on this. he's asked to do too much, way too much. yeah he hasn't delivered but those numbers wouldn't be as bad if he was sheltered, like rookies normally are, playing with solid vet, like rookies normally are.

babs is clearly trying to teach him to play d better. wings couldn't do this same stuff when he was in ahl for 2+ years? nice job from organization that is known from 'excellent development system'. and something is more seriously wrong if they have tried to do it for years and it still hasn't worked out. and he isn't allowed to play the same way as in griffins. didn't see him at all in wisconsin but doubt he was used like this. and iirc, he started play d like at 16 or something?

so player who hasn't played defense all that much; not the best hockey sense; keep him long time playing against inferior competition - then throw him to the wolves, demand him play completely different style with poor support. and wonder why he struggles. great job wings.

clearly they think pretty high of him as they are giving him harder minutes than kindl who is very much sheltered. while being older and much more experienced.



tl;dr version: smith isn't good at hockey but wings are even worse at developing him.

 

[opivy]

Yep that on ice save percentage is low to the point that its unsustainable, thats bad luck not even Lebda would give up enough chances to maintain that number.

His bad play is overstated, he hasnt been great but this board always needs a whipping boy. Kindl get drooled over but still isnt being trusted as much as Smith who is less experienced and younger. He also didnt get the benefit of playing sheltered minutes to develop. Ericcson was whipped hard here, hes now the wings number 2 dman and a very good player. Smith has more talent than both people need to relax or theyre gonig to be eating even more crow

+1

It's very early in the season as well, lets wait until half way through to get too critical.

 

[opivy]

ok, some other thoughts on smith reg. this subject. might be longer one.

last year's reg. season, just looking at adv. stats, you would think he's a premier shutdown dman. seriously. low sh% and high sv%. shutting down both ends off the ice.

this year sh% is still low, but sv% is too.

his on-ice sh% might be low bc he is not good at the point. he's not getting shots through. he doesn' have good vision. he lives and dies off. on transtition; which he isn't allowed to do as babs doesn't want that. so he's not getting much chances.

his corsi is good but fenwick isn't as good. the opposition is blocking a lot of shots when smith (and thus kfq) is on the ice.

last year z and dats were on separate lines. so smith (almost) always had good two way center's on the ice last year with him who could help and cover for him. this year he has been most often on the ice with cleary. weiss from centers. andersson next. big dropoff from last year. and still, he's up there a lot against opposition's top 6 players. combine that with poor luck, small sample size and lack of progress and it explains his numbers.

a lot, i mean a LOT of blame should go on babs an holland on this. he's asked to do too much, way too much. yeah he hasn't delivered but those numbers wouldn't be as bad if he was sheltered, like rookies normally are, playing with solid vet, like rookies normally are.

babs is clearly trying to teach him to play d better. wings couldn't do this same stuff when he was in ahl for 2+ years? nice job from organization that is known from 'excellent development system'. and something is more seriously wrong if they have tried to do it for years and it still hasn't worked out. and he isn't allowed to play the same way as in griffins. didn't see him at all in wisconsin but doubt he was used like this. and iirc, he started play d like at 16 or something?

so player who hasn't played defense all that much; not the best hockey sense; keep him long time playing against inferior competition - then throw him to the wolves, demand him play completely different style with poor support. and wonder why he struggles. great job wings.

clearly they think pretty high of him as they are giving him harder minutes than kindl who is very much sheltered. while being older and much more experienced.

tl;dr version: smith isn't good at hockey but wings are even worse at developing him.

Your boss won't put you into a place unless they have faith you can succeed. I think that he's showed signs on both ends that he's learning. Kindl took a long time to start getting those shots through and Ericsson (although he was a forward) took much longer to really start playing solid defense. As a whole he's developing each facet at a good pace and I think he'll be a great TWD soon enough.

 

[Heaton]

While I agree with barely started career, take a look at the guy at the top of the GAA list.

I don't think that matters, if defensemen were run out of the league based on their first few years, there would be very few defensemen in the league.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I'm not glad that he's injured. I just think it was very stupid of him to put himself in a position to get injured in a pointless situation for no potential benefit. And I'm not saying he just killed his career either, he just made his difficult situation even harder. Eventually he's going to have to start earning his roster spot. He hasn't done anything to do that to date and XO seems ready to take a whack at it.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I dont think Smith is what a lot of you think one way or the other.

Your stats throw them away? Bad development? Whatever.

Simple equation GET RID OF QUINCEY.

He played well with ouellet. Sure he could play with kron or Eric very well imo.

This is all a quincey problem nothing more.

Now saying that I dont think he is a top four and doubt he ever is a good top four.

I think we have many guys better offensively coming so his roll will wind up 5-6-7 He will probably never be the offensive guy some of you think.

Now on other teams? Maybe some day he could be a top four and offensive guy but not on what is coming from detroit.

I guess they could let Ericsson and Kron go I dont see it but who knows.

 

[Heaton]

I dont think Smith is what a lot of you think one way or the other.

Your stats throw them away? Bad development? Whatever.

Simple equation GET RID OF QUINCEY.

He played well with ouellet. Sure he could play with kron or Eric very well imo.

This is all a quincey problem nothing more.

Now saying that I dont think he is a top four and doubt he ever is a good top four.

I think we have many guys better offensively coming so his roll will wind up 5-6-7 He will probably never be the offensive guy some of you think.

Now on other teams? Maybe some day he could be a top four and offensive guy but not on what is coming from detroit.

I guess they could let Ericsson and Kron go I dont see it but who knows.

Oh please. All of the giveaways? Terrible decision making? That's a cop out.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Oh please. All of the giveaways? Terrible decision making? That's a cop out.

Not all, but Quincey is a hand grenade passer. He has been on ice for 7 goals against. Smith just the four. But interestingly enough even Kindl and Dekeyser, both have goals with him on with them, Lashoff only goal out there with Quincey.

We have been over this but DeKeyser has more turnovers than you guys seem to realize, I know Frk It posted this a little while back. They haven't burned him the same way and people have not turned him into a whipping boy, local boy roughly half a season less in the NHL and no real offensive gifts to complain about not seeing. But I found DeKeyser to be just as useless with Quincey in the stretches we have seen that.

Name the partner Quincey plays well with, Lashoff, maybe? I mean he just doesn't look good with anybody. I thought Smith looked fine with both Ouellet and Kronwall. Part of that was he wasn't spending time collecting the puck out of his feet or in the corner or circling around in his own zone. If you watch where Quincey puts the puck so often you see a lot of what befalls Smith and angers the masses, he does it to Kindl and DeKeyser too.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The thing about Smith is that while he might still come around, how much do we have to endure until then? I'm not sure anybody would be willing to endure years of poor play from him just so that he can finally get it together down the line.

That's the Oilers' development strategy, really. I'd at least like them to give Smith the Kindl treatment and make him the 7th defenseman until he can find his way.

For a team that supposedly requires players to grab a hunk of cheese, Smith has been a decidedly non-cheese-grabbing mofo to this point.

 

[Heaton]

Not all, but Quincey is a hand grenade passer. He has been on ice for 7 goals against. Smith just the four. But interestingly enough even Kindl and Dekeyser, both have goals with him on with them, Lashoff only goal out there with Quincey.

We have been over this but DeKeyser has more turnovers than you guys seem to realize, I know Frk It posted this a little while back. They haven't burned him the same way and people have not turned him into a whipping boy, local boy roughly half a season less in the NHL and no real offensive gifts to complain about not seeing. But I found DeKeyser to be just as useless with Quincey in the stretches we have seen that.

Name the partner Quincey plays well with, Lashoff, maybe? I mean he just doesn't look good with anybody. I thought Smith looked fine with both Ouellet and Kronwall. Part of that was he wasn't spending time collecting the puck out of his feet or in the corner or circling around in his own zone. If you watch where Quincey puts the puck so often you see a lot of what befalls Smith and angers the masses, he does it to Kindl and DeKeyser too.

I'm not worried about his bottom line, I'm worried about what I see when I watch him.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Oh please. All of the giveaways? Terrible decision making? That's a cop out.

Agreed. Quincey needs to go, but that doesn't mean Smith doesn't need to go too.

Move Quincey out. Give Smith a chance with somebody else. but if he can't get the job done then, the Wings ought to move him or scratch him.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

The hate for a guy that has played the number of games he has is borderline hilarious considering the obvious tools.

The question I pose is, what obvious tools? If I had no idea who Smith was as a prospect, these so called tools would be pretty tough to find. Because this season and most of last he hasn't shown them at the NHL level. Dekeyser is better at skating the puck. Kindl is better at walking the offensive blueline and getting a shot through. Lashoff has been better defensively (he's been one of the pleasant surprises for me this year). What traits does Smith really have that we've seen?

I predicted he'd be very good this season after a disappointing 12-13 campaign, but in my eyes he's regressed. Multiple times a game he gets caught in no man's land. He's rarely dangerous offensively for a kid who gets caught out of position so frequently. And for an offensive player he handles the puck rather poorly. And no this is not on Quincey. As Heaton said, blaming Quincey for Smith's play is a copout.

I've not giving up on him in the long term, but his play has been borderline terrible this season.

 

[newfy]

The D pairing are literally at their worst when Smith and Quincey are together but for some reason Babcock has it in his head to keep them. Dekeyser has been solid with Kronwall, when Ericcson is back they should try him with Smith. Ericcson plays a great style to put with him and it leaves Quincey and Kindl. Kindl is already sheltered the most so why not give that a try.

And then it also baffles my mind that Dekeyser is used on the PP and Smith the PK. Thats just poor usage. Smith is supposed to be an offensive guy, why not use him on the PP? Than tonight almquist comes up (who is good on the PP) and gets thrown onto the PP right away while Smith still hasnt gotten a chance. Want to build a guys confidence, get him some PP time especially when hes an offensive player

 

[Konnan511]

AA impressed the heck out of me in the preseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he put up at least one point tonight. The kid is smarttttt.

 

[SimplySolace]

The D pairing are literally at their worst when Smith and Quincey are together but for some reason Babcock has it in his head to keep them. Dekeyser has been solid with Kronwall, when Ericcson is back they should try him with Smith. Ericcson plays a great style to put with him and it leaves Quincey and Kindl. Kindl is already sheltered the most so why not give that a try.

And then it also baffles my mind that Dekeyser is used on the PP and Smith the PK. Thats just poor usage. Smith is supposed to be an offensive guy, why not use him on the PP? Than tonight almquist comes up (who is good on the PP) and gets thrown onto the PP right away while Smith still hasnt gotten a chance. Want to build a guys confidence, get him some PP time especially when hes an offensive player

+1 so true. I wish we could hear Babcock's reasoning on some of his piss-poor pairings