News: Brayden Point open to bridge, 5-year or even 8-year extension with Tampa as per agent

[Henkka]

Yes why not? Do you think Point or his agent care at all what his teammates make? They care what his comparables across the league make.

Point comparables from his draft class are Draisaitl and Larkin. Pastrnak also but he's a winger. Quite equal production with Pasta and Draisaitl, clearly better than Larkin.

Nearest comparable, Draisaitl contract (8 years, 8.5M) was signed against 75M cap, and Point contract will be signed against 83M cap. That's ~10% cap inflation = 9.35M.

Proably something less with the tax edge. Something between Kucherov and Stamkos caphits, like he is with his production in the middle of those guys.

Stammer 8.5M < Point 9.xM < Kucherov 9.5M.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

But AGAIN..........small market team with precarious finances, and they can't afford it and everyone including Kucherov's agent, knows it.

You keep spewing this garbage. To what end? The NHL has a salary cap, the Lightning and Leafs are adhering to the same cap and the Lightning are spending JUST as much money as your mighty Leafs... You're droning on without making any sense with this petty argument.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

Point is better than Matthews so he is going to sign for 3 years longer and 3 million less?

This is good HFBoards logic I suppose.

Why not? Kucherov is better and signed for $2 Million less per year... it's not so crazy to think..

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Yes, he probably will, given the money that Matthews got from Toronto as an RFA (with only one year of free agency given up) and the precedent that was established by this contract. Contracts are on the rise, players constantly get faster and younger, the maximum capsapce will increase to 83M$ next year and probably go up at least slightly in the next few years.

Unless something drastically changes in the next negotiation of the CBA, a couple of years from now, it might become commonplace for star RFAs to get 10M$/year contracts straight out of their ELCs if GMs don't smarten up and start enforcing the bridge deals or owners once again put their foot down and try to limit the players' share of the revenue split.

We must remember that only fourteen years ago, in 05-06 after the lockout, players signed to 6-7M$ deals were the elites of the elite, the cap ceiling was set at 39M$ and that it has more than doubled in these years. With that in mind, contract dollars will always increase untill we reach the ultimate treshold of sustainability for the league (which will level off any increase to the cap for a couple of years, then see it increase again with inflation, but as things stand, that's still a ways away), meaning that contracts to similar players should account for the cap inflation.

Even with the lower taxes from Florida coming into play and a hometown discount, given contract comparables to similar RFAs in Rantanen, Matthews and Marner, I still think Point gets paid at the very least 8-8,5M$ on the low-end of the spectrum and possibly more. Again, 10M$ would not surprise me in the least.

have you watch how we handle these deals? tyjo palat were runner ups for rookies of year what did they get paid again? since when do we care or when have we cared on what the hell toronto does on contracts? that dont faze us number one... Number 2 everyone including kucherov stamkos hedman point tyjo palat etc... all agreed to do what is necessary to stay together and make this work. Point has said more then once he will play ball in ORDER to give us the chance to WIN.... that is what these guys get what toronto players dont get and going to keep affecting you for years...> Will say you have done better in toronto on these deals then say pitt did with crosby cause by the cap they are being more fair then crosby has been. Yet the culture in tampa has been set its in stone just like was in detroit on how people were going to get paid and on which contract etc... As I said look for 7 milly as the deal not sure on years yet.... thats a huge amount more then kucherov agreed to even on his second contract. Get used to it as you obviously havent yet. It will keep happening

 

[DistantThunderRep]

???? There is no fundamental reason why other teams can’t provide bonuses other than their own inability to make money???

There is a fundamental difference in the net income that other teams cannot under any circumstances provide.

Big market teams can afford to pay all that money upfront. Where others can't. It's a disadvantage that big market teams have and needs to be corrected.

See how this works?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

In the end, Maple Leaf Gardens, the last Original Six arena still being used by an NHL team, was a victim of its own success; after 2,533 regular-season and Stanley Cup Playoff games, it became too small to house the team that went decades without an unsold ticket. After two road games, the Maple Leafs returned one week later to their new home, the bigger, more opulent Air Canada Centre.

Notice where it says decades, the Av's did not go decades selling out. This is MLG that I'm talking about not the ACC, and I doubt that the Packers have even played close to 2533 home games, so compare that. I don't make **** up. The copy I had of the Guinness book of world records had the LEAFS as the longest home sellout streak. whic was probably before you were even born. I don't make up stuff.

My first game at MLG was in 1968 and continued till closing that was 4 decades.....in every one of those games I attended it was announced as a sellout never an unsold ticked......16481 sold

EDIT: every morning the day after a game the Toronto star would have the attendance for the game printed, the same after every home game 16,481 sold.

Notice how you provide zero proof? On wiki, on Guinness's own website, there is no reference to this record you speak of. If you were telling the truth, then the NHL record books wouldn't have the Avalanche as the longest sellout streak or the Packers as the longest streak in sports lasting over half a century with no signs of slowing down.

 

[SlickShot]

If he cracks 100 points (which he looks like he will) I can't see him not go for at least Kucherov money (9.5M). Do that on maybe a 5 year (47.5M total) which brings him to 27 (UFA) where he can cash in again.

I too don't see him going for Kucherov money. Maybe $5-6M per year?

 

[Legion34]

Big market teams can afford to pay all that money upfront. Where others can't. It's a disadvantage that big market teams have and needs to be corrected.

See how this works?

No? Not at all????? There is no law or rule that stopsnthem. They are only stopped because they can’t afford it due to their own ability to make money.

Small market teams CAN choose to pay all up front. T would be a bad move but they CAN. They can make more money. The owner can choose to lose money. But they CAN. They choose not to (smartly)

Toronto and New York CANNOT offer tax free money to their players.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

No? Not at all????? There is no law or rule that stopsnthem. They are only stopped because they can’t afford it due to their own ability to make money.

Small market teams CAN choose to pay all up front. T would be a bad move but they CAN. They can make more money. The owner can choose to lose money. But they CAN. They choose not to (smartly)

Toronto and New York CANNOT offer tax free money to their players.

You don't understand that the signing bonus route is circumventing taxes right? Also by your comment, you don't understand how taxing works. They literally offered Matthews mostly tax free money on his contract. All income for a American citizen is taxed 37%. Including bonuses. Matthews and Tavares (who is an American citizen now also) both only pay 37% on their bonus, just like Florida's no state tax. Dear God the advantage is gone. Only if a player hold residence in Canada will they be charged an extra 15% on signing bonuses. So where is the advantage really? Seems like it's with the big market teams being able to dump money upfront and avoid taxes all in one?

Matthews and Tavares are circumventing taxes, the difference is Dubas didn't get a AAV discount by doing it or term for Matthews. It's no one else's fault but his.

 

[Todd1a]

have you watch how we handle these deals? tyjo palat were runner ups for rookies of year what did they get paid again? since when do we care or when have we cared on what the hell toronto does on contracts? that dont faze us number one... Number 2 everyone including kucherov stamkos hedman point tyjo palat etc... all agreed to do what is necessary to stay together and make this work. Point has said more then once he will play ball in ORDER to give us the chance to WIN.... that is what these guys get what toronto players dont get and going to keep affecting you for years...> Will say you have done better in toronto on these deals then say pitt did with crosby cause by the cap they are being more fair then crosby has been. Yet the culture in tampa has been set its in stone just like was in detroit on how people were going to get paid and on which contract etc... As I said look for 7 milly as the deal not sure on years yet.... thats a huge amount more then kucherov agreed to even on his second contract. Get used to it as you obviously havent yet. It will keep happening

Don't be surprised lol when HF boards goes nuts and point signs a 3 year term for 6.5 avv cap hit

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Don't be surprised lol when HF boards goes nuts and point signs a 3 year term for 6.5 avv cap hit

I can't wait to see HF if something like this happens. All the salt and taxes threads will be unreal.

 

[Legion34]

You don't understand that the signing bonus route is circumventing taxes right? Also by your comment, you don't understand how taxing works. They literally offered Matthews mostly tax free money on his contract. All income for a American citizen is taxed 37%. Including bonuses. Matthews and Tavares (who is an American citizen now also) both only pay 37% on their bonus, just like Florida's no state tax. Dear God the advantage is gone. Only if a player hold residence in Canada will they be charged an extra 15% on signing bonuses. So where is the advantage really? Seems like it's with the big market teams being able to dump money upfront and avoid taxes all in one?

Matthews and Tavares are circumventing taxes, the difference is Dubas didn't get a AAV discount by doing it or term for Matthews. It's no one else's fault but his.

If yes you call players having to change citizenship an advantage. Sure. In your argument then every single player has to just become an American and buy a house in a tax free state????? What if they don’t want to be an American citizen?

Bottom line. Regardless of whether or not specific teams have found ways to mitigate the initial unfair advantage in a very small set of circumstances.

There is nothing that stops other teams from spending the money up front. Except their own incompetence. They choose to own a team. They chose to buy it in a place thar thar NHL deemed to be able tonsupport a team. The fans choose not to support the team in a way that allows them to compete with other markets.

If the only way you can validate your argument is by the one star player who grew up playing hockey in Arizona then it’s probably not the best. Unless I am missing something?

 

[AndreRoy]

First of all the purpose of the salary cap is NOT to guarantee equality on the ice or in terms of what players take home - it’s to stabilize operating costs by limiting the amount that teams can spend on players. How much of that money players actually get after taxes is not a concern of the owners; what matters is how much teams are paying them and the limit there is the same for every NHL franchise.

Second if you don’t like the effect of higher taxes on your local businesses then you should make smarter choices in the voting booth.

 

[LordZapp]

People gonna be surprised when he signs for 8x7.5m

 

[AndreRoy]

People gonna be surprised when he signs for 8x7.5m

I would be among them. I could see him getting that on a bridge deal but I’ll be shocked if he signs a longterm deal that isn’t at least within a million of what Kuch is making. But I’d obviously be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[LordZapp]

I would be among them. I could see him getting that on a bridge deal but I’ll be shocked if he signs a longterm deal that isn’t at least within a million of what Kuch is making. But I’d obviously be happy to be proven wrong.

Kuch is much more proven of a player than Point is. He signed for 9.5 after he had 65,66,85 and 100 pt seasons. I'd say he gets Hedman money.

 

[rosscow]

People gonna be surprised when he signs for 8x7.5m

I would be. If he does great for tampa. But man it would be hard to leave $24 mil on the table.

 

[guzzy]

Wow that narrows the choices. Great reporting. Why didn’t they say that Point will probably play hockey next year.?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Except that the bonus heavy structure of deals ala Tavares will benefit canadian teams as they have to pay something like 15% on bonus money. The Florida loophole will now end up hurting non Florida us teams.

The 15% tax on bonus money is just the Canadian tax rate that American players have to pay. They still have to pay taxes in the U.S. on the bonus money. Matthews will have to pay around 41% tax total on his signing bonuses, not 15% like some people have been led to believe.

 

[AndreRoy]

Kuch is much more proven of a player than Point is. He signed for 9.5 after he had 65,66,85 and 100 pt seasons. I'd say he gets Hedman money.

That is true, and it’s why I don’t see us signing Point to anything close to a Matthews-sized contract. Kuch took a team-friendly bridge and had multiple seasons of elite numbers before getting that $9.5M and regardless of salaries going up it would be a slap in the face to him for us to give Point a significantly larger deal straight off of his ELC.

At the same time though, Point has already put up 66 points in his first full season and is on pace for 100 in his second while Kucherov didn’t hit the 100 point mark until his fourth full season; that along with Point’s defensive contributions, his positional premium as a center, and the rising salaries for young players league-wide make me doubt that we could get him for Hedman money on an eight-year deal. I think something in the range of $8.5M to $10.5M is more realistic, or something around $7M to $7.5M on a three-year bridge which might be best for everyone concerned as it would avoid insulting Kuch by giving Point more off his ELC than Kuch got after his bridge, leave us with enough cap space to keep/acquire another veteran defenseman, and allow Point to really cash in once Palat comes off the books.

But again I’d be happy to be wrong on this.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

If yes you call players having to change citizenship an advantage. Sure. In your argument then every single player has to just become an American and buy a house in a tax free state????? What if they don’t want to be an American citizen?

Bottom line. Regardless of whether or not specific teams have found ways to mitigate the initial unfair advantage in a very small set of circumstances.

There is nothing that stops other teams from spending the money up front. Except their own incompetence. They choose to own a team. They chose to buy it in a place thar thar NHL deemed to be able tonsupport a team. The fans choose not to support the team in a way that allows them to compete with other markets.

If the only way you can validate your argument is by the one star player who grew up playing hockey in Arizona then it’s probably not the best. Unless I am missing something?

Yes, a lot of NHL players become dual citizens. Because they work majority of the year in the states and to pay less taxes on the money they earn. It's pretty common practice. It's quite simple as long as the player doesn't own a home in Canada and rents, and buys a condo in Vegas, he avoids the majority of tax on salary and bonus. Bonuses are subjected to a couple more percent in states, but not much. If these taxes were such a burden and there was no reprieve, player would exclusively sign in Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, and Dallas.

There are many factors that will stop teams doing the signing bonus route. They are paid in full, upfront at the beginning of the season. How many teams in the league could afford to pay out 30-40 million in cash at the beginning of the year? I know, big market teams like Toronto. It's an unfair advantage they have compounded by tax loopholes that the CBA doesn't also address. But no, let's bitch and moan about a state that pays 37% income tax.

It's like you're being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse because you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The 15% tax on bonus money is just the Canadian tax rate that American players have to pay. They still have to pay taxes in the U.S. on the bonus money. Matthews will have to pay around 41% tax total on his signing bonuses, not 15% like some people have been led to believe.

Correct it's 37%+15%. Matthews would only pay that if he owned a home in canada, but since he is an American citizen and doesn't own a home in Canada he would pay 37% + Arizona's tax rate. He could avoid that last percentile bit if he owns a home in Texas, Nevada, Florida, Washington State, and Tennessee and declares it his primary residence.

 

[Legion34]

Yes, a lot of NHL players become dual citizens. Because they work majority of the year in the states and to pay less taxes on the money they earn. It's pretty common practice. It's quite simple as long as the player doesn't own a home in Canada and rents, and buys a condo in Vegas, he avoids the majority of tax on salary and bonus. Bonuses are subjected to a couple more percent in states, but not much. If these taxes were such a burden and there was no reprieve, player would exclusively sign in Nashville, Tampa, Florida, Vegas, and Dallas.

There are many factors that will stop teams doing the signing bonus route. They are paid in full, upfront at the beginning of the season. How many teams in the league could afford to pay out 30-40 million in cash at the beginning of the year? I know, big market teams like Toronto. It's an unfair advantage they have compounded by tax loopholes that the CBA doesn't also address. But no, let's ***** and moan about a state that pays 37% income tax.

It's like you're being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse because you have no idea what you're talking about.

I’m being obtuse???? You are arguing that it makes sense for a person to be forced to become a citizen of a country for tax breaks???? Are you kidding?

Instead of deciding to fix an arbitrary system of “cap hit” that doesn’t exist in real life. You want people to have to become citizens of a different country? Do you want them to change religion too? People can choose what they want to do. But to act like it is the most logical solution to the tax disparity is just... wow.

Tax free states with competitive teams have consistently managed to get players on cap friendly deals... look at the best deals out there. The vast majority are signed in Nashville, Dallas, Tampa.

There is clearly an advantage. When discussing the Marner negotiations bob mackenzie specifically reported that they are dismissing the kucherov contract because the tax situation in Tampa. What you want Marner to become an American too???

Bottom line is. If signing bonus “circumvention” is a big market way of trying to compensate for an inherent advantage. If some teams can mitigate that in some ways that’s one thing. It doesn’t make the tax situation fair.

All teams CAN afford to pay their contracts up front. They are owned by billionaires. They are choosing not too. They could lose
Money, they could increase ticket prices. Fans could support the teams..... The owners choose not to pay. They choose not to increase ticket prices. Fans choose not to pay the money. Its a free market.

Toronto can’t choose to pay the taxes of all of their players. That is an inherent advantage That is a massive flaw in the system

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

"be forced to become a citizen of a country for tax breaks"

Yeah, no, that isn't what's happening.

 

[thunder16]

Notice how you provide zero proof? On wiki, on Guinness's own website, there is no reference to this record you speak of. If you were telling the truth, then the NHL record books wouldn't have the Avalanche as the longest sellout streak or the Packers as the longest streak in sports lasting over half a century with no signs of slowing down.

@10;25 I'm done looking for proof that I already know. I'm not a liar and I don't make shit up!

Like it or not 40 years of sold out seats

BTW Packers would sell out 8 games a year, Leafs would sell out 8 games a month.