Bravo Allvin. The D is pretty much rebuilt.

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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Saying that we need another top pairing defenseman sounds pretty greedy and unrealistic to me.

It is. Though when you think back to the last time the Canucks were real "contenders"...they essentially had 5 "top pairing" or Top-3 caliber defenceman on the roster. Hamhuis, Bieksa (as half of Hamjuice at least), Ehrhoff, Edler, Salo (when healthy) were all of that sort of caliber. That was a Cup Contender caliber blueline. Though maybe a bit ambitious to expect that kind of depth again.

I think what we have in Hughes right now also kind of offsets some of that. He's playing at a higher level than any of the guys we had at that point. So less need to do it all "by committee" if you have that true Norris caliber #1D anchoring things and eating up huge minutes.
 
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VanJack

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Actually, I'm not sure that the Canucks defense has been re-made. Maybe over the short term it has.

But checking the Canucks blueline on Cap Friendly, Myers, Zadorov, Friedman and Cole are all impending UFA's. I'm not sure any of them will be back--unless they try and re-sign Zadorov early.

In fact the only d-men with guaranteed contracts for next season are Hughes, Soucy and Juulsen.

And of course Hronek is an RFA, and will need a new contract. And obviously he's due for a huge raise based on the season he's having.

So some major holes are shaping up on this Canuck blueline. So the 'rebuild' is nowhere near finished yet.
 
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theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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Zadorov is basically a career #5 guy, and was a UFA when he signed his current 2 year deal. I tend to like to estimate high on UFA's but I don't think he's making anymore than he currently is, let alone $5M.

In general though you really wouldn't call the defense 'rebuilt' with all the UFA's, but rather Allvin has proven himself competent in constructing a blueline for the season. Something that only seemed unachievable because we got used to our GM spending all his salary and assets on Sbisa/Gudbranson/Myers/OEL.
Most of his career he has been on teams that had established defence as their core players so cracking the "points" was harder for him, also that he has been looked at to be a one dimensional type player.
While 5 million might be too much now if 3 years it could be a bargain especially if he does develop into a reliable 3/4 guy. Large defencemen often have longer careers too.

If Allvin can fit him to 4.5 to 5 mill that is less than Myers present 6 and Zad does adds more to the physical game. Maybe match him up with Hronek.

The last million of Myers cap hit and Cole's 3 million could/would be used in signing a FA, Cole, Tanev, Myers.

There is a minute possibility he has an inner Hedmon, Hamiton or Eckblad that just needs opportunity. He is supposed to be a superior skater.

This is a "hockey" trade to me, not just a rental.

And I believe the team does need to add another top 4 dman, a place holder for one of the young prospects to fill in 2/3/4 years.
My preference is likely close to Tocchet's or his closer to mine. Long ago while selecting the WJ national team there was the comment of, "we prefer players that duck to get through the door unless like this guy (showing a picture of Gretzky), we can teach skating."
So "my team" starts with being bigger than league average size with exceptions for super high skill, but if two players are close then size is a major deciding factor.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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1990 (terribad d)

butcher lidster
nordmark reinhart
snepsts’ corpse/benning/melnyk


1991 (suddenly good d)

lumme lidster
diduck murzyn
kurvers dirk


entering the 1994 season

lumme murzyn
babych diduck
dirk/slegr/plavsic


after the 94 deadline

lumme murzyn
babych diduck
hedican brown


moral of the story, even with pat quinn’s miracle work to turn over the entire d other than lidster, and bringing in real players — didick, lumme, babych, murzyn — to replace guys who all never played in the league again (reinhart’s corpse, snepsts’ corpse, nordmark, melnyk, benning), he still needed the magic bullet trade of adding a legit high level middle pair (hedican and brown) for a player who wasn’t in the lineup (nedved) to have a true contender’s blueline.

we’re a ways off obviously.
 
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tyhee

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Feb 5, 2015
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Half the D is UFA when the season ends. Only 2 are signed. Hronek will be expensive. Really need at least 1 of the AHL guys to be a regular next season.

But for the remainder of the season, it's been good. If Bear could be swapped in for Myers, that would be another upgrade.
Yes, with one expensive pending RFA and four pending unrestricted free agents among their top 7, if things go sideways the defence could need rebuilding again soon.

That being said, it is impressive that Allvin has been able to change five of the top seven in such a short time and go from everyone acknowledging the defence was a position of serious weakness to a defence that, at the very least, most Canuck fans aren't too uncomfortable with.

The number of upcoming free agents can be worrisome, but imo the best thing about the moves of the current GM is that we Canuck fans no longer cringe in horror when we see a news headline that begins "Canucks trade ..."
 
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StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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Yes, with one expensive pending RFA and four pending unrestricted free agents among their top 7, if things go sideways the defence could need rebuilding again soon.

That being said, it is impressive that Allvin has been able to change five of the top seven in such a short time and go from everyone acknowledging the defence was a position of serious weakness to a defence that, at the very least, most Canuck fans aren't too uncomfortable with.

The number of upcoming free agents can be worrisome, but imo the best thing about the moves of the current GM is that we Canuck fans no longer cringe in horror when we see a news headline that begins "Canucks trade ..."
Losing Myers, Cole, even the newly acquired Zadorov isn’t an issue. But, the D will still need work this off season which was my focus. PA can’t let up. Still need to find help and not a lot of cap space to do it without a move nor is the ufa market great.
 
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tyhee

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What do you guys think of acquring Adam Larsson? I think he's on the last year of his contract and Seattle is below .500 so they might be looking to move him? I haven't heard anything about that though so just pure speculation on my part.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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Oct 29, 2002
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Half the D is UFA when the season ends.

This is a feature, not a bug. We can see what this group is able to accomplish this year, and decide from there.

I could easily see a world where Allvin walks away from *all* the pending UFAs, and pursues a higher end piece like Chabot or Sanheim, and looks for bottom dollar depth free agents (guys like Derek Forbort or Justin Schultz, who should both be in the ~$1M range).
 
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Bankerguy

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Apr 28, 2013
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if we lock up Hronek, and peg Willander as a top 4 guy year after next, then we only need to find 1 top4 guy this off season or next.
If Zadorov comes in and takes a step forwsrd, then that would solve the problem
 

Jay26

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Jul 13, 2022
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He's done a great job of turning it over but in terms of a finished product he's still a ways away. He still needs to find that young-ish top pairing keeper like Toews for Colorado and integrate a bluechip prospect like Byram (maybe Willander).

In a few seasons if we something along these lines, maybe we're set:

Hughes - XXXX
Soucy - Hronek
Zadorov - Willander

Ideally Soucy would be the bottom pairing partner for Willander though and we'd have an upgrade for the 2nd pairing. Who knows if Zadorov is going to be a keeper or not. Jury is still out. Also really depends on that Player XXXX.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Canucks are still paying a price tor their inability in the Benning years to draft and develop a single d-man, other than Hughes.

Normally you'd expect two or three guys after two or years of development, to be able to step in when a bunch of veteran blueliners are potential UFA's. Canucks really have no-one who fits the bill.

There's a lot of promise from the likes of Wilander, Brzustewicz, D-Petey. Kudryavtsev and maybe Mynio.......but they're probably at 2-3 years of development time away from having any impact on the Canucks.

So unfortunately for the Canucks, it's at least another season or two of UFA signings and trades to bolster their blueline, assuming that Cole, Myers, Friedman and possibly even Zadorov are out.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Oct 1, 2017
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Canucks are still paying a price tor their inability in the Benning years to draft and develop a single d-man, other than Hughes.

Normally you'd expect two or three guys after two or years of development, to be able to step in when a bunch of veteran blueliners are potential UFA's. Canucks really have no-one who fits the bill.

There's a lot of promise from the likes of Wilander, Brzustewicz, D-Petey. Kudryavtsev and maybe Mynio.......but they're probably at 2-3 years of development time away from having any impact on the Canucks.

So unfortunately for the Canucks, it's at least another season or two of UFA signings and trades to bolster their blueline, assuming that Cole, Myers, Friedman and possibly even Zadorov are out.
You've got to go way farther back than that...Nonis drafted Edler and Bieksa way back in the early 2000's..Since then we've only developed 2 top 4 D men..Tanev and Hughes.
 

lawrence

Registered User
May 19, 2012
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We are still missing a good right shooting dman. After hronek all of our right shooting dmans is literally rubbish.
 

docbenton

Registered User
Dec 6, 2014
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When Willander comes out of BU for the stretch run (probably after his sophomore year):

Hughes-Hronek
Zadorov-Willander
Soucy-Bear

Looks like a great group to me if they can keep Hronek, Zadorov and Bear.
 

lawrence

Registered User
May 19, 2012
15,996
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When Willander comes out of BU for the stretch run (probably after his sophomore year):

Hughes-Hronek
Zadorov-Willander
Soucy-Bear

Looks like a great group to me if they can keep Hronek, Zadorov and Bear.
Willander doesn’t look pro ready. He’s at least 2 years away.
 

docbenton

Registered User
Dec 6, 2014
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Willander doesn’t look pro ready. He’s at least 2 years away.
He does to me...I don't think he'd look out of place if he came out this year, but for his development best to play another year at BU and develop more his play with the puck. His game lacks the weaknesses of players you worry about transitioning to the pro game. He can skate, check and move the puck against a heavy forecheck.
 

David Bruce Banner

Nude Cabdriver Ban
Mar 25, 2008
7,965
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Streets Ahead
1990 (terribad d)

butcher lidster
nordmark reinhart
snepsts’ corpse/benning/melnyk


1991 (suddenly good d)

lumme lidster
diduck murzyn
kurvers dirk


entering the 1994 season

lumme murzyn
babych diduck
dirk/slegr/plavsic


after the 94 deadline

lumme murzyn
babych diduck
hedican brown


moral of the story, even with pat quinn’s miracle work to turn over the entire d other than lidster, and bringing in real players — didick, lumme, babych, murzyn — to replace guys who all never played in the league again (reinhart’s corpse, snepsts’ corpse, nordmark, melnyk, benning), he still needed the magic bullet trade of adding a legit high level middle pair (hedican and brown) for a player who wasn’t in the lineup (nedved) to have a true contender’s blueline.

we’re a ways off obviously.

I'm going to agree with pretty much everything you said here, except "Reinhart's corpse". Although he was on his last legs professionally, due to chronic back pain, he did manage 64 and 67 games in his two seasons here. And skill-wise, I still rank him in the top 5 defenders we've ever had.
A healthy Reinhart would have been an upgrade over Jeff Brown.
 

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