Dreger: Brassard likely to be traded

[PensandCaps]

I think you are mistaken.

In 2014-2015, Brassard had by far his best year, with 60 pts in 80 games during the regular season and a superb playoff performance with 16 points in 19 games.

Never was close to that level in Adawa.

Yes he was.

40 5v5 points in 72 games last season in Ottawa/Pitt.

His best 5v5 year.

 

[Peen]

Sutter for Brassard

 

[Michoulicious]

Yes he was.

40 5v5 points in 72 games last season in Ottawa/Pitt.

His best 5v5 year.

"Best 5v5 year" is not best year. Stop cherry picking stats.

Had the NYR beaten Tampa, he would have probably been in the top 3 of the Conn Smythe voting. It was Brassard best year, and everybody knows it but you.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sutter for Brassard

How generous, the Penguins get an abortion of a player with an abortion of a contract for a pending UFA.

 

[Peen]

How generous, the Penguins get an abortion of a player with an abortion of a contract for a pending UFA.

Sounds great. Let's do it.

 

[3074326]

I'd rather keep Brass and lose him for nothing than see Sutter return.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Sutter. Lmfao. I never want to see that turd in a Pens uniform again.

Pretty sure the nurses switched babies in the hospital for the Sutter family at birth because he doesn’t have the Sutter heart and soul that’s for damn sure.

I wouldn’t take him for free with 50% cap savings.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

"Best 5v5 year" is not best year. Stop cherry picking stats.

Had the NYR beaten Tampa, he would have probably been in the top 3 of the Conn Smythe voting. It was Brassard best year, and everybody knows it but you.

Sorry you are the one Cherry picking stats. In New York Brassard played on the 1st line and top PP unit. So of course he is going to score more points in that situation.

The Sens played the most defensive system in the league and he was the number 2 center and less PP time. But given the playing time he had he was fantastic. 40 points 5v5 playing in the Sens system for most of that time is great and his best 5v5 season. Players can only play in the situation given to them. For example any center coming to the Pens would not get top PP time and play on the 3rd line because they have Crosby and Malkin in front of them.

Judging a players effectiveness by just Points is pretty lame. Player playing top line minutes in an offensive system and top PP time is going to get more points than someone playing in a team system that plays the most defensive system in the league that year.

Bottom line is Brassard had a great year last year and to say he was not as good as in the past is rookie standard of understanding the game.

 

[Viqsi]

Sorry you are the one Cherry picking stats. In New York Brassard played on the 1st line and top PP unit. So of course he is going to score more points in that situation.

The Sens played the most defensive system in the league and he was the number 2 center and less PP time. But given the playing time he had he was fantastic. 40 points 5v5 playing in the Sens system for most of that time is great and his best 5v5 season. Players can only play in the situation given to them. For example any center coming to the Pens would not get top PP time and play on the 3rd line because they have Crosby and Malkin in front of them.

Judging a players effectiveness by just Points is pretty lame. Player playing top line minutes in an offensive system and top PP time is going to get more points than someone playing in a team system that plays the most defensive system in the league that year.

Bottom line is Brassard had a great year last year and to say he was not as good as in the past is rookie standard of understanding the game.

Last year was good, sure. This year has been atrocious, and he's at the age where one has to start worrying about players declining. Your point merely establishes that he could be worth something useful, but he's not worth the price of a half-a-point-per-game #2C.

 

[Michoulicious]

Sorry you are the one Cherry picking stats. In New York Brassard played on the 1st line and top PP unit. So of course he is going to score more points in that situation.

The Sens played the most defensive system in the league and he was the number 2 center and less PP time. But given the playing time he had he was fantastic. 40 points 5v5 playing in the Sens system for most of that time is great and his best 5v5 season. Players can only play in the situation given to them. For example any center coming to the Pens would not get top PP time and play on the 3rd line because they have Crosby and Malkin in front of them.

Judging a players effectiveness by just Points is pretty lame. Player playing top line minutes in an offensive system and top PP time is going to get more points than someone playing in a team system that plays the most defensive system in the league that year.

Bottom line is Brassard had a great year last year and to say he was not as good as in the past is rookie standard of understanding the game.

Are you for real? Do you remember Brassard's performance in 2014-2015? You don't look like you do.

He was the frickin MVP (with Lundqvist that was like always great) on a team that went in in game 7 of the Conference Final after beating Washington and Pittsburgh (as a Penguins fan you might remember his 5 goals and his OT winner in game 1).

On Ottawa he was not close to being the best player on the team... He was never even the best center on the team. Not saying he sucked or anything (far from it), but to say his performance in Ottawa was better than what he accomplished with the Rangers in 2014-2015 is ridiculous. He was at his absolute peak. There is a reason why all the Rangers fan loved Brassard; ask any person on the Rangers board how he was in the playoffs, and then you'll decide if "I judge a player's effectiveness only by looking at points". I actually watch hockey games from most of the teams, and I've been for a while.

You telling me hat Brasssard was as good in Ottawa than he was in 2014-2015 with New York makes me wonder if you really watched Brassard play in those years.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Last year was good, sure. This year has been atrocious, and he's at the age where one has to start worrying about players declining. Your point merely establishes that he could be worth something useful, but he's not worth the price of a half-a-point-per-game #2C.

Was I debating that? If you would of read what I was responding to then maybe you would not quote my post. The person was acting like his play showed a decline last year which was absurd.

Now I will gladly debate your point about this year. Obviously Brassard is not happy being a 3C and getting by far his least amount of minutes per game. A team that trades for him is banking on the belief that given 2nd line center time Brassard can still produce at past levels. You can disagree with that logic but many players have done well when put back in the right situation that fits for them. Gathering by the rumors which by all accounts at least 5 teams have been showing interest in Brassard for 2nd line Center I think your assessment is premature.

Many teams look for players like that to add at a discount. Rutherford does a great job finding those types of players over the years for the Pens. Sometimes they work out like Schultz and sometimes they don’t like Perron who was picked up for a 1st round pick and didn’t produce for the Pens. Obviously he still was a great player because he did well for the Ducks and now Blues. At the moment he is 2nd in goals and Points for them. Bottom line is some players got better on other teams. Pens need to find someone who is willing and able to play 3C. Brassard does not like being a 3C so Pens need to move on from him but are not going to give him away. I believe he will get 2C value but will see.

 

[Viqsi]

Was I debating that? If you would of read what I was responding to then maybe you would not quote my post. The person was acting like his play showed a decline last year which was absurd.

Wasn't trying to accuse you. That and I confess that I'm not always the best at keeping track of which folks are making which points, particularly when they lack avatars. Mea culpa.

Now I will gladly debate your point about this year. Obviously Brassard is not happy being a 3C and getting by far his least amount of minutes per game. A team that trades for him is banking on the belief that given 2nd line center time Brassard can still produce at past levels. You can disagree with that logic but many players have done well when put back in the right situation that fits for them.

I don't disagree. The problem, however, is that folks generally look for those guys because it generally costs less than the assured thing.

Many teams look for players like that to add at a discount. Rutherford does a great job finding those types of players over the years for the Pens. Sometimes they work out like Schultz and sometimes they don’t like Perron who was picked up for a 1st round pick and didn’t produce for the Pens. Obviously he still was a great player because he did well for the Ducks and now Blues. At the moment he is 2nd in goals and Points for them. Bottom line is some players got better on other teams. Pens need to find someone who is willing and able to play 3C. Brassard does not like being a 3C so Pens need to move on from him but are not going to give him away. I believe he will get 2C value but will see.

I would argue that these bolded statements contradict each other. Or, rather, that the former statement undercuts the latter.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Are you for real? Do you remember Brassard's performance in 2014-2015? You don't look like you do.

He was the frickin MVP (with Lundqvist that was like always great) on a team that went in in game 7 of the Conference Final after beating Washington and Pittsburgh (as a Penguins fan you might remember his 5 goals and his OT winner in game 1).

On Ottawa he was not close to being the best player on the team... He was never even the best center on the team. Not saying he sucked or anything (far from it), but to say his performance in Ottawa was better than what he accomplished with the Rangers in 2014-2015 is ridiculous. He was at his absolute peak. There is a reason why all the Rangers fan loved Brassard; ask any person on the Rangers board how he was in the playoffs, and then you'll decide if "I judge a player's effectiveness only by looking at points". I actually watch hockey games from most of the teams, and I've been for a while.

You telling me hat Brasssard was as good in Ottawa than he was in 2014-2015 with New York makes me wonder if you really watched Brassard play in those years.

Never said he wasn’t great then. He was the number one scorer one of those years from what I remember. But that still does not change the fact that the Sens played the most defensive system I have seen in many years that year. So for Brassard to get 40 points 5v5 is really impressive.

To compare a player playing on top line and top PP in a normal system to a player getting lesser line mates and a much more defensive system is ridiculous when just going by points like you did. 40 5v5 points is good in any system. In that system that is elite. So are you for real? I am no rookie, been a season ticket holder for decades and have watched more hockey than I care to admit.

Yes Brassard was good in New York but also you can’t argue with 40 5v5 points. How many points do you think a decent #1 Center would get playing on the Pens? He would be a 3rd line Center and not be on the top PP unit and only about 15 minutes a night. You can take a 60-70 point Top line Center from many teams and they would be lucky to get low 40’s points given Pens placement.

 

[Gurglesons]

Never said he wasn’t great then. He was the number one scorer one of those years from what I remember. But that still does not change the fact that the Sens played the most defensive system I have seen in many years that year. So for Brassard to get 40 points 5v5 is really impressive.

To compare a player playing on top line and top PP in a normal system to a player getting lesser line mates and a much more defensive system is ridiculous when just going by points like you did. 40 5v5 points is good in any system. In that system that is elite. So are you for real? I am no rookie, been a season ticket holder for decades and have watched more hockey than I care to admit.

Yes Brassard was good in New York but also you can’t argue with 40 5v5 points. How many points do you think a decent #1 Center would get playing on the Pens? He would be a 3rd line Center and not be on the top PP unit and only about 15 minutes a night. You can take a 60-70 point Top line Center from many teams and they would be lucky to get low 40’s points given Pens placement.

You obviously just started following Brass.

His performances in 13-14 and 14-15 and even 15-16 to an extent were what made money of us Penguins fans really excited for him.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Wasn't trying to accuse you. That and I confess that I'm not always the best at keeping track of which folks are making which points, particularly when they lack avatars. Mea culpa.


I don't disagree. The problem, however, is that folks generally look for those guys because it generally costs less than the assured thing.


I would argue that these bolded statements contradict each other. Or, rather, that the former statement undercuts the latter.

How does it contradict? I have never posted what I expected to get back. How do you know what I expect. A team that thinks Brassard can be a #2 for them and has playoff aspirations like the Bluejackets will be willing to give a decent amount if they believe he is what they need. For example someone would still pay a hefty amount for many underperforming players that their scouts believes would do well in their system. What that is I have no idea.

 

[Michoulicious]

Never said he wasn’t great then. He was the number one scorer one of those years from what I remember. But that still does not change the fact that the Sens played the most defensive system I have seen in many years that year. So for Brassard to get 40 points 5v5 is really impressive.

To compare a player playing on top line and top PP in a normal system to a player getting lesser line mates and a much more defensive system is ridiculous when just going by points like you did. 40 5v5 points is good in any system. In that system that is elite. So are you for real? I am no rookie, been a season ticket holder for decades and have watched more hockey than I care to admit.

Yes Brassard was good in New York but also you can’t argue with 40 5v5 points. How many points do you think a decent #1 Center would get playing on the Pens? He would be a 3rd line Center and not be on the top PP unit and only about 15 minutes a night. You can take a 60-70 point Top line Center from many teams and they would be lucky to get low 40’s points given Pens placement.

So we agree both on the fact that Brassard is still a good player.

My point is that he was not performing in Ottawa at the level he was in NYR, which is ok, because he was out-of-his-mind good in NY. If he was, he would have been the facto Ottawa's #1C... and would not have played a full 2 mins less minutes per game than Kyle Turris.

 

[Viqsi]

How does it contradict? I have never posted what I expected to get back. How do you know what I expect. A team that thinks Brassard can be a #2 for them and has playoff aspirations like the Bluejackets will be willing to give a decent amount if they believe he is what they need. For example someone would still pay a hefty amount for many underperforming players that their scouts believes would do well in their system. What that is I have no idea.

You said that you expect "#2C value" for Brassard. That's not a discount, given how atrocious this year has been. That's the sort of price to be expected if he'd had a slight setback, not a drop to half his usual points per game rate.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

You obviously just started following Brass.

His performances in 13-14 and 14-15 and even 15-16 to an extent were what made money of us Penguins fans really excited for him.

No, I knew how good he was for the Rangers, duh. Pens play the Rangers and have been rivals for years. The reason I was excited to get Brassard was because I knew he was playing for the most defensive system I have saw in years and still had top end 5v5 points. I thought he was the perfect fit but unfortunately he hasn’t done well playing in a 3C position with less minutes than he is used to. Pens need to find a player that can and is happy playing 3C.

 

[Gurglesons]

You said that you expect "#2C value" for Brassard. That's not a discount, given how atrocious this year has been. That's the sort of price to be expected if he'd had a slight setback, not a drop to half his usual points per game rate.

If the Penguins move Brassard for futures I expect a slightly smaller packer than what they gave to Ottawa.

If the Pens move Brassard for a roster player I expect them to get f’d in terms of actual value.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

You said that you expect "#2C value" for Brassard. That's not a discount, given how atrocious this year has been. That's the sort of price to be expected if he'd had a slight setback, not a drop to half his usual points per game rate.

I do think the team that trades for him is going to use him in that spot. Pens will keep him before not getting decent value. If a playoff team thinks he can be an improvement for the 2C spot they will pay good value to get him. This stuff happens all the time. He will most likely get a little less but I think his value is still high even with his poor time with the Pens. What that is I don’t know but it isn’t peanuts.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

If the Penguins move Brassard for futures I expect a slightly smaller packer than what they gave to Ottawa.

If the Pens move Brassard for a roster player I expect them to get f’d in terms of actual value.

I would gladly take slightly less than what we gave up to the Sens. That would be awesome and I don’t expect near that much personally. We gave up a top goalie prospect, 1st round pick and Cole. I would be happy with 1st round pick. Use that with our 1st round pick and get an upgrade at 3C.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

However much weight people want to put on Brassard's new 3C role affecting his numbers this year, it seems unlikely that the Pens would move him without getting a good return.

First, because the supply for scoring line centers at the deadline is pretty short and Brassard's cap hit could fit on just about any team.

Second, because Brassard's better than Sheahan, who would be the de facto 3C if Brass left.

Third, because Brass can still have value for us in a top 6 LW role if we get a new 3C by other means.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

However much weight people want to put on Brassard's new 3C role affecting his numbers this year, it seems unlikely that the Pens would move him without getting a good return.

First, because the supply for scoring line centers at the deadline is pretty short and Brassard's cap hit could fit on just about any team.

Second, because Brassard's better than Sheahan, who would be the de facto 3C if Brass left.

Third, because Brass can still have value for us in a top 6 LW role if we get a new 3C by other means.

Good points.

 

[Viqsi]

I do think the team that trades for him is going to use him in that spot. Pens will keep him before not getting decent value. If a playoff team thinks he can be an improvement for the 2C spot they will pay good value to get him. This stuff happens all the time. He will most likely get a little less but I think his value is still high even with his poor time with the Pens. What that is I don’t know but it isn’t peanuts.

That says to me that y'all will probably end up keeping him.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

That says to me that y'all will probably end up keeping him.

Will see, I have no problem keeping him and moving him to 2nd line LW and trade our 1st and a defenseman for a better fit for the 3C spot. Rutherford is pretty good at dealing so I won’t be surprised to see a nice return. After what we got back for Scuderi nothing would surprise me.