Proposal: Brassard for Skinner @ 3 mil

[TGWL]

They're both impending UFAs who scored at the exact same pace last year, Brassard plays a more valuable position, and he already has money retained on his deal to bring him down to 3 mil.

They can always look for a scoring line center elsewhere. Good luck.

Brassard hasn't looked like Brassard since he left the Rangers. He had a better season last year than the one before but I don't think he holds the same value as Skinner. You'd have to add in my opinion.

 

[Stickpucker]

Brassard has been a 40pt center the last 2 years. The Canes have plenty of those with Rask and Staal. No need to pick up Brassard at 30 he seems on the downswing.

 

[Seanaconda]

This would be the year to take Skinner he tends to bounce between good years so he is due

 

[Empoleon8771]

To quote you: Based on what? What evidence do you have that Brassard is a better 2-way player?

Ask any Hurricanes fan what they think of Skinner defensively. Now look at Brassard's shot suppression stats. There you go, there's your evidence.

And I like how you are comparing "pace" over 4 seasons. I guess that means that Brassard is missing games and breaking down because he's older. Boy that makes him realy valuable!

A. He missed 10 games this season
B. In the previous 5 seasons, Brassard missed 7 games total.

Why don't you actually look at the stats before you say something stupid?

And why limit it 3 out of 4 seasons? Why not... oh I don't know... look at careers.

Why is what they did in 2010 even remotely relevant to the players they are in 2018?

Again- Skinner gets more goals per game, Skinner gets more pts per game.

Yeah, but "other people" are the "biased" ones.

I'm not a fan of either team. If Brassard was on CAR and Skinner was on PITT I'd be saying the same thing. The only thing is.... you wouldn't be.

And there it is, there's no way I could ever be saying that Brassard has scored more per game in 3 of the last 4 seasons, which makes him at least on the same level as Skinner. No, it's just bias. Screw facts, let's just throw around bias to try and win an argument, that will sure work!

There were people in here that were saying Skinner was multiple >s better than Brassard. This is based on literally nothing. Even if you do look at their entire careers, Brassard is a 50 point center and Skinner is a 55 point winger. The difference is minimal between the two. This isn't saying Skinner is bad, he's a legit top line winger. Brassard is just a lower end 1C, and the difference between a top line winger and a lower end 1C isn't very big.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Ask any Hurricanes fan what they think of Skinner defensively. Now look at Brassard's shot suppression stats. There you go, there's your evidence.



A. He missed 10 games this season
B. In the previous 5 seasons, Brassard missed 7 games total.

Why don't you actually look at the stats before you say something stupid?



Why is what they did in 2010 even remotely relevant to the players they are in 2018?



And there it is, there's no way I could ever be saying that Brassard has scored more per game in 3 of the last 4 seasons, which makes him at least on the same level as Skinner. No, it's just bias. Screw facts, let's just throw around bias to try and win an argument, that will sure work!

Hysterical.
Accuse others of bias.
Fact, Skinner is younger, Skinner puts up more pts.
Please send link to shot suppression stats. Thanks.

 

[bobc222]

Skinner: 50 ES goals in 159 games
Crosby: 50 ES goals in 155 games
Malkin: 50 ES goals in 140 games

So it's equal to Crosby, after he had a terrible season for his standards, and he scored the same as Malkin in 20 more games.

Let's be clear, not saying Crosby is bad, second ok your stats might be right, for reference I used this: Even Strength Scoring Leaders: 2016-17 NHL Season
Finally, ok Skinner is bad, feel free to keep Brassard. I'll take the player who had more points last two seasons and currently plays for the less-stacked team.

 

[Benstheman]

Skinner worth more to Canes and to Pitts.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Skinner is absolutely a better player than Brassard. That's not a knock on brassard, but Skinner is an elite ES goal scorer - if he were to be put in a more favorable offensive role he'd be a consistent threat to score 40 goals. He's also excellent on the forecheck and draws tons of penalties.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

I think straight up with no retention is more fair for Carolina. I do think Canes fans are vastly under valuing Brassard here though.

Let’s consider what he was JUST traded for. 2018 1st, Gustavsson, Cole, and Reaves.

I cannot see a scenario in which Skinner returns more than that without retention.


If Canes fans don’t want to make the trade, that’s fine. Just say that you don’t want Brassard. Making biased claims about how bad he is just makes no sense at all and ruins credibility imo.

 

[bobc222]

I think straight up with no retention is more fair for Carolina. I do think Canes fans are vastly under valuing Brassard here though.

Let’s consider what he was JUST traded for. 2018 1st, Gustavsson, Cole, and Reaves.

I cannot see a scenario in which Skinner returns more than that without retention.


If Canes fans don’t want to make the trade, that’s fine. Just say that you don’t want Brassard. Making biased claims about how bad he is just makes no sense at all and ruins credibility imo.

1. Canes fans don't want Brassard
2. No one is saying Brassard is bad, simply Skinner is better
3. OP has been attacking Skinner and claiming he is a bad player
4. Other posters are simply asserting that is not the case

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hysterical.

How was anything I said hysterical? Why don't you actually respond to my claims?

Accuse others of bias.

Didn't you literally do this in the last post? Seems insanely hypocritical.

Fact, Skinner is younger, Skinner puts up more pts.

The point difference is marginal and being younger doesn't make him a better player.

Please send link to shot suppression stats. Thanks.

I'll have to do some digging, but I'll post them when I find them. I screenshotted Brassard's HERO chart at some point within the last month, I will post it when I find it.

Let's be clear, not saying Crosby is bad, second ok your stats might be right, for reference I used this: Even Strength Scoring Leaders: 2016-17 NHL Season
Finally, ok Skinner is bad, feel free to keep Brassard. I'll take the player who had more points last two seasons and currently plays for the less-stacked team.

This is based on literally nothing. Even if you do look at their entire careers, Brassard is a 50 point center and Skinner is a 55 point winger. The difference is minimal between the two. This isn't saying Skinner is bad, he's a legit top line winger. Brassard is just a lower end 1C, and the difference between a top line winger and a lower end 1C isn't very big.

But yes, I said that Skinner is bad. I was arguing that Skinner sucked, not that saying Skinner is much better than Brassard is absolutely asinine and based on nothing.

Skinner is absolutely a better player than Brassard. That's not a knock on brassard, but Skinner is an elite ES goal scorer - if he were to be put in a more favorable offensive role he'd be a consistent threat to score 40 goals. He's also excellent on the forecheck and draws tons of penalties.

These arguments sound vaguely familiar to the Crosby vs Ovechkin arguments from back in the day, to be honest. Some people are saying one is better than the other because of goals, while others are saying there's more to hockey than goals.

Brassard hasn't looked like Brassard since he left the Rangers. He had a better season last year than the one before but I don't think he holds the same value as Skinner. You'd have to add in my opinion.

We do know Brassard's value, because he was traded pretty recently. Is Skinner more valuable than Gustavsson, a 1st and a 3rd? Yeah, probably, but it's not by an absurd amount.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Didn't you literally do this in the last post? Seems insanely hypocritical.



.

Yes I did, as an homage to a post you made earlier accusing a Canes fan of bias.

Seems insanely hypocritical. Or is only hypocritical when someone else does it, which would make it... hypocritical.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Canes fans don’t want to make the trade, that’s fine. Just say that you don’t want Brassard. Making biased claims about how bad he is just makes no sense at all and ruins credibility imo.

Huh? Where did anyone make "biased claims" about Brassard or saying how bad he was. Some fans (one of them not even a Canes fan) said Skinner is worth more than Brassard and then a couple of Pens fans started dumping on Skinner. I think you have your fan bases mixed up.

 

[bobc222]

There were people in here that were saying Skinner was multiple >s better than Brassard. This is based on literally nothing. Even if you do look at their entire careers, Brassard is a 50 point center and Skinner is a 55 point winger. The difference is minimal between the two. This isn't saying Skinner is bad, he's a legit top line winger. Brassard is just a lower end 1C, and the difference between a top line winger and a lower end 1C isn't very big.

Um...so why do you believe that Brassard is a low-end 1C? We can make a poll if you want but I don't think anyone is going to agree with that.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

1. Canes fans don't want Brassard
2. No one is saying Brassard is bad, simply Skinner is better
3. OP has been attacking Skinner and claiming he is a bad player
4. Other posters are simply asserting that is not the case

I think Skinner is the better player but also consider that he is a rental Winger, one of the lower valued positions in the league. I don’t think he returns more than what Brassard got, so I don’t see the value being that far off.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Um...so why do you believe that Brassard is a low-end 1C? We can make a poll if you want but I don't think anyone is going to agree with that.

Because in 3 of the last 4 years, he has put up lower end 1C numbers at ES? Seems fairly reasonable. 55 points is 1C production at this point, 60-65 points is probably average for a 1C.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think Skinner is the better player but also consider that he is a rental Winger, one of the lower valued positions in the league. I don’t think he returns more than what Brassard got, so I don’t see the value being that far off.

What did Rick Nash, who didn't put up Skinner's numbers, get as a rental?

And for what it's worth. I've always liked Brassard- in his CBS days when he was somewhat underperforming to what was expected, to his NYR days when he was great, to OTT and PITT.

He's a good player. But he isn't as good as he was a few years ago, and he isn't as good as Skinner. Nothing wrong with that, but i haven't seen 1 single non-Pitt fan agree that he's better.

 

[TGWL]

Rangers have Brassard. He's a #2c. Penguins get Brassard, he's a low #1C. This shit is funny.

 

[GoldiFox]

I think Skinner is the better player but also consider that he is a rental Winger, one of the lower valued positions in the league. I don’t think he returns more than what Brassard got, so I don’t see the value being that far off.

Brassard got that value with 2 Playoff runs left on his deal. Canes are asking for a better package right now for the better player with only 1 year left.

"Lower valued positions in the league"... that is a completely asinine way to devalue Skinner. Positions are important if a team has a void, but any team looking at Skinner is a Cup contender adding him for secondary scoring. Skinner is one of the best secondary scorers in the league. His Primary Points % over the past 3 years is something like 89%, 2nd to only Malkin for top line players. He'd be a demon on Pittsburgh's 3rd line playing weak competition.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Rangers have Brassard. He's a #2c. Penguins get Brassard, he's a low #1C. This **** is funny.

Brassard put up 1C production with the Rangers, so I'm not sure where this comment is coming from. I don't remember saying Brassard was a 2C with the Rangers.

Brassard got that value with 2 Playoff runs left on his deal. Canes are asking for a better package right now for the better player with only 1 year left.

"Lower valued positions in the league"... that is a completely asinine way to devalue Skinner. Positions are important if a team has a void, but any team looking at Skinner is a Cup contender adding him for secondary scoring. Skinner is one of the best secondary scorers in the league. His Primary Points % over the past 3 years is something like 89%, 2nd to only Malkin for top line players. He'd be a demon on Pittsburgh's 3rd line playing weak competition.

That's actually my biggest concern with Skinner, where would you play him? Kessel seems to be on the 3rd line, and that's a nightmare duo (in a bad way) if you put Skinner and Kessel together. I'm not sure Skinner plays a style that complements Malkin well, and Crosby has Guentzel already. Sure, you could do Skinner-Crosby and Guentzel-Malkin, but I think most wouldn't want to split up the Guentzel-Crosby duo considering what they just did in the playoffs.

 

[bobc222]

Current Poll : https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/brassards-role.2517397/

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Brassard got that value with 2 Playoff runs left on his deal. Canes are asking for a better package right now for the better player with only 1 year left.

"Lower valued positions in the league"... that is a completely asinine way to devalue Skinner. Positions are important if a team has a void, but any team looking at Skinner is a Cup contender adding him for secondary scoring. Skinner is one of the best secondary scorers in the league. His Primary Points % over the past 3 years is something like 89%, 2nd to only Malkin for top line players. He'd be a demon on Pittsburgh's 3rd line playing weak competition.

I’m not devaluing Skinner. Wing is not as valuable as C or D, that’s a fact. Centers pull more in trades than wings.

And by your logic, why would a team pay MORE for a rental than a guy with 2 playoff runs left? Seems like it would be the other way around.

 

[Seanaconda]

Skinner has flaws even tho I think he is better . They tend to just put him on his own line because idk if he can receive a pass and he cherry picks when he's not scoring so he loses whatever defense he had

 

[CanadienShark]

They're both impending UFAs who scored at the exact same pace last year, Brassard plays a more valuable position, and he already has money retained on his deal to bring him down to 3 mil.

They can always look for a scoring line center elsewhere. Good luck.

That's a good argument if the players are equal calibre. They're not.

 

[GoldiFox]

I’m not devaluing Skinner. Wing is not as valuable as C or D, that’s a fact. Centers pull more in trades than wings.

And by your logic, why would a team pay MORE for a rental than a guy with 2 playoff runs left? Seems like it would be the other way around.

That is a meaningless blanket statement. I can say "Columbus should really trade Panarin for Victor Rask because, it is a FACT that C are worth more than wingers in trade and everyone knows that rental LW are low value", but I'd be wrong because generalizing positional value to fit a specific player trade is silly.