Proposal: Brassard for Skinner @ 3 mil

[Dipsy Doodle]

Rutherford was talking yesterday about trying Brassard on LW in camp. Rather than pursue that nonsense, how about we send Carolina a scoring line center for a scoring winger they're not going to re-sign?

FWIW, I'd rather keep Brass at 3C than move him, but if the Pens are going to try the square peg in a round hole, we might as well look for a round peg.

Click to read more...

 

[Dr Quincy]

Rutherford was talking yesterday about trying Brassard on LW in camp. Rather than pursue that nonsense, how about we send Carolina a scoring line center for a scoring winger they're not going to re-sign?

Skinner is worth more than Brassard as is.
Retained, he's worth a lot more.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Skinner is worth more than Brassard as is.
Retained, he's worth a lot more.

They're both impending UFAs who scored at the exact same pace last year, Brassard plays a more valuable position, and he already has money retained on his deal to bring him down to 3 mil.

They can always look for a scoring line center elsewhere. Good luck.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Skinner is worth more than Brassard as is.
Retained, he's worth a lot more.

No, he's really not. Based on what is he worth more?

 

[Dr Quincy]

No, he's really not. Based on what is he worth more?

Yes he really is. Based on he's a better player.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yes he really is. Based on he's a better player.

How'd that work out scoring-wise last year?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes he really is. Based on he's a better player.

Okay, based on what? What are you possibly basing this on? Because statistically, Brassard had a better pace than Skinner had this season and outscored Skinner in 2 of the 3 seasons before this season. Brassard is also a center who's solid defensively, while Skinner is a winger who's atrocious defensively.

There's really nothing to support the thought that Skinner is better than Brassard unless you're solely looking at his 2016-2017 season. Skinner in most of his seasons has been about a 50 point winger. Brassard for most of his career has been about a 50 point center.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Okay, based on what? What are you possibly basing this on? Because statistically, Brassard had a better pace than Skinner had this season and outscored Skinner in 2 of the 3 seasons before this season. Brassard is also a center who's solid defensively, while Skinner is a winger who's atrocious defensively.

Skinner is better defen...uh
Skinner plays a more important posi...uh
Skinner is signed long...uh
Skinner's younger!

 

[bobc222]

They can always look for a scoring line center elsewhere. Good luck.

Staal, a defensive center had the same amount of points as Brassard last year. If Canes want, what you call, a "scoring" center, Brassard (46 points) is not it. Especially when you consider Brassard was playing sheltered minutes in Pitt while Staal played the tough matchups. Oh and just so you know, Skinner has more EV goals over the last two years than Malkin, Crosby and Kessel, so yeah Skinner>>Brassard

 

[bobc222]

Skinner is better defen...uh
Skinner plays a more important posi...uh
Skinner is signed long...uh
Skinner's younger!

Skinner is consistently one of the top penalty drawers, has elite TK/GW stats, and doesn't need the PP to score.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Staal, a defensive center had the same amount of points as Brassard last year. If Canes want, what you call, a "scoring" center, Brassard (46 points) is not it. Especially when you consider Brassard was playing sheltered minutes in Pitt while Staal played the tough matchups. Oh and just so you know, Skinner has more EV goals over the last two years than Malkin, Crosby and Kessel, so yeah Skinner>>Brassard

A. He played for the Penguins for like 10 games.
B. Playing "sheltered minutes" isn't good for production.
C. The thought that Skinner>>Brassard is so wildly biased that I don't have a serious rebuttal.

But yeah, goals are all that matters or something. A 1 dimensional winger who doesn't score more than Brassard in most seasons is better than Brassard because reasons.

Skinner is consistently one of the top penalty drawers, has elite TK/GW stats, and doesn't need the PP to score.

Brassard had the same amount of ES points as Skinner had last season while playing in 10 less games.

 

[Dr Quincy]

They're both impending UFAs who scored at the exact same pace last year, Brassard plays a more valuable position, and he already has money retained on his deal to bring him down to 3 mil.

They can always look for a scoring line center elsewhere. Good luck.

I'm not a Canes fan.
1) Over their careers- Skinner scores .35 goals per game. Brassard .22
2) Oh but I'm not taking into account assists... Skinner gets .65 ppg Brassard .6 and btw since there are about 1.7 assists per goal, goals > assists. But even rated equally, Skinner gets more points. If the exact same pace in 1 year means something to you, then a better pace in multiple years must be even better.... no?
3) He plays the more valuable position so well that you mention in your post that the GM wants to move him to a different position.
4) Yes, a #1C is more valuable than a 1st line LW. But a #3 C, which is what Brassard is on Pitt (though he'd be a #2 on other teams) isn't more valuable than a 1st line LW.
5) Cool that Brassard has money retained. But again- Skinner is better and CAR wouldn't deal him straight up for Brassard. Asking them to also now retain in order to get the lesser player increases the gap.
6) Brassard is 5 years older.

 

[bobc222]

C

A. He played for the Penguins for like 10 games.
B. Playing "sheltered minutes" isn't good for production.
C. The thought that Skinner>>Brassard is so wildly biased that I don't have a serious rebuttal.

But yeah, goals are all that matters or something. A 1 dimensional winger who doesn't score more than Brassard in most seasons is better than Brassard because reasons.



Brassard had the same amount of ES points as Skinner had last season while playing in 10 less games.

Conveniently failed to respond to the most important point... Oh and just so you know, Skinner has more EV goals over the last two years than Malkin, Crosby and Kessel

 

[GoldiFox]

Skinner is better defen...uh
Skinner plays a more important posi...uh
Skinner is signed long...uh
Skinner's younger!

Didn’t you make the OP? The one acquiring Skinner for Brassard? Why is the main person here raging against Skinner the one who made the “Skinner to my team” thread?

Gaslighting the scenario to make it seem better? Solid approach.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Okay, based on what? What are you possibly basing this on? Because statistically, Brassard had a better pace than Skinner had this season and outscored Skinner in 2 of the 3 seasons before this season. Brassard is also a center who's solid defensively, while Skinner is a winger who's atrocious defensively.

There's really nothing to support the thought that Skinner is better than Brassard unless you're solely looking at his 2016-2017 season. Skinner in most of his seasons has been about a 50 point winger. Brassard for most of his career has been about a 50 point center.

See above.

But who cares about how many pts offensive players get right?

And neither player is valuable for their defense, so trying to bring that into in this case is silly.

 

[Reality Czech]

How'd that work out scoring-wise last year?

So nothing that happened before last year matters?

 

[Dr Quincy]

How'd that work out scoring-wise last year?

So Blake Wheeler is better than Sidney Crosby?

Interesting take.

 

[Empoleon8771]

C

Conveniently failed to respond to the most important point... Oh and just so you know, Skinner has more EV goals over the last two years than Malkin, Crosby and Kessel

I forgot ES goals were the only stat that counted. Good to know.

I also like how you're clinging on to that 2 year window, as if what Skinner did in 2016-2017 is at all his normal level of production.

See above.

But who cares about how many pts offensive players get right?

And neither player is valuable for their defense, so trying to bring that into in this case is silly.

And Brassard has had a better pace than Skinner has in 3 of the last 4 seasons. How is bringing in defense silly when Brassard is a solid 2-way player? That just seems to be not including something you disagree with for no good reason.

They're extremely comparable offensively overall, while Brassard is the better 2-way player and Skinner is the better goal scorer. I'm not seeing anything that even remotely shows that Skinner is much better than Brassard.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Skinner has scored less than 20G once in his NHL Career and has scored 30 three times in his career, Brassard has scored more than 20G twice in his career.
Skinner has averaged 29G-53P / 82 games in his career, Brassard has averaged 19G-49P / 82 games his entire career.
Skinner has done this while playing on crap, low scoring teams with crap linemates.

Skinner is the far superior goal scorer and overall superior offensive player.

That said, Skinner is not good defensively so Brassard is a far superior 2-way player. Brassard is also a center where-as Skinner is a W so that adds to his value as well.

 

[bobc222]

See above.

But who cares about how many pts offensive players get right?

And neither player is valuable for their defense, so trying to bring that into in this case is silly.

That's fair but also, Skinner was second in the league last season in TK only McDavid beats him.

 

[bobc222]

I forgot ES goals were the only stat that counted. Good to know.

I also like how you're clinging on to that 2 year window, as if what Skinner did in 2016-2017 is at all his normal level of production.

Well Carolina had a terrible PP and Skinner didn't even play on the starting unit. What's more he was centered by Derek Ryan the overwhelming majority of the time so he had to do it himself. Yeah give Carolina a stacked PP with a top 100 all time player, a generational center, an elite sniper, and a good QB and Skinner could easily put up 40G. The fact is that Pitt's top scorers are more reliant on the PP than Skinner is, he has the ability to create offense with absolutely no help from his center.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well Carolina had a terrible PP and Skinner didn't even play on the starting unit. What's more he was centered by Derek Ryan the overwhelming majority of the time so he had to do it himself. Yeah give Carolina a stacked PP with a top 100 all time player, a generational center, an elite sniper, and a good QB and Skinner could easily put up 40G. The fact is that Pitt's top scorers are more reliant on the PP than Skinner is, he has the ability to create offense with absolutely no help from his center.

Do you really want to go down this route, claiming that Sidney freaking Crosby is more reliant on powerplay scoring than Jeff Skinner is? Let's hold up for a second, here. You're talking about Sidney Crosby, the guy who won the Rocket Richard a season ago while scoring 30 ES goals in 75 games and the guy who has a "bad season" when he only puts up 50 ES points a season. Skinner has never even hit 50 ES points in a season.

Your stats also aren't even right for Crosby and Malkin. Here's what their ES goal totals are in the past 2 years:

Skinner: 50 ES goals in 159 games
Crosby: 50 ES goals in 155 games
Malkin: 50 ES goals in 140 games

So it's equal to Crosby, after he had a terrible season for his standards, and he scored the same as Malkin in 20 more games.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I forgot ES goals were the only stat that counted. Good to know.

I also like how you're clinging on to that 2 year window, as if what Skinner did in 2016-2017 is at all his normal level of production.



And Brassard has had a better pace than Skinner has in 3 of the last 4 seasons. How is bringing in defense silly when Brassard is a solid 2-way player? That just seems to be not including something you disagree with for no good reason.

They're extremely comparable offensively overall, while Brassard is the better 2-way player and Skinner is the better goal scorer. I'm not seeing anything that even remotely shows that Skinner is much better than Brassard.

To quote you: Based on what? What evidence do you have that Brassard is a better 2-way player?

And I like how you are comparing "pace" over 4 seasons. I guess that means that Brassard is missing games and breaking down because he's older. Boy that makes him realy valuable!

And why limit it 3 out of 4 seasons? Why not... oh I don't know... look at careers.

Again- Skinner gets more goals per game, Skinner gets more pts per game.

Yeah, but "other people" are the "biased" ones.

I'm not a fan of either team. If Brassard was on CAR and Skinner was on PITT I'd be saying the same thing. The only thing is.... you wouldn't be.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Do you really want to go down this route, claiming that Sidney freaking Crosby is more reliant on powerplay scoring than Jeff Skinner is? Let's hold up for a second, here. You're talking about Sidney Crosby, the guy who won the Rocket Richard a season ago while scoring 30 ES goals in 75 games and the guy who has a "bad season" when he only puts up 50 ES points a season. Skinner has never even hit 50 ES points in a season.

Sidney Crosby isn't as good as Blake Wheeler. That's what one of your fellow Pens fans is saying, since know, pts last year is all that matter.

 

[Hogan86]

Skinner is better defen...uh
Skinner plays a more important posi...uh
Skinner is signed long...uh
Skinner's younger!

If you have so many knocks on Skinner then why do you want him so bad? This proposal is ridiculous. There is no way the Canes retain on Skinner if they trade him, especially in this deal because Skinner is a much better offensive player than Brassard. Skinner is only 26 years old and has several 30 goal campaigns under his belt, on one of the weakest offensive teams of the last decade. Brassard has never done that. Talk about wishful thinking...