Brady Tkachuk or William Nylander

[AvroArrow]

Over Nylander’s first 3 seasons (didn’t count his 22 games in 2015-16), he put up a 56 point pace.

Over Tkachuk’s first 3 seasons, he put up a 52 point pace, while scoring more goals in less games.

Over the next few years, I expect to see Tkachuk grow into a 60-65 point unicorn. Meanwhile, I’d be very surprised if we haven’t seen the best of Nylander already.

Nylander is the significantly better player right now. Tkachuk has the physical edge, but that's about it. Nylander is the far better goal scorer, skater, play maker.

And if you think he's already peaked then yeah LOL you're about to be surprised big time although I'm sure you watched him dominate Ottawa in back to back games. Nylander is having his breakout season this year, book it.

Tkachuk has a career high of 45 points so far. Nylander put up 61 points in each of his first 2 years, I like how you conveniently left out that he missed all of training camp and came into his third season in terrible shape due to contract negotiations but since you missed it, i'll mention it here.

Since 2016-17 he put up a 65 point pace, excluding the year he missed the entire training camp + a few months of the season due to contract hold out. He was a significantly better scorer compared to Tkachuk in his first 2 seasons, and is miles ahead of him right now offensively. I really like Brady but you realllly did everything to manipulate the narrative.

 

[bert]

People should try to watch Nylander sometime, he was bullying the Habs off pucks all night. I don't care if he goes around looking for hits, if he and Brady go into a corner, Brady is not coming out with the puck.

Lol. Ok.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Nylander is great but he's a dime a dozen player. Almost every team in the league has a skill guy like him or close.

Brady has no true comparables. Who's the last guy to have as many hits and shots while being a top line player? Young Ovechkin? Obviously Brady is no OV, but you get the idea...

 

[bobholly39]

Same tier of player, so it's close. Both might have another gear to channel still, so we'll see.

Gonna go with Nylander

 

[sr edler]

Who's the last guy to have as many hits and shots while being a top line player?

Dustin Brown?

 

[lawrence]

Willy for me.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Dustin Brown?

Good catch. Didn't think of him

He was a pretty consistent 25 goal, 55 point guy when he signed for 9.14% of the cap for 8yrs at age 28. That's 7.449 in today's cap.

A 0.700 premium over Brown for Brady seems fair given Brady is expected to be a 30/35 guy and it eats up more of his prime years rather than his twilight years like Brown.

 

[Lil Tuzzi Bert]

Willys hitting 70 points this year, he's taken another step. Brady i'd love on my team as well.

 

[AvroArrow]

Nylander is great but he's a dime a dozen player. Almost every team in the league has a skill guy like him or close.

Brady has no true comparables. Who's the last guy to have as many hits and shots while being a top line player? Young Ovechkin? Obviously Brady is no OV, but you get the idea...

No, more than half the teams in the league don't have a guy like him.

You calling Tkachuk a top line player is like the leafs calling Ritchie a #1LW, or Bozak a #1C. Just because he plays that role on your team doesn't mean he is that level of player. He's slightly above average offensively with a physical edge. Loads of potential, I would love the kid on Toronto, but you are really over rating him.

You're confusing him with the likes of Ovechkin/Iginla, true elite power forwards who could score. He's more of a Milan Lucic/Dustin Brown than OV.

 

[KevinRedkey]

No, more than half the teams in the league don't have a guy like him.

You calling Tkachuk a top line player is like the leafs calling Ritchie a #1LW, or Bozak a #1C. Just because he plays that role on your team doesn't mean he is that level of player. He's slightly above average offensively with a physical edge. Loads of potential, I would love the kid on Toronto, but you are really over rating him.

You're confusing him with the likes of Ovechkin/Iginla, true elite power forwards who could score. He's more of a Milan Lucic/Dustin Brown than OV.

I disagree with Nylander.
Marner, Point, Ehlers, Debrincat, Pettersson, Barzal, Aho, Backstrom, Guentzel, Giroux, Rantanen, Gaudreau, Huberdeau, Pastrnak, Kaprizov, Panarin.. that's 16 guys on different teams off the top of my head that are better or arguably as good as Nylander, that are 'skill guys like him or close" (which was my description you disagreew with). I'm, sure there's more as well. Either way much more common than a player like Brady.

Ritchie's career high in points is 31, and he was drafted in 2014... Don't even pretend he's a 1st liner.

I expect Tkachuk to be a Dustin Brown who shoots a little more, agitates more, and gets a few more points. Brown was a leader, hitting machine, 30/30 guy at his peak, and a 25/30 guy in his prime. I believe Brady will be a 35/35 guy at his peak, and 30/35 guy in his prime. Is that OV or Iginla level? no.. but he's also not paid like those 2.

OV got 18.96% of the cap
Iggy got 17.95% of the cap
Tkachuk got 10.07%
Lucic: 10.00% (2014 with Boston)
Brown got 9.14% (2013)

And for the record - Dustin Brown was a 1st liner in his prime, and Tkachuk will be for the remainder of his contract IMO. He's top 5 in shots and hits, while being a guy who should hit 25+ goals as soon as this year.

 

[sebsisles]

Good poll...going to be a very close result either way.

 

[AvroArrow]

I disagree with Nylander.
Marner, Point, Ehlers, Debrincat, Pettersson, Barzal, Aho, Backstrom, Guentzel, Giroux, Rantanen, Gaudreau, Huberdeau, Pastrnak, Kaprizov, Panarin.. that's 16 guys on different teams off the top of my head that are better or arguably as good as Nylander, that are 'skill guys like him or close" (which was my description you disagreew with). I'm, sure there's more as well. Either way much more common than a player like Brady.

Ritchie's career high in points is 31, and he was drafted in 2014... Don't even pretend he's a 1st liner.

I expect Tkachuk to be a Dustin Brown who shoots a little more, agitates more, and gets a few more points. Brown was a leader, hitting machine, 30/30 guy at his peak, and a 25/30 guy in his prime. I believe Brady will be a 35/35 guy at his peak, and 30/35 guy in his prime. Is that OV or Iginla level? no.. but he's also not paid like those 2.

OV got 18.96% of the cap
Iggy got 17.95% of the cap
Tkachuk got 10.07%
Lucic: 10.00% (2014 with Boston)
Brown got 9.14% (2013)

And for the record - Dustin Brown was a 1st liner in his prime, and Tkachuk will be for the remainder of his contract IMO. He's top 5 in shots and hits, while being a guy who should hit 25+ goals as soon as this year.

Dustin Brown/Milan Lucic were both legitimate top 6 power forwards in their prime, I loved both of their games.

Point, Petterson, Barzal, Aho, Backstrom,Giroux, are all centers and even stylistically not even comparable. Also what they bring offensively is significantly better than what Brady provides with his physicality. I have no doubt Brady Tkachuk will play on the 1st line in Ottawa.

I mentioned Ritchie as a joke because he plays on our first line and isn't actually a real 1st liner. I was making a point, just because a player plays on your teams 1st liner doesn't mean he's actually a top line player.

It's totally ok for Sens fans to be excited about him and locking him up long term, I would be excited af too if it was my team. But the "I believe" that's the part. He may never reach that peak, or he might blow it out of the water and become a 100pt guy, but you're evaluating him on what you believe his ceiling is and ignoring the player he is today. While also ignoring the player Nylander is today. We can argue about potential endlessly, only time will tell. But based on the players they are today, I take Willy and you're really under rating the hell out of him. Anyways cheers, Sens fans have a lot to be excited about with this kid, the future looks promising.

 

[6stringmofo]

This a Leaf powder piece?

Completely different players.

 

[Bileur]

Nylander is the significantly better player right now. Tkachuk has the physical edge, but that's about it. Nylander is the far better goal scorer, skater, play maker.

And if you think he's already peaked then yeah LOL you're about to be surprised big time although I'm sure you watched him dominate Ottawa in back to back games. Nylander is having his breakout season this year, book it.

Tkachuk has a career high of 45 points so far. Nylander put up 61 points in each of his first 2 years, I like how you conveniently left out that he missed all of training camp and came into his third season in terrible shape due to contract negotiations but since you missed it, i'll mention it here.

Since 2016-17 he put up a 65 point pace, excluding the year he missed the entire training camp + a few months of the season due to contract hold out. He was a significantly better scorer compared to Tkachuk in his first 2 seasons, and is miles ahead of him right now offensively. I really like Brady but you realllly did everything to manipulate the narrative.

I think it’s cute that you keep referring to Brady’s physical game being an « edge » over Nylander to undersell what he brings on that front.

Brady had as many hits (12) in the January 28 2021 game against Vancouver as Nylander had all season.

 

[The90]

I think it’s cute that you keep referring to Brady’s physical game being an « edge » over Nylander to undersell what he brings on that front.

Brady had as many hits (12) in the January 28 2021 game against Vancouver as Nylander had all season.

…And yet he still makes a good point.

Nylander is the far more naturally talented played outside of physicality. What if Nylander wasn’t playing behind Matthews Tavares and Marner? What if he were getting prime time minutes as the #1 option like BT? It’s a valid question. And a solid argument.

That being said the leafs already have 3 other Nylander type players so I would think hard at a swap of the 2. They’d welcome BT’s sandpaper to the top 6.

 

[Bileur]

…And yet he still makes a good point.

Nylander is the far more naturally talented played outside of physicality. What if Nylander wasn’t playing behind Matthews Tavares and Marner? What if he were getting prime time minutes as the #1 option like BT? It’s a valid question. And a solid argument.

That being said the leafs already have 3 other Nylander type players so I would think hard at a swap of the 2. They’d welcome BT’s sandpaper to the top 6.

It’s an interesting argument but once again, this doesn’t give credit to one of Brady’s main strengths while glossing over one of Nylander’s main weaknesses. Ice time isn’t given in a vaccum outside of a player’s control.

Brady doesn’t lead the sens forwards in TOI because he’s the most skilled; Stutzle also plays LW and is far more skilled. Brady doesn’t lead them in TOI because he’s the best two way player; Brown is a far better two way player. He leads the team in TOI because his motor is always running hot and he brings consistent effort game-in, game-out. When the rest of the team doesn’t show up, Brady is still out there driving people through the boards and getting into cross check battles in front of the net and more often than not his leadership gets the guys going.

When Nylander is on he’s one of the best in the league. When he isn’t, he’s invisible and can go stretches of low production. Of course it helps Brady that he doesn’t have someone of Marner’s level playing above him, but at the same time, it’s not like Nylander is playing with a scrub, he’s almost exclusively played with John Tavares as his Center last year. A Center who is far better than any Center Brady has ever played with. Why isn’t his line earning more ice time? Why wouldn’t Keefe throw them out more and cut back on the 3rd and 4th line’s ice time? I’d argue part of that reason is inconsistency.

Like you suggested, building a team is about balance, and you can’t have just skill or just grit and gumption. Brady is one of the best options in the league at bringing grit and gumption to a top 6, and he earns his TOI.

It’s also complete garbage to bring a Ritchie comparison into play with the “just because he’s on your first line doesn’t mean he’s a first liner” argument. If Brady were on the Leafs he’d definitely be on their first line, and I’d bet he’d have more TOI than Nylander, just like Hyman did last year

 

[The90]

It’s an interesting argument but once again, this doesn’t give credit to one of Brady’s main strengths while glossing over one of Nylander’s main weaknesses. Ice time isn’t given in a vaccum outside of a player’s control.

Brady doesn’t lead the sens forwards in TOI because he’s the most skilled; Stutzle also plays LW and is far more skilled. Brady doesn’t lead them in TOI because he’s the best two way player; Brown is a far better two way player. He leads the team in TOI because his motor is always running hot and he brings consistent effort game-in, game-out. When the rest of the team doesn’t show up, Brady is still out there driving people through the boards and getting into cross check battles in front of the net and more often than not his leadership gets the guys going.

When Nylander is on he’s one of the best in the league. When he isn’t, he’s invisible and can go stretches of low production. Of course it helps Brady that he doesn’t have someone of Marner’s level playing above him, but at the same time, it’s not like Nylander is playing with a scrub, he’s almost exclusively played with John Tavares as his Center last year. A Center who is far better than any Center Brady has ever played with. Why isn’t his line earning more ice time? Why wouldn’t Keefe throw them out more and cut back on the 3rd and 4th line’s ice time? I’d argue part of that reason is inconsistency.

Like you suggested, building a team is about balance, and you can’t have just skill or just grit and gumption. Brady is one of the best options in the league at bringing grit and gumption to a top 6, and he earns his TOI. If Brady were on the Leafs I’d bet he’d still have more TOI than Nylander, just like Hyman did last year.

I understand what you’re saying, but Nylander also produced before any of the big boys showed up. 13 points in 22 games on a lottery team before any of Matthews JT or Marner arrived. If anything at this point Tavares benefits more from playing with Nylander than the other way around. It’s also accurate that Nylander has been getting second line minutes. And for much of the last 2 years where he’s produced at a ~65-70 point pace, he’s been on the second powerplay. How many more points does he get if he averages 2 more powerplay minutes a night?

Nylander has a much higher ceiling and his talent level is elite. Brady might contribute other things when he’s not producing, but he’s also not producing at Nylanders bottom end. Just a bit above where his Rookie year with The lottery team was. If I’m building a team, I’m taking Nylander first, but I understand someone who wants BT instead. That simply comes down to Nylander having an elite skill set, and BT not. IMO

 

[bert]

Nylander is the significantly better player right now. Tkachuk has the physical edge, but that's about it. Nylander is the far better goal scorer, skater, play maker.

And if you think he's already peaked then yeah LOL you're about to be surprised big time although I'm sure you watched him dominate Ottawa in back to back games. Nylander is having his breakout season this year, book it.

Tkachuk has a career high of 45 points so far. Nylander put up 61 points in each of his first 2 years, I like how you conveniently left out that he missed all of training camp and came into his third season in terrible shape due to contract negotiations but since you missed it, i'll mention it here.

Since 2016-17 he put up a 65 point pace, excluding the year he missed the entire training camp + a few months of the season due to contract hold out. He was a significantly better scorer compared to Tkachuk in his first 2 seasons, and is miles ahead of him right now offensively. I really like Brady but you realllly did everything to manipulate the narrative.

You just can't look at this objectively or struggle to understand the sport. The first sentence says it all.

No, more than half the teams in the league don't have a guy like him.

You calling Tkachuk a top line player is like the leafs calling Ritchie a #1LW, or Bozak a #1C. Just because he plays that role on your team doesn't mean he is that level of player. He's slightly above average offensively with a physical edge. Loads of potential, I would love the kid on Toronto, but you are really over rating him.

You're confusing him with the likes of Ovechkin/Iginla, true elite power forwards who could score. He's more of a Milan Lucic/Dustin Brown than OV.

It appears you're both a homer and unable to understand the sport. Quite the combination.

The irony of you bringing up Iginla here is too rich. Go look at his 20 and 21 year old seasons and compare them to Bradys...... Power forwards have longer development curves. Brady is ahead of Iggy at the same age. Tough look.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Nylander is a bit older, and thus far has a career high 61 pts, if Tkachuk can match 61 pts by the age of 25 which I think he will, with his physical edge and the intangibles he brings to the game. It's Tkachuk easily. All things equal, give me a power fwd with an edge in his game over a skilled fwd that is not as physical.

In addition to Nylander’s two 61 point seasons he also had a year where he paced for almost 40 goals and 75 points in a shortened season.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Nylander. He's looked amazing to start the year.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

You just can't look at this objectively or struggle to understand the sport. The first sentence says it all.



It appears you're both a homer and unable to understand the sport. Quite the combination.

The irony of you bringing up Iginla here is too rich. Go look at his 20 and 21 year old seasons and compare them to Bradys...... Power forwards have longer development curves. Brady is ahead of Iggy at the same age. Tough look.

you call him a homer yet seem to think Brady>Nylander

 

[bert]

you call him a homer yet seem to think Brady>Nylander

Well Tkachuk is a more unique player, hasnt had the benefit of playing with a star center and if you base it on historical evidence larger players, specifically power forwards have longer development curves. Dispite there being a much larger portion of leaf fans that post on HF Tkachuk while it being a small margin is still winning the poll. Based on that I do not believe I am a homer.

I do not share the same opinion that one player is currently vastly superior to the other, he is the one that suggested it. I bolded it for a reason. Then he compared Tkachuk to Nick Ritchie. Just an embarassing attempt to try and discredit Tkachuk which in turn back fired and hurt his own credibility.

 

[AvroArrow]

You just can't look at this objectively or struggle to understand the sport. The first sentence says it all.



It appears you're both a homer and unable to understand the sport. Quite the combination.

The irony of you bringing up Iginla here is too rich. Go look at his 20 and 21 year old seasons and compare them to Bradys...... Power forwards have longer development curves. Brady is ahead of Iggy at the same age. Tough look.

You're a top 5 leafs hater on these boards, didn't even read what you said because it's always a hardcore anti-leafs bias, cheers mate

 

[bigbabybuda]

Nylander, he's gonna be a ppg this year. Book it. Everything else has been said...