Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part VII
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Neil Patrick Harris
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Senscore
Let's keep it cold
- Nov 19, 2012
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Brady thread part 7 eh?
Gotta good feeling he'll sign within the next 1000 posts. Call it a hunch.
Gotta good feeling he'll sign within the next 1000 posts. Call it a hunch.
playasRus
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2009
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Gil Gunderson
Registered User
Dorion now confident this will get done before the end of the season.
robsenz
Registered User
- Apr 15, 2007
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DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Erik Alfredsson
Beast Mode Cowboy!
- Jan 14, 2012
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As much as I would love to see Tkachuk playing asap, I honestly don't care how long it takes, get the right contract done. Tkachuk's contract is a very important one, and it's huge that we don't overpay him.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
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For those that say he is only a 45 or 50 pt player, why don't you consider all the other things he does well, that few players do as being valuable as well & worth more money? I've said it a hundred times it's not just about the pts with this guy, but about the whole package of skills he brings to the team. He leads the whole damn NHL in a few categories at 20 & 21 yrs of age, isn't that worth something? Who else has done that, oh yea, hall of famers.
@Alex The Loyal
Anyway, it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about. The chance for uproar and real, sustainable change was a few years ago with Karlsson's departure, the bungling of the Lebreton development and new arena, and the departure of other high profile players. How did it work out with the first round of billboards? Melnyk out yet???
You have to live with the fact that you're powerless to affect change. Instead you'll come and spin your tired tales in here of resisting Melnyk and whatever else you think should make a difference (but doesn't) just to pat yourself on the back like you actually got something done. Spoiler alert: you haven't and you won't.
@Neil Patrick Harris
@dzingelalltheway
I'm sure you 3 will totally be happy though when Tkachuk signs his contract and won't immediately move on to fantasizing about worst case scenarios with the next major player extension.
There's a pervasive sickness on this board where you guys seem to relish in the worst happening so that you can pat each other on the back and say "see! I told you it would happen".
Just like you're always irritated by the people who are optimistic about things there are those of us who are always irritated by posters like you who can't ever seem to enjoy the positives - no matter how small they are.
I'm supposed to take you seriously when you compare the Sens to teams in the European Super League? The teams in that league are without question the most important teams in their league. I couldn't even begin to comprehend the point you're trying to make. If the Sens decided to split off with other teams of similar importance in the NHL the reaction would be similar to what the XFL got and how seriously people took them ie. who gives a f***?
Anyway, it's pretty clear you don't know what you're talking about. The chance for uproar and real, sustainable change was a few years ago with Karlsson's departure, the bungling of the Lebreton development and new arena, and the departure of other high profile players. How did it work out with the first round of billboards? Melnyk out yet???
You have to live with the fact that you're powerless to affect change. Instead you'll come and spin your tired tales in here of resisting Melnyk and whatever else you think should make a difference (but doesn't) just to pat yourself on the back like you actually got something done. Spoiler alert: you haven't and you won't.
@Neil Patrick Harris
So the only reason this forum exists for you is to come in and spend all your time endlessly complaining about everything? And then you wonder why people are really tired and irritated of reading "sky is falling" narratives in every f***ing thread?
@dzingelalltheway
Honestly, if this is how triggered you are by one contract negotiation - with a player whose camp openly admits to being as difficult as possible during said negotiations - being a little more delayed than you'd like then good riddance. We could do with a lot less of the sky is falling routine on this forum.
I'm sure you 3 will totally be happy though when Tkachuk signs his contract and won't immediately move on to fantasizing about worst case scenarios with the next major player extension.
There's a pervasive sickness on this board where you guys seem to relish in the worst happening so that you can pat each other on the back and say "see! I told you it would happen".
Just like you're always irritated by the people who are optimistic about things there are those of us who are always irritated by posters like you who can't ever seem to enjoy the positives - no matter how small they are.
YouGotAStuGoing
Registered User
Pretty rich of you to assume I'm triggered by contract negotiations when you're the one coming in all scorched earth and throwing your temper tantrum about people being unhappy. I'm doing just fine, pal. Football on the one screen and a bowl of pretzels on my right. My life ain't disturbed by this.
I can only speak for myself here, not the other two users you've tagged, but I think I've made my viewpoint pretty clear and explicit. Let me re-iterate it for you: if this contract gets done long-term, it's a sign to me that Eugene is putting his money where his mouth is and he's spending when the time is right. That'll be a clear sign that he's committed to this team. My "fantasizing about worst case scenarios" will be non-existent because we'll have our core locked up — as good, competitive teams do. Until then, it's hard to enjoy the positives in the small picture when the big picture speaks of the pattern repeating itself over and over.
So, that's where I'm at. I want to cheer for this team and I'll gladly sing its praises when said praises are deserved.
You make it sound like all categories are made equal. How are you measuring the impact he's having leading in those categories? Because he's obviously not leading the league in major categories like goals, assists, etc.
Sites like moneypuck don't seem to imply his value is as great as people here feel it is. Scores less goals than is expected, doesn't really score from above the circles, doesn't score on slapshots, ranked very high for defensive zone giveaways.
I really like Brady and think he's exactly the type of player we need on this team but it seems like the conversation is so polarized with no supporting facts to the conclusion his most ardent supporters want everyone else to believe. This guy is riding the wave of fan favoritism to an unrealistic level of expectation.
Would love to see you play out the categories he leads in and the full picture of what those accomplishments mean.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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Laff will produce more than Brady but I'm not sure I'd 100% do that trade. I'd very likely do it but I'm surprised that it wasn't a no brainer.
The guys blowing up the Brady threads with "the fact that this deal isn't done shows what a failure this team is and how they aren't committed to winning" are the ones telling other people they're having temper tantrums...f*** outta here.
I guarantee you after we sign Brady you and/or others will move on to fretting about Stutzle's contracts and Sanderson's and whoever else performs well. Your pessimism will never subside. Every moment will be a referendum in your eyes of this team's commitment. And then you guys will have the gall to come in and say "you're the ones bothered by this". Stop pretending it's not true - your post history suggests otherwise.
YouGotAStuGoing
Registered User
I think I know my own feelings better than you. Thanks.
SensFactor
Registered User
DylanSensFan
BEESHIP: NBH
ToastrStutzle
Registered User
I don't disagree with you but it's hard to objectively benchmark that for the purpose of contract negotiations. The reality of the situation is he has not ever been close to point a game and is asking for point a game type money. As a forward you are primarily judged on your ability to create offense and that translates directly into point totals.
I think the Sens are within their rights to not bend to 9M+ per year if that's the stumbling block. If, in fact, the stumbling block is actually bonus money and structure as opposed to the top end number then that's a different story, of course.
DylanSensFan
BEESHIP: NBH
You're joking right? Maybe you should have a look at my post history. I've always been generally positive. I am just sick and f***ing tired of having Melnyk as the owner of this team. We need new ownership in Ottawa. I'm not interested in a twice divorced, small man syndrome, almost billionaire calling the shots for contract negotiations.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
You realize this is sports right? Doesn’t really matter all that much?
The team has sucked for the last 5 years. You know what happens when teams suck? Fans talk about how much they suck, and criticize coaches, GMs and owners.
It’s no different with any other fan base in any other sport.
Go on a New York Jets message board. Think it’s positive? No, because the team is a trainwreck. We have also been a trainwreck. We are the Jets, or the Jaguars, or the Sacramento Kings of the NHL. When you look at it objectively, we have a poorly run team. It is what it is. Doesn’t mean it’ll always be like that. The Lightning used to have terrible ownership and a joke team. Look at them now. Hopefully that’ll be Ottawa one day.
But fans will be positive when the team wins. Maybe it’ll be next year, maybe it’ll be in 5 years. But until then, I’d suggest you stay off message boards, since it seems to be affecting you a little too much.
@L'Aveuglette @aragorn @Alex The Loyal
I couldn't grab quotes before the thread locked, but I'd like to respond to some of your comments that were directly or indirectly pointed at mine
L'Aveuglette:
I'm not sure what you want the team to do to prove they are willing to spend other than trading for some good players. I mean, if you're willing to part with Norris, Pinto, Greig, and/or Sanderson, I'm sure we could get to the ceiling. It's been three years since we signed Stone to that bridge deal that one year deal that walked him to UFA. Since then, we've been doing very well retaining AND adding talent (even if it's the wrong talent). You saw my post and saw some projected salaries, and you saw where that may land us in regards to the cap. Adding too much now means giving up young players and shrinking our competitive window in many cases.
If they've offered 8x8 to Brady on top of signing Chabot, White, Batherson, Dadonov, and Murray. All our other talent is on their LEAGUE MANDATED ELCs. When they're off those deals, we might be actually be losing players because we can't fit under the ceiling. I can't remember what your position on the Brady negotiation is in regards to long-term or short term, but I imagine you're looking for a short-term deal since it's the bar you've set for "proving they're willing to spend" not reasonable attainable.
"Greedy" isn't the right word to describe my feelings toward the Brady camp. It's more akin to how I look at a corporation taking advantage of tax loopholes to reduce the tax they are required to pay. They see an opportunity to extract more value and they're trying to go for it. That's not greed to me, that's effectively using the tools you've been given. If Brady gets more than the team was willing to give but they reluctantly do it anyway, that's on the team for giving it to him, not Brady or his camp for being tough negotiators and trying to get what they can. I want the team to exercise caution and find out how much they can concede in negotiations before it's not worth to give up anymore and dig in.
-------------------
I was writing the next two responses out and realized I was typing some things over and over again, so I'm just going to disclaimer this: We know very little about the negotiations, so more information coming out can drastically change my opinion. I'm working under the assumption that the team is okay with 8x8 straight salary, and Brady wants bonuses or completely different term and dollars.
Aragorn:
I don't think the consequences of him sitting out games because we're still negotiating with him are so dire. I'm not advocating trading him. I'm not at the negotiating table, so I don't know how far apart they are, but I'm against a trade unless things are so impossible to negotiate that there's just no way it's going to get done without giving Brady the three years, big money ticket to a quick UFA payday wherever he wants, or a big overpay. In regards to the "structure" of the contract - i.e. including bonuses, Brady's camp may be conceding their desired length of contract for an increased dollar amount at 8x8, what are they willing to concede to get bonuses? If we see bonuses, I expect the team to push very hard for a lower dollar amount. Both sides have to give in a negotiation. It's only fair.
Alex The Loyal:
The team HAS put on their big boy pants with 8x8 and signing the guys we have over the last few seasons. We've lost very little talent for money reasons since the teardown and we've collected a good group of young players. We've signed some bigger contracts and are projected to be a cap or near cap team just with what we have in the system. What else needs to happen for players to be convinced? Do we have to pay the "bad team tax" and give everyone more than they're worth to stay? Is that a good way to be a competitive team? This isn't specific to Brady, it's a general question about how the team should approach negotiating.
I'm personally fairly satisfied that the team is pushing back and not rolling over in negotiations. There's a limit to how much you can do that, but I don't think we've hit it yet. I'm not afraid of Brady sitting some real games and I don't think the team should be either. Take away that extra leverage and get a deal that everyone is happy with, will help us stay under the cap when everyone's' deals are up, and show the other players we're committed to keeping everyone and building a winner. It's not an easy ask or task. It's extremely important to the success of this core. It shouldn't be too surprising that it's hard negotiation that's taking so long for something so critical.
I couldn't grab quotes before the thread locked, but I'd like to respond to some of your comments that were directly or indirectly pointed at mine
L'Aveuglette:
I'm not sure what you want the team to do to prove they are willing to spend other than trading for some good players. I mean, if you're willing to part with Norris, Pinto, Greig, and/or Sanderson, I'm sure we could get to the ceiling. It's been three years since we signed Stone to that bridge deal that one year deal that walked him to UFA. Since then, we've been doing very well retaining AND adding talent (even if it's the wrong talent). You saw my post and saw some projected salaries, and you saw where that may land us in regards to the cap. Adding too much now means giving up young players and shrinking our competitive window in many cases.
If they've offered 8x8 to Brady on top of signing Chabot, White, Batherson, Dadonov, and Murray. All our other talent is on their LEAGUE MANDATED ELCs. When they're off those deals, we might be actually be losing players because we can't fit under the ceiling. I can't remember what your position on the Brady negotiation is in regards to long-term or short term, but I imagine you're looking for a short-term deal since it's the bar you've set for "proving they're willing to spend" not reasonable attainable.
"Greedy" isn't the right word to describe my feelings toward the Brady camp. It's more akin to how I look at a corporation taking advantage of tax loopholes to reduce the tax they are required to pay. They see an opportunity to extract more value and they're trying to go for it. That's not greed to me, that's effectively using the tools you've been given. If Brady gets more than the team was willing to give but they reluctantly do it anyway, that's on the team for giving it to him, not Brady or his camp for being tough negotiators and trying to get what they can. I want the team to exercise caution and find out how much they can concede in negotiations before it's not worth to give up anymore and dig in.
-------------------
I was writing the next two responses out and realized I was typing some things over and over again, so I'm just going to disclaimer this: We know very little about the negotiations, so more information coming out can drastically change my opinion. I'm working under the assumption that the team is okay with 8x8 straight salary, and Brady wants bonuses or completely different term and dollars.
Aragorn:
I don't think the consequences of him sitting out games because we're still negotiating with him are so dire. I'm not advocating trading him. I'm not at the negotiating table, so I don't know how far apart they are, but I'm against a trade unless things are so impossible to negotiate that there's just no way it's going to get done without giving Brady the three years, big money ticket to a quick UFA payday wherever he wants, or a big overpay. In regards to the "structure" of the contract - i.e. including bonuses, Brady's camp may be conceding their desired length of contract for an increased dollar amount at 8x8, what are they willing to concede to get bonuses? If we see bonuses, I expect the team to push very hard for a lower dollar amount. Both sides have to give in a negotiation. It's only fair.
Alex The Loyal:
The team HAS put on their big boy pants with 8x8 and signing the guys we have over the last few seasons. We've lost very little talent for money reasons since the teardown and we've collected a good group of young players. We've signed some bigger contracts and are projected to be a cap or near cap team just with what we have in the system. What else needs to happen for players to be convinced? Do we have to pay the "bad team tax" and give everyone more than they're worth to stay? Is that a good way to be a competitive team? This isn't specific to Brady, it's a general question about how the team should approach negotiating.
I'm personally fairly satisfied that the team is pushing back and not rolling over in negotiations. There's a limit to how much you can do that, but I don't think we've hit it yet. I'm not afraid of Brady sitting some real games and I don't think the team should be either. Take away that extra leverage and get a deal that everyone is happy with, will help us stay under the cap when everyone's' deals are up, and show the other players we're committed to keeping everyone and building a winner. It's not an easy ask or task. It's extremely important to the success of this core. It shouldn't be too surprising that it's hard negotiation that's taking so long for something so critical.
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