Brad Park/Denis Potvin

[Hardyvan123]

Oops missed that one. It's tough to see how anyone could keep Park out of the top 15.

Somewhere in the top 20 might not be 20th, I'll do a list sometime but Potvin is in the top 5 for me along with Bourque, Orr, Harvey, Lidstrom and then Shore/Kelly/Robinson depending on the day off the top of my head.

To be fair though it's pretty hard to compare guys I have never seen like Shore and Harvey to guys I have seen since the early 70's.

Park did play in a watered down NHL and that hurts him a bit in my own personal view and I really can't see any way that he can be compared on the same level of Potvin. That gives Potvin no respect IMO.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Doug Harvey

I think Denis Potvin was one of the best ever at the transition game. Best blueline-to-blueline passer in the game's history...

Doug Harvey would be the best be it transition game or blueline to blueline passer.Major difference was that Harvey would do it with third line players, rookies and subs just as readily as he would with the first liners.

The three Bruin defensemen are hard to read in this regard. Bobby Orr, Brad Park and Ray Bourque all played at least half their home games on the smaller Boston Garden Ice surface with a smaller neutral zone between the bluelines. This made the transition game more difficult since there was less room.All three showed that they were excellent during away games, while Park showed his skills originally at Madison Square Gardens with the Rangers.

 

[streitz]

Potvin was better but Park was very good. Easily the best defenceman to never win a Norris(at least during that 70's-80's era).

 

[Neutrinos]

Would Park vs Leetch make for a more interesting discussion?

 

[Big Phil]

Did Park ever finish ahead of Potvin for the Norris when Potvin was healthy?

No, not really. In Potvin's rookie season in 1974 Park finished 2nd in Norris voting and somehow Potvin didn't get a single vote. I also can't understand how Potvin didn't get a single vote in 1983 either. He had 66 points in 69 games. Park had one vote if that counts. Between that and the 1981 Norris vote I think Potvin got hosed more often than people think for Norris voting. I can't imagine the voters giving him those extra likeable votes that they give to some because Potvin was a little rough around the edges (honest, really) with the media. Pronger got some of that same flack I thought.

So yeah, a healthy Potvin always outdid Park.

 

[Big Phil]

Would Park vs Leetch make for a more interesting discussion?

I think Park wins this in a landslide. Leetch has that rare distinction of not being elite in his 30s the way he was in his 20s. Most defensemen peak around 30,31 years old and stay at a high level in their 30s. Or should I say most all-time greats. Where Leetch falls off a bit from a top 20 defenseman discussion is that he declined a lot after 30.

 

[wetcoast]

Not to take anything from Brad Park, but Potvin by quite a margin in my view. For the reasons mentioned above as well as the fact that he played mean, very mean, and opps hated playing against him. I think Potvin was vastly underrated as a player and in his contribution to the success of the Islanders team of that era.

I am too young to have seen Shore play (who some have rated as 2nd best dman behind Orr) but I have Potvin as a solid #2 dman of all time, and probably in the top 10 or 15 all time (including all positions). He was that good.

Agree with most of this, although I don't have Potvin 2nd of all time, although I can see an argument that he is close.

 

[The Panther]

Unfortunately I did not see Brad Park play. My first awareness of him was when he was a commentator for the '87 Canada Cup broadcasts on CTV.

I think I saw Potvin play a couple of times, but certainly past his prime.

I got nothin'.

 

[BM67]

Don't forget Brad Park had bad knees and many surgeries. I know one season he had 40 points in 40 games and never played another. If only he had a full career his stats would be greater than Potvin's. Both were excellent Dmen and I believe Potvin's healthy career makes him a little better. Park always seemed to have no luck with awards. The year Montreal beat out the Bruins in the finals Park tied Bobby Orr's record of 9 goals in the playoffs for a Dman. Larry Robinson won the Cohn Smythe Trophy (NHL Playoff MVP) because Montreal won the cup. Parky clearly would have won the award if the Bruins could have won the Stanley Cup. He diffenitly was one of the best stickhandlers and playmakers of all time.

Not much chance of that. Park's single season bests are 25 goals, 57 assists and 82 points. Potvin averaged higher than that in his first 6 seasons. On a per game basis, Park only reached Potvin's career average in goals in 3 seasons, assists in 6 seasons, and points in 4 seasons.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

Larry Robinson?????

 

[Vanzig]

Ok we know DENIS POTVIN was a mean son of a gun, when he was younger had a chip/jerk/ a BARRASSO type guy but as he got older he mellowed.
He was 1 of the best Hip Checkers and is def in the TOP 3 DEFENCEMAN of the 1970’s. 3 Norris Trophies, He Tied ORR in the 1976 Canada Cup in Points.

In my opinion it be this in 1970s Best Defenceman
(1) BOBBY ORR
(2) DENIS POTVIN
(3) BRAD PARK
(4) LARRY ROBINOSN
(5) ??? Debatable

 

[DannyGallivan]

I don't anyone here would argue with me if I stated Bobby Orr was the best defenseman in the 1970's. (I believe he is best ever in any era- period.) But just wondering how Brad Park and Denis Potvin would compare? In my mind both were very good offensively - maybe a slight edge to Potvin here although I don't think anyone passed better than Park. Both were physical players although I think Potvin had more of a pure "mean streak" than did Park. While both were strong defensively I would lean more towards Park in this area.

Overall if I could select either of them in their prime I'd lean towards Brad Park. Any comments or thoughts?

Craig

I actually compared them style-wise in a different thread. Potvin was the better player.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Without Orr



Brad Park did not start playing hockey as a defenseman. A goalie then a forward:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/spot_oneononep198804.htm

Without Orr, Park remains a forward perhaps never playing in the NHL.

Once Bobby Orr emerged as a Bantam phenom, there was a trend in youth hockey to move forwards, mainly centers to defense - Brad Park, Carol Vadnais being two examples of such players who made the NHL.

So without Orr chances are that the number of Norris Trophies that Brad Park might have won would not change and he would have fewer 2nd place finishes or other defensive honours and considerations.

Your link doesn't work after all this time. Are you aware of any opinions on how good Park might have been as a forward?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Your link doesn't work after all this time. Are you aware of any opinions on how good Park might have been as a forward?

No - rather common mid sixties to shift strong skating forwards to defence while ignoring the might have been.

Carol Vadnais being a prime example.

 

[SealsFan]

As much as I hated Potvin and crew, I have to give him the edge. Park was a darn good defenseman though.

 

[MyDogSparty]

Potvin had a deadly wrist shot from the point. One of the best I’ve ever seen.

 

[Bluesguru]

Statistics say Potvin gets the edge, so you can't really argue but Brad Park was darn good.

 

[Killion]

Hate to choose but..... I'd absolutely go with Potvin on this one. In fact, for me, what I like, want in a Defenceman, for me, no brainer. Potvin just brought that much more to the party.... on the other hand.......................................................................................... you have 5 fingers.

 

[BobbyAwe]

As much as I hated Potvin and crew, I have to give him the edge. Park was a darn good defenseman though.

I hated them too. Although I lived only one mile from the Coliseum, I was already a Bruin's fan when the Isle's started up. Didn't HATE them till the dynasty though - that was just BRUTAL!

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

I hated them too. Although I lived only one mile from the Coliseum, I was already a Bruin's fan when the Isle's started up. Didn't HATE them till the dynasty though - that was just BRUTAL!

What an amazing team that was. Denis does not get enough credit for his role.

 

[BobbyAwe]

D

Brad Park and Denis Potvin where both good defenseman but Potvin was so much better than Park, a lot of that has to do with winning Cups and Potvin being good from the start of his career.

Definitely Potvin having 4 cups to Park's NONE weighs as a big factor in most people's minds but it shouldn't be.

If Park were the same age as Potvin and placed on that Islander's team INSTEAD of Potvin, do you think he would have cost them any of those cups? I don't. Correspondingly, if Potvin were on the Rangers or Bruins instead of Park do you think either of those teams would have been a dynasty? Nope. Potvin may have been better but not by that much.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Don't forget Brad Park had bad knees and many surgeries. I know one season he had 40 points in 40 games and never played another. If only he had a full career his stats would be greater than Potvin's. Both were excellent Dmen and I believe Potvin's healthy career makes him a little better. Park always seemed to have no luck with awards. The year Montreal beat out the Bruins in the finals Park tied Bobby Orr's record of 9 goals in the playoffs for a Dman. Larry Robinson won the Cohn Smythe Trophy (NHL Playoff MVP) because Montreal won the cup. Parky clearly would have won the award if the Bruins could have won the Stanley Cup. He diffenitly was one of the best stickhandlers and playmakers of all time.

Yes, his knees were a factor but most people don't take things like that into account. Like you, I think we have to.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Somewhere in the top 20 might not be 20th, I'll do a list sometime but Potvin is in the top 5 for me along with Bourque, Orr, Harvey, Lidstrom and then Shore/Kelly/Robinson depending on the day off the top of my head.

To be fair though it's pretty hard to compare guys I have never seen like Shore and Harvey to guys I have seen since the early 70's.

Park did play in a watered down NHL and that hurts him a bit in my own personal view and I really can't see any way that he can be compared on the same level of Potvin. That gives Potvin no respect IMO.

Funny though that Orr also played in a watered down league but no one ever takes that into account?

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't anyone here would argue with me if I stated Bobby Orr was the best defenseman in the 1970's. (I believe he is best ever in any era- period.) But just wondering how Brad Park and Denis Potvin would compare? In my mind both were very good offensively - maybe a slight edge to Potvin here although I don't think anyone passed better than Park. Both were physical players although I think Potvin had more of a pure "mean streak" than did Park. While both were strong defensively I would lean more towards Park in this area.

Overall if I could select either of them in their prime I'd lean towards Brad Park. Any comments or thoughts?

Craig

I would take Potvin over Park and I think he was better defensively by a decent margin, surprised to see you give Park the edge in that regard because I feel like its the one thing where you compare these guys and they are not particularly close.

 

[wetcoast]

Funny though that Orr also played in a watered down league but no one ever takes that into account?

Yes he did but he drove the play so much in ESGF/ESGA in his years in Boston and even during his short time with the Hawks.

The numbers really back up the eye test with Orr.