Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - D [2019: 4th Overall] Part II: Now serving a side of overconfidence!

[Ararana]

#1 at spins, that's for damn sure

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Oyoyoy ok, Pierce, I'm sorry, I was wrong. This excercise has clearly proved without a doubt that G is top 30 D.

Like I said man. Go do a little research. I can't help you if you won't help yourself.


The fact you listed Ristolainen is just so, so, so bad man. He's not even a replacement level Defender.

 

[FreshFitted67]

Like I said man. Go do a little research. I can't help you if you won't help yourself.


The fact you listed Ristolainen is just so, so, so bad man. He's not even a replacement level Defender.

Oh pierce, remove Ristolainen and you've still got 49 names bud

 

[PAZ]

Alright, try this little exercise and see how it goes.


List 50 Dmen in the league right now you think is better than Girard.

After making a list, definitely top 50 and can see an argument for top 30, but I can also see how others will view him closer to 40-50.

Clearly better (25):

Carlson
Josi
Hedman
Hughes
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Suter
Theodore
Werenski
Hamilton

Chabot
Weber
Ellis
Provorov
Slavin
Pulock
Heiskanen
Doughty
Klingberg
McAvoy

Jones
Parayko
Rielly
Lindholm
Makar

Players I think are better, but argument for Girard (5):

Sergachev
Ekholm
Letang
Krug
Ekblad

Arguable Players (15):

Lindell
Keith
Brodin
Pesces
Trouba
Orlov
Giordano
Morrissey
OEL
Schmidt

Niskanen
Barrie
Klefbom
Petry
McDonagh
Burns

Not better but homers will say they are and potential to be:

Fox
Dahlin
Gavrikov (ok not really, but I like him)
Byram

 

[FreshFitted67]

After making a list, definitely top 50 and can see an argument for top 30, but I can also see how others will view him closer to 40-50.

Clearly better (25):

Carlson
Josi
Hedman
Hughes
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Suter
Theodore
Werenski
Hamilton

Chabot
Weber
Ellis
Provorov
Slavin
Pulock
Heiskanen
Doughty
Klingberg
McAvoy

Jones
Parayko
Rielly
Lindholm
Makar

Players I think are better, but argument for Girard (5):

Sergachev
Ekholm
Letang
Krug
Ekblad

Arguable Players (15):

Lindell
Keith
Brodin
Pesces
Trouba
Orlov
Giordano
Morrissey
OEL
Schmidt

Niskanen
Barrie
Klefbom
Petry
McDonagh
Burns

Not better but homers will say they are and potential to be:

Fox
Dahlin
Gavrikov (ok not really, but I like him)
Byram

I got attacked pretty hard for my list, so I have to throw one obligatory criticism at yours Gio won the Norris not this past season but the one before, are there really people arguing Girard is better than Giordano?

But good work putting the list together and I like the Byram addition lol

 

[henchman21]

Girard and Spurgeon are basically the same player, except Spurgeon has a shot. If Girard is a #1D to people, Spurgeon better be one too. If you believe both are, then we just disagree on the definition of a #1D and there isn't middle ground between those groups as we have seen in many debates. Leave it as a fundamental difference and move on.

 

[AvsFan29]

The WHL just announced that their season starts Jan 7.

it the NHL doesn’t start until February, can Bryan go play in the WHL for a couple weeks before joining training camp?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

After making a list, definitely top 50 and can see an argument for top 30, but I can also see how others will view him closer to 40-50.

Clearly better (25):

Carlson
Josi
Hedman
Hughes
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Suter
Theodore
Werenski
Hamilton

Chabot
Weber
Ellis
Provorov
Slavin
Pulock
Heiskanen
Doughty
Klingberg
McAvoy

Jones
Parayko
Rielly
Lindholm
Makar

Players I think are better, but argument for Girard (5):

Sergachev
Ekholm
Letang
Krug
Ekblad

Arguable Players (15):

Lindell
Keith
Brodin
Pesces
Trouba
Orlov
Giordano
Morrissey
OEL
Schmidt

Niskanen
Barrie
Klefbom
Petry
McDonagh
Burns

Not better but homers will say they are and potential to be:

Fox
Dahlin
Gavrikov (ok not really, but I like him)
Byram

This is certainly a better list then the last one

I really don't see an argument for any of the arguable ones though tbh.


Gio has declined quite a bit the last year. OEL isn't very good anymore. Niskanen is retired .

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Girard and Spurgeon are basically the same player, except Spurgeon has a shot. If Girard is a #1D to people, Spurgeon better be one too. If you believe both are, then we just disagree on the definition of a #1D and there isn't middle ground between those groups as we have seen in many debates. Leave it as a fundamental difference and move on.

The debate now is about whether Girard is a Top 30 guy more so then whether he's a #1 or #2


I think he's a #2 as well but I also think he is a Top 30 D in the league.

 

[Richard88]

#1 at spins, that's for damn sure

Enough said.

Can we go back to talking about Byram now (in this Byram thread)?

 

[Foppa2118]

Girard was the Avs #1 last season. Makar will be the Avs #1 from here on out. G might even slip to #3 if Byram develops as expected. He'll be an elite #3 though.

 

[FreshFitted67]

This is certainly a better list then the last one

I really don't see an argument for any of the arguable ones though tbh.


Gio has declined quite a bit the last couple years. OEL isn't very good anymore. Niskanen is retired .

There has literally been 1 season played since Giordano won the Norris trophy for Best Defenseman in the league

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

 

[Ararana]

I’ve re-watched round one of the 2019 draft more times than I care to admit. Still can’t believe the NHL let Byram and Newhook fall into our laps.

 

[Spirits]

Can we get a list of people that want to trade Byram before we even know what he is for a 3c so we can ridicule them later?

 

[Foppa2118]

Has there been any word about Byram's options next year if he doesn't make the Avs, and the WHL doesn't have a season, considering the WHL wouldn't let him play in Europe?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Can we get a list of people that want to trade Byram before we even know what he is for a 3c so we can ridicule them later?

That depends. When Cirelli wins a Selke before Byram is even off his ELC can we laugh at the ones who didn't think he was that good?


Cause I'll gladly sign up for that list.

 

[Foppa2118]

Nobody said Cirelli wasn't good. They said it didn't make sense to trade the consensus top defensive prospect in hockey for a 3C.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nobody said Cirelli wasn't good. They said it didn't make sense to trade the consensus top defensive prospect in hockey for a 3C.

Tbf it'd be for a 2C as he'd knock Kadri down to 3C. But I'm also not advocating it'd be smart to trade Byram yet.

 

[Foppa2118]

Tbf it'd be for a 2C as he'd knock Kadri down to 3C. But I'm also not advocating it'd be smart to trade Byram yet.

It's possible it could play out like that, but it's more likely it won't. They brought in Kadri specifically to give him more opportunity as a 2C instead of the 3C he was in Toronto.

Kadri also has career highs of two 32 goal seasons and 61 and 55 points. Last season he was on pace for 31 goals and 58 points.

Before last season Cirelli had career highs of 19 goals and 39 points. Last season he was on pace for 19 goals and 53 points.

So even in Cirelli's contract year, Kadri was still better.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's possible it could play out like that, but it's more likely it won't. They brought in Kadri specifically to give him more opportunity as a 2C instead of the 3C he was in Toronto.

Kadri also has career highs of two 32 goal seasons and 61 and 55 points. Last season he was on pace for 31 goals and 58 points.

Before last season Cirelli had career highs of 19 and 14 goals, and 39 and 37 points. Last season he was on pace for 19 goals and 53 points.

So even in Cirelli's contract year, Kadri was still better.

I mean offensively Kadri has him currently, but as has been pointed out before Cirelli is more of an ROR type, so with his 50 points you're getting elite level defense. I mean it's splitting hairs though because Cirelli is obviously not coming here.

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean offensively Kadri has him currently, but as has been pointed out before Cirelli is more of an ROR type, so with his 50 points you're getting elite level defense. I mean it's splitting hairs though because Cirelli is obviously not coming here.

Yeah but lets not forget Kadri is a pretty high end defensive center himself. A lot of his reputation is based on shutting down top opponents all by himself.

Also, offensive production is usually what determines whether a coach puts a player in the 2C or 3C role.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If Cirelli is truly seen that way then he’d get offersheeted.

It’s crazy what playing a guy as a first year pro can do.

 

[henchman21]

That depends. When Cirelli wins a Selke before Byram is even off his ELC can we laugh at the ones who didn't think he was that good?


Cause I'll gladly sign up for that list.

Seriously... people need to watch Cirellli. He’s elite defensively and very solid at ES. With decent PP time... he’s a 60 point player now. Maybe 65-70. He’s ROR that can skate and will lay a hit. You’d think people here would appreciate that.

He’s not offersheeted because they are rare (will be more so in a flat cap world) and Tampa takes care of their own. They always do, so players fall in line. Point could be getting almost 4m more a season if he wanted to play in Montreal. Took less to stay in Tampa and stick with that organization, who will take care of him when his bridge is up.

 

[Spirits]

That depends. When Cirelli wins a Selke before Byram is even off his ELC can we laugh at the ones who didn't think he was that good?


Cause I'll gladly sign up for that list.

Yeah and if Byram hits his ceiling we will all be laughing. This has nothing to do with how good Cirelli is and everything to do with not getting a Byram level player unless you draft them.

Would love to see the look on Sakic’s face if you were to ask him about this trade.