News Article: Botchford died of overdose of cocaine and fentanyl

[Catamarca Livin]

Interesting conversation. Not saying Jason was an addict as many die who are not. There are those who got addicted to opioids through prescriptions. However many others got addicted through bad life choices. While it is true addiction is a disease. If your life choices lead to your addiction or your non addicted overdose then it still fits into personal responsibility. It cannot happen to anyone because many choose not to use these drugs ever. You can still be empathetic and want these people to get all the help or services they need while recognizing these people messed up in a way that is easily avoidable.
Jason was from all accounts an awesome person we are all flawed and struggling in our own way. Which makes taking responsibility for our choices even more important. This was a tradegy but it could not happen to anyone.

 

[GetFocht]

Condolences to his family, but this is all on Botch. He probably shouldn't have been overdosing on drugs with young kids to support.

 

[ArtursSilovsShirt]

Condolences to his family, but this is all on Botch. He probably shouldn't have been overdosing on drugs with young kids to support.

You're right, how dare he go out and intentionally overdose! What a shithead.

Give your head a shake man...

 

[RussianRacket]

not up to us to judge his, or any drug user or addict's, situation. Leave it at that.

 

[Kearns]

Good question.

Drugs, the further you get away from where they are produced (central America) is diluted to maximize profit by being "cut" with fillers. Like, coke with the cheaper speed/meth. Sometimes even as bad as laundry detergent.

Because of the potency of Fentanyl. A TINY bit cut into virtually anything can make for a substitute for what the person wants. And is much cheaper because of that. And with every person a drug goes through, from central america, to Vancouver, it can be cut by another group looking to maximize their return.

I cannot for the life of me, understand why there hasn't been an all-out war on dealers of coke/fentanyl in Vancouver. I don't do any hard drugs and it would take me about 3 to 6 hours to orchestrate a meeting with a coke dealer. Our police are terrible. They sit around and wait for calls then usually say they can't do shit about it.

The last paragraph above gets me. Murder and attempted murder charges for dealers in possession of Fentanyl laced hard drugs? I don't have the answers. It really bothers me that the Fentanyl is more often than not coming in from outside the borders.

 

[rypper]

Condolences to his family, but this is all on Botch. He probably shouldn't have been overdosing on drugs with young kids to support.

Derp.

 

[m9]

Condolences to his family, but this is all on Botch. He probably shouldn't have been overdosing on drugs with young kids to support.

I think this is worded extremely poorly and I see you have been ripped accordingly by others.

But your underlying sentiment is something I understand. He had a young family and put himself at a very high risk by engaging in this behavior. Further to that, unlike many people that fall victim to this he had a regular income and likely had the means to get help if he wanted. Maybe he had tried, I don't know. Maybe he was a rec user and things went bad.

Not trying to come off as insensitive at all, it's an awful situation for the family.

 

[Zippgunn]

God bless his family for this revelation. My wife works in this field and one of the biggest problems that exists in fighting the fentanyl problem is overcoming stigma. This just in, almost everybody does drugs of some sort some of the time. Whether it's booze, nicotine, coffee, blow, weed or whatever nobody should die from making one bad decision but that's what's happening more and more in B.C. Lots of "weekend warriors" going down hard not just addicts.

 

[elwin316]

Feel for the family even more now, not sure if there was supposed to be a life insurance claim, but if there was I'm assuming they're not getting any sort of payout now. The GoFundMe site looks like they raised ~ $125K though.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Both hard-line positions on addiction are false. Addiction isn't strictly an illness like any other that's contracted by chance and the fact that saying otherwise gets you branded a bigot is absurd. It also isn't solely either the addict's fault or a matter of personal responsibility. It's way, way more complicated than either of these explanations admit.

 

[GetFocht]

You're right, how dare he go out and intentionally overdose! What a shithead.

Give your head a shake man...

Doesn't matter, he put himself in that position to begin with.

 

[ziploc]

Both hard-line positions on addiction are false. Addiction isn't strictly an illness like any other that's contracted by chance and the fact that saying otherwise gets you branded a bigot is absurd. It also isn't solely either the addict's fault or a matter of personal responsibility. It's way, way more complicated than either of these explanations admit.

Addiction is largely a response to pain. Gabor Mate describes it as a “stupid friend” one that actually helps you in the beginning but becomes a major problem on top of whatever other problems you were trying to get relief from. Heroin, I am reliably informed, feels like a warm hug. For those who have never received a hug, imagine how strong that attachment would be? Crystal meth has been shown to give periods of calm to those really suffering with ADHD. Both drugs have disastrous consequences, but it is not simply a matter of choice. It becomes a need. That said, we do have the capacity to make choices, and we should be doing everything we can to allow people the opportunities to make good ones. Sadly our culture is not particularly well suited for that, though we are perhaps gaining some understanding.

 

[StreetHawk]

Feel for the family even more now, not sure if there was supposed to be a life insurance claim, but if there was I'm assuming they're not getting any sort of payout now. The GoFundMe site looks like they raised ~ $125K though.

If the insurance policy has an out for the provider given this official cause of death then I would expect the provider not to pay.

So that Is another shot to the family.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

The last paragraph above gets me. Murder and attempted murder charges for dealers in possession of Fentanyl laced hard drugs? I don't have the answers. It really bothers me that the Fentanyl is more often than not coming in from outside the borders.

Yes. Exactly.

Even negligence causing death ?

I swear these cops are so removed from the scene, they don't realize how easily and popular these drugs are. Out of touch. No idea. I could bust 12 dealers by Sunday with little effort.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Addiction is largely a response to pain. Gabor Mate describes it as a “stupid friend” one that actually helps you in the beginning but becomes a major problem on top of whatever other problems you were trying to get relief from. Heroin, I am reliably informed, feels like a warm hug. For those who have never received a hug, imagine how strong that attachment would be? Crystal meth has been shown to give periods of calm to those really suffering with ADHD. Both drugs have disastrous consequences, but it is not simply a matter of choice. It becomes a need. That said, we do have the capacity to make choices, and we should be doing everything we can to allow people the opportunities to make good ones. Sadly our culture is not particularly well suited for that, though we are perhaps gaining some understanding.

I've been lucky enough to see Dr Mate speak and know his daughter, Hannah. How he illustrates it, as you have, needs to become common knowledge.

 

[Dump Itch]

Why is everyone assuming this guy was addicted to drugs? Not everyone that does cocaine/fentanyl is addicted to it lmao

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Yes. Exactly.

Even negligence causing death ?

I swear these cops are so removed from the scene, they don't realize how easily and popular these drugs are. Out of touch. No idea. I could bust 12 dealers by Sunday with little effort.

I don’t think it’s a matter of law enforcement as a lack of prosecution, the police can arrest somebody but they then have to go through a law process and all these misdemeanour charges or left under 5000 and possession don’t have any effect on street people, the cost of prosecution is heavy compared to the impact it has on the streets

 

[member 328930]

Doesn't matter, he put himself in that position to begin with.

Addiction. Makes people do things they don’t want to and know to be wrong.

 

[member 328930]

If the insurance policy has an out for the provider given this official cause of death then I would expect the provider not to pay.

So that Is another shot to the family.

Im pretty sure that is treated the same way as suicide...as long as the policy is more than two years old it should pay ...if there is one.

 

[Bam19]

Good question.

Drugs, the further you get away from where they are produced (central America) is diluted to maximize profit by being "cut" with fillers. Like, coke with the cheaper speed/meth. Sometimes even as bad as laundry detergent.

Because of the potency of Fentanyl. A TINY bit cut into virtually anything can make for a substitute for what the person wants. And is much cheaper because of that. And with every person a drug goes through, from central america, to Vancouver, it can be cut by another group looking to maximize their return.

I cannot for the life of me, understand why there hasn't been an all-out war on dealers of coke/fentanyl in Vancouver. I don't do any hard drugs and it would take me about 3 to 6 hours to orchestrate a meeting with a coke dealer. Our police are terrible. They sit around and wait for calls then usually say they can't do shit about it.

Fun Fact the war on drugs has be going on since the mid 80s and it’s accomplished precisely nothing. All it does is marginally reduce supply creating even shittier/more dangerous drugs.

the focus should be on harm reduction.

Although this would never happen I firmly believe the government should supply all drugs. Under cut the dealers. Enforce extremely stiff penalties on dealers, no penalty for personal use. at every by point have an addiction specialist. Have an option for in patient rehab (not on location but you can sign up and go), have a safe injection site.

This accomplished many things. Takes money away from criminals. Creates a safe drug supply. Keeps drugs away from minors. Provides help for those looking for it. Doesn’t allow people to buy drugs with stolen goods (they would have to pawn them) Any profit made must be put back into harm reduction Or border enforcement. Lowers Policing costs.

 

[m9]

Why is everyone assuming this guy was addicted to drugs? Not everyone that does cocaine/fentanyl is addicted to it lmao

For sure. I don't know his situation, but it's a bad conclusion someone would jump to.

 

[absolute garbage]

Interesting conversation. Not saying Jason was an addict as many die who are not. There are those who got addicted to opioids through prescriptions. However many others got addicted through bad life choices. While it is true addiction is a disease. If your life choices lead to your addiction or your non addicted overdose then it still fits into personal responsibility. It cannot happen to anyone because many choose not to use these drugs ever. You can still be empathetic and want these people to get all the help or services they need while recognizing these people messed up in a way that is easily avoidable.
Jason was from all accounts an awesome person we are all flawed and struggling in our own way. Which makes taking responsibility for our choices even more important. This was a tradegy but it could not happen to anyone.

Is it your 'bad life choice' to be born into systemic poverty and disenfranchisement where the people kids look up to are broken people themselves? Is it your bad life choice to grow up in a toxic family where your dad beats your mom and you every weekend? Is it your bad life choice to get sexually abused as a little kid by your alcoholic dad's alcoholic friend? Is it your bad life choice to feel inferior as a kid every day compared to your peers? How much 'personal responsibility' does the victims of those circumstances that broke them really bear? Although I'm not absolving anyone of the responsibility of their actions here, it's still very safe and stable middle class thinking to expect a healthy and balanced adult to grow up from those situations. It's a massive uphill battle and very few are able to make it out of that pit of despair.

Now I'm not saying Botch had to experience any of that, I'm talking about what more often than not leads to things like drug use, addiction and crime. I think with Botch it was probably (speculating) more about addictive personality and the relation of that to the conditions of his life/job. He was working and churning out content 24/7, people can't do that naturally. Is the Athletic salary structure different than traditional journalism?

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Condolences to his family, but this is all on Botch. He probably shouldn't have been overdosing on drugs with young kids to support.

If only addiction were that simple.

Please tell me you're the sort of person who also calls suicide selfish.

 

[iceburg]

Interesting conversation. Not saying Jason was an addict as many die who are not. There are those who got addicted to opioids through prescriptions. However many others got addicted through bad life choices. While it is true addiction is a disease. If your life choices lead to your addiction or your non addicted overdose then it still fits into personal responsibility. It cannot happen to anyone because many choose not to use these drugs ever. You can still be empathetic and want these people to get all the help or services they need while recognizing these people messed up in a way that is easily avoidable.
Jason was from all accounts an awesome person we are all flawed and struggling in our own way. Which makes taking responsibility for our choices even more important. This was a tradegy but it could not happen to anyone.

Eating cheeseburgers is a choice. Drinking 2L of pop a day is a choice. Such choices can lead to cardiovascular disease and type II diabetes....and food addiction is real.
We all make poor choices for our health. But the underlying social/psychological drivers for these choices are incredibly complex. I'm afraid that characterizing it as "easily avoidable" is a gross over simplification and promotes a "not my problem" culture that hinders the search for solutions.

 

[Cogburn]

If there was an underlying mental illness, or addiction, I can't just give a pass if he wasn't working on his condition, assuming it was a driving factor (all we have are facts that he used cocaine laced with fentanyl). At the same time, I can't fault him, I used to self medicate almost every night. There isn't an easy or satisfying answer. Whether it was a casual habit, an every day addiction, or he got peer pressured into trying for the first time, there were choices, actions and in-actions that lead every one to where they are. Don't deify or demonize Botch for how he died, and don't ignore it either. The guy was a fixture of Canucks media for years, will be missed, and I'm not going to let the circumstances of his death overshadow his life.