Speculation: Botchford: 4 teams interested in Brandon Sutter

Nucker42

Registered User
Nov 27, 2011
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The contract is GOOD?!

WTF!?

Paying a Jobber main event money isn't good
4ish million isn’t bad for a shutdown Center these days.

Problem is, Suttter was never meant to be a main guy. In Pittsburgh, he was a shutdown down with zero expectation to score and he thrived.

Sutter could be solid if he goes to a really deep team.
 

THE Green Man

Registered User
Dec 27, 2013
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Horvat isn’t ready to play the shutdown role he was projected to?
As mentioned earlier, we need him to play with Boeser- that means he's needed for offensive zone starts. Bo is plenty capable of being that 200ft player we drafted him to be, however with the current makeup of the roster he is going to be doing less of that role than ever before. Years past the Sedins almost had to start in the offensive zones, and now that they are gone, Bo will take on a lot more of those draws that were previously designated to them. Once we have a legit 1C option (Hughes next year hopefully) Bo will be back to playing the 2C like we had Kesler doing for years.
Fair enough, we can agree on some and disagree a bit here. I wouldn't trade him for all 3 of their 3rd round picks (without a replacement in hand)- Never mind for one, regardless of how early. It just doesn't help us right now or in the future, in my view.
Come on that's ridiculous- if someone offers 3 3rd round picks for Sutter you take that no matter what. You can always sign stop gap defensive centers in free agency to cover for Sutter in the short term. As much as Sutter's contract is inflated, he provides a tremendous importance in development of the prospects offensive games, but if anyone is willing to severely overpay for him you have to make the deal.
 
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Nucker42

Registered User
Nov 27, 2011
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As mentioned earlier, we need him to play with Boeser- that means he's needed for offensive zone starts. Bo is plenty capable of being that 200ft player we drafted him to be, however with the current makeup of the roster he is going to be doing less of that role than ever before. Years past the Sedins almost had to start in the offensive zones, and now that they are gone, Bo will take on a lot more of those draws that were previously designated to them. Once we have a legit 1C option (Hughes next year hopefully) Bo will be back to playing the 2C like we had Kesler doing for years.

Come on that's ridiculous- if someone offers 3 3rd round picks for Sutter you take that no matter what. You can always sign stop gap defensive centers in free agency to cover for Sutter in the short term. As much as Sutter's contract is inflated, he provides a tremendous importance in development of the prospects offensive games, but if anyone is willing to severely overpay for him you have to make the deal.
100% agree.

If the Canucks were offered 3 x 3rd rounders i take it.

If he Canucks were offered a 2nd? I take it.
 

bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
1,909
970
As mentioned earlier, we need him to play with Boeser- that means he's needed for offensive zone starts. Bo is plenty capable of being that 200ft player we drafted him to be, however with the current makeup of the roster he is going to be doing less of that role than ever before. Years past the Sedins almost had to start in the offensive zones, and now that they are gone, Bo will take on a lot more of those draws that were previously designated to them. Once we have a legit 1C option (Hughes next year hopefully) Bo will be back to playing the 2C like we had Kesler doing for years.

Come on that's ridiculous- if someone offers 3 3rd round picks for Sutter you take that no matter what. You can always sign stop gap defensive centers in free agency to cover for Sutter in the short term. As much as Sutter's contract is inflated, he provides a tremendous importance in development of the prospects offensive games, but if anyone is willing to severely overpay for him you have to make the deal.

In this case, I would rather be more civil than calling your argument or position "ridiculous". :)

First, of course, no team is going to offer us 3 3rd round picks- and that is because that would be an overpayment.

I am not a big fan of Sutter at all, but he offers things that this team needs. I see free agent options to replace some of what he brings; however, not all of what he does. And I just don't believe we are an attractive spot for players, other than the likes of Gagner types where we have to overpay for uselessness; so who is going to agree to come here. We always say, you can find these players in free agency... really??? Sometimes, maybe.

Being an overpayment aside, 3 lottery tickets, each with a maybe 30% chance (on average), of becoming a low level NHL players years down the road- does not get me excited about moving a player who can help our young players to develop and even live in a professional way.

I might do it, and would be more motivated if I found a player who could not fail while taking those minutes for a couple of years, but I literally might not- and I don't see how that position is "ridiculous".

It was hypothetical and rhetorical statement,, but regardless, I wouldn't even unquestionably move him for a second- unless it was earlier than ours and then I would likely have to do it, but still only probably. Would you trade him for Kole Lind, for example? Kole has had a fantastic draft plus 1, and I think it is still less than 50% that he becomes an better than average NHL player in the future.

I am sure a lot of people on this site would do this without thinking. I just don't believe that is the way to help develop players. And some here don't seem to take into consideration what that looks like when they go for the draft rebuild. I suppose that might make sense on a board build around hockey Futures.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
9,215
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Canucks are currently desperate for centre depth with Henrik retiring though. Right now we have something like:

Horvat
Gaudette
Gagner/Sutter
Sutter/Gagner

That is pretty atrocious, assuming we don't sign a free agent like Bozak.

I think Sutter would have some value, especially if we retained 50% of his salary. Sutter @ $2,187,500 with 3 years left could be worth a late 1st if the market is right. Keep in mind that Sutter was a positive player (+8) on one of the worst teams in the league while taking tough matchups. He's a useful bottom 6 forward that can win face-offs, shut down opposition, and chip in some offence (good for 35 points if healthy). Our 4th line of Dorsett and Sutter was actually our best line to start the season.
 

THE Green Man

Registered User
Dec 27, 2013
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Narnia
In this case, I would rather be more civil than calling your argument or position "ridiculous". :)

First, of course, no team is going to offer us 3 3rd round picks- and that is because that would be an overpayment.

I am not a big fan of Sutter at all, but he offers things that this team needs. I see free agent options to replace some of what he brings; however, not all of what he does. And I just don't believe we are an attractive spot for players, other than the likes of Gagner types where we have to overpay for uselessness; so who is going to agree to come here. We always say, you can find these players in free agency... really??? Sometimes, maybe.

Being an overpayment aside, 3 lottery tickets, each with a maybe 30% chance (on average), of becoming a low level NHL players years down the road- does not get me excited about moving a player who can help our young players to develop and even live in a professional way.

I might do it, and would be more motivated if I found a player who could not fail while taking those minutes for a couple of years, but I literally might not- and I don't see how that position is "ridiculous".

It was hypothetical and rhetorical statement,, but regardless, I wouldn't even unquestionably move him for a second- unless it was earlier than ours and then I would likely have to do it, but still only probably. Would you trade him for Kole Lind, for example? Kole has had a fantastic draft plus 1, and I think it is still less than 50% that he becomes an better than average NHL player in the future.

I am sure a lot of people on this site would do this without thinking. I just don't believe that is the way to help develop players. And some here don't seem to take into consideration what that looks like when they go for the draft rebuild. I suppose that might make sense on a board build around hockey Futures.
I'll retract the "ridiculous" and replace it with "crazy". However my point stands that if someone is willing to severely overpay for Sutter I would move him in a heartbeat. If a guy like Jay Beagle does hit market, we could add him instead of Sutter by giving him ridiculous AAV on a 2-3 year deal. I do agree with you that Sutter is very needed in this system to allow the offensive games to grow of the younger players, but any overpayment and he needs to go. A trade at his market value, I hold onto him- much like a Tanev situation.
 

Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
May 28, 2010
15,078
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Vancouver
Whenever I read "we can sign someone in free agency", I cringe. Gagner, Del Zotto, Nilsson, Camel, Vrbata, Bartkowski, Miller, Eriksson...notice how a lot of those names are scapegoats and accused of being overpaid?

I still maintain an early third is probably even value, but we have no one to replace him internally, and as much as I hate his contract, he's not even grossly overpaid. I just think the circumstances surrounding his retention are what got me.
 

Cquant

Registered User
May 14, 2015
798
137
Canucks are currently desperate for centre depth with Henrik retiring though. Right now we have something like:

Horvat
Gaudette
Gagner/Sutter
Sutter/Gagner

That is pretty atrocious, assuming we don't sign a free agent like Bozak.

I think Sutter would have some value, especially if we retained 50% of his salary. Sutter @ $2,187,500 with 3 years left could be worth a late 1st if the market is right. Keep in mind that Sutter was a positive player (+8) on one of the worst teams in the league while taking tough matchups. He's a useful bottom 6 forward that can win face-offs, shut down opposition, and chip in some offence (good for 35 points if healthy). Our 4th line of Dorsett and Sutter was actually our best line to start the season.

We still have Dowd/Chaput/Gaunce/Granlund who can play center. At least for now. Gaunce could maybe take over the defensive responsibilities, but he probably also needs more time. Worst case scenario, we resign Dowd for a year and we suck one more year.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Allergic to draft picks
Jan 27, 2016
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We still have Dowd/Chaput/Gaunce/Granlund who can play center. At least for now. Gaunce could maybe take over the defensive responsibilities, but he probably also needs more time. Worst case scenario, we resign Dowd for a year and we suck one more year.

If those are our options for bottom 6 centres, we are certainly finishing bottom 5 next season. I almost barfed looking at those names as candidates for 3rd/4th line centres. Gaunce/Granlund are ok for 4th line duties. Dowd and Chaput shouldn't be in the NHL.
 

Johnsie19

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
2,418
304
Fair points. I think it would hinge around FA nonetheless. As bad as those contracts are with exception of Eriksson none of them will actually hurt the team by the time they are ready to contend.

I think it would be easy enough to find a depth C either via FA or trade and not have to sign them long term.

Bozak
Thornton
Filpulla
Plekanec
Spezza

These kinds of guys could all come in for 2 yrs or less (Bozak might require 3 I suppose) and fill the void of Sutter.

If we can get extra pick we absolutely must do that. Our record the last few yrs drafting has been excellent with many later round guys looking to have potential NHL futures.
 

Cquant

Registered User
May 14, 2015
798
137
If those are our options for bottom 6 centres, we are certainly finishing bottom 5 next season. I almost barfed looking at those names as candidates for 3rd/4th line centres. Gaunce/Granlund are ok for 4th line duties. Dowd and Chaput shouldn't be in the NHL.

Well if the plan is to sign Bozak or trade for a top 6 center to play with Pettersson, then we end up with Horvat, FA, Gaudette, Gaunce/Granlund and we have Gagner, Pettersson, Dahlen who could probably give it a go as well. Worst case scenario we grab MacEwen or someone from Utica.

I actually wouldn't mind signing a guy like Adam Cracknell again.
 
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K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
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4ish million isn’t bad for a shutdown Center these days.

Problem is, Suttter was never meant to be a main guy. In Pittsburgh, he was a shutdown down with zero expectation to score and he thrived.

Sutter could be solid if he goes to a really deep team.

Lol what the f*** are you talking about? Sutter was ass in Pittsburgh.

That’s why Rutherford traded him..again.
 

Bitz and Bites

Registered User
May 5, 2012
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Victoria
Benning says (like he does every year) that he wants to acqire more picks for the draft.Now that the Sedins are gone and there’s no expectations to try and compete for the playoffs,maybe this is the year he moves some assets to do it.We don’t have many vets with value but Sutter could really help a team that needs a quality shutdown centre and should fetch a decent return.I’d ask for next years first rounder and a late pick this year.
 

Canucks LB

My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
Oct 12, 2008
76,896
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with the cap going nuts, 4m for a third line center is basically the going rate now
 

Hansen

tyler motte simp
Oct 12, 2011
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We still have Dowd/Chaput/Gaunce/Granlund who can play center. At least for now. Gaunce could maybe take over the defensive responsibilities, but he probably also needs more time. Worst case scenario, we resign Dowd for a year and we suck one more year.
Brendan Gaunce is just as good as Sutter defensively, he needs to be put back at C now. The only difference between the two is Sutter's low-percentage-shot generation and the resulting (rare) goals.
 

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
26,289
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Brendan Gaunce is just as good as Sutter defensively, he needs to be put back at C now. The only difference between the two is Sutter's low-percentage-shot generation and the resulting (rare) goals.
Unless the return makes sense I’d like to see gaunce get the 2nd most Dzone starts behind sutter for a year. That frees up Bo to take henriks Ozone starts. And then puts gaudette next on that list.

Don’t think gaunce is ready for that responsibility just yet. Think you still get a pick for sutter next year when his full ntc turns into a mntc.
 

bobbyb2009

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
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Brendan Gaunce is just as good as Sutter defensively, he needs to be put back at C now. The only difference between the two is Sutter's low-percentage-shot generation and the resulting (rare) goals.

First, Gaunce has not shown he is ready for this kind of deployment- at least IMO. One day, maybe, but he has not shown this at all. Second, lots of differences between the two beyond the differences in defence- no need to go through them- they are different players. Additionally, if you consider Sutter's goals as rare, what is it you call Gaunces:) Nevermind, we don't need Sutter for his goals anyways...
 

Paulinvancouver

Gas station in Carbondale did not have fresh yams!
Dec 19, 2015
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Don't want to lose Sutter. That would be a big mistake. Would take a large overpayment for me.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
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Make my day.
Sutter is really overpaid and really isn't that good of a player. His defensive game is strong and he can score a good amount of goals as a center, but he has a super serious case of tunnel vision and is as soft as butter. He's not a good enough playmaker to play center and he's too soft to play the wing, at least effectively. Good teams have a center like Sutter on their 4th line, but he's paid like a 2C. The eye test with him is supported by his HERO chart, decent at scoring goals and shot suppression, absolutely horrid at getting assists and shot generation.

Sutter has terrible vision and a bad passing game and is meh on the cycle. Sutter is a big part of the reason Granlund completely disappeared this year. A guy that can't pass with a guy that needs to be passed to. Sutter's tunnel vision + Granlund's need to be set up = Granlund black hole.

Having said that the Canucks actually used Sutter correctly this year, demoted him to 3C with heavy Dzone starts. Trying to capitalise on his breakouts and defense rather than try and get ozone usage out of him. If that is the role some team has in mind for him, he'll be a good pickup if they get the Canucks to eat a $1-1.5m. I'd be looking for a 2nd+ with that kind of retention.
 
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Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
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Brendan Gaunce is just as good as Sutter defensively, he needs to be put back at C now. The only difference between the two is Sutter's low-percentage-shot generation and the resulting (rare) goals.

The skating as well.
 

wej20

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
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UK
Sutter might be the best 4th line centre in the NHL

Agreed. I don't like him as a 3rd line centre, he's not very good at keeping the other team in their own zone. He's a threat off the rush but who wants that from a 3rd line centre.
 

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