Post-Game Talk: Boston Creamed | 01/11

[StefanW]

Yeah, his minutes are not 4th line minutes due to PP and PK time. Even strength he's our 4C, even though like it was said the minutes are spread apart almost evenly.

I just have been underwhelmed with this guy last year when he came over to DET + his preseason this year + the season so far. Especially in the dot. He seems to lose a lot of key draws. He must be better in particular in defensive draws on the PK. The best penalty kill is to win the draw.

I don't know if I would disconnect PP and PK to quite that degree. PP and PK minutes are still minutes, which means players need to rest. If you play a lot on the PP and PK you end up playing less than you normally would during 5V5 simply because you need to rest between shifts. The exception is if you have a guy who is a PP or PK specialist and is not there to play 5V5, but you don't see that as often in the current NHL.

I am underwhelmed with parts of his game too, so I agree with you there. He really does not give up much in 5V5 though, which is why he was brought in. The man really chews up minutes when he is on the ice, and every team needs that. Especially a team like the Sens who give up shots like I give out candy on Halloween.

 

[Alex1234]

I think Legwand has been steady. He's made a couple big costly mistakes, but aside from that he hasn't been bad. He hasn't been spectacular, but that's about what I expected. Its not like he signed for a tonne of money.

no but we signed him as a steady veterans whose not going to cost us any game

at this point lazar , LAZAR , a 19 years old, has been more reliable and more spectacular then legwand

if he had the same PP minutes than legwand who knows where we would be

As for karlsson his goalie move against bicker (chicago) and his 2 mistakes last night were no where near plays by someone of his caliber

he's our captain and best player

he has to play like one

 

[Super Cake]

It is sort of interesting that we played somewhat fine against the Hawks, but completely **** the bed against the Bruins.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Listening to games without the GDTs is so much better lol

By the way, FIRST (1st) regulation time loss against an EASTERN team.



It's a bit ridiculous... Some people sound like they have just started following the NHL last year. lol what's new? 82 games is a long season

Some of the comments you read are just so inaccurate and many just don't make any sense. It looks to me like a bug spinning on its back trying to get on its feet. Some should really start trying to manage their emotions a bit better, you can't let a sports team bring you down like that.

Sens are a young inexperienced team (less NHL games on the roster in the whole league) who won't be nothing more than a playoffs bubble team for now, not until many young players get more experience and take more place (Ceci, Lazar, Stone, etc). They also have one the lowest payrolls in the whole league, and yet some expect them to win every game.

That's the problem with this team... The fanbase has unrealistic expectations and I wouldn't be surprised if they run Karlsson out of town. Who's next after? Turris or Ryan?

lol think about it one sec... Who the heck wants to play for Ottawa? You have to reach MacArthur successful level or else... Look at Legwand for example... The veteran signs a cheap short term contract (just slightly above the league average) and is already receiving a ton of hate. Look at the hate for Phillips last year... The guys feel the vibes, and I'm not surprised if you never hear anyone says that he has pride to wear this jersey for this city. If Sens fans only had 1/10 of Habs fans loyalty and support, maybe this team would feel like they have some people behind their backs.

What? You mean the same fanbase that is quickly to boo their own players?

 

[Cosmix]

In hindsight, Michalek and Legwand should not have been signed. They are useless and unneeded.

At a high price too:

2014 - $7m
2015 - $7m
2016 - $4m
Total $18m

 

[Slack]

I think switching lines dont help, if players dont show up for a game.

 

[StefanW]

At a high price too:

2014 - $7m
2015 - $7m
2016 - $4m
Total $18m

You should probably specify that those figures are the two players combined for the next two seasons, and only 9 MM for the third season.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Legwand would look so much better with condra and a better LW. Smith and Neil can go. I truly feel that smith can get us a nice little return.

 

[Cosmix]

29 shots to 30 seems even until you consider how many of our shots were perimeter shots or soft floaters into Rask. I'll take quality shots over quantity shots everyday

So would I. Do you have a source?

 

[Cosmix]

You seem obsessed with the shots count... Yes it "looks" fine but to me it was the worst game with probably Florida in terms of scoring chances for... We didn't gave up a lot though, but Boston were quick to capitalize on EK's mistakes and Lehner gave up 2 so-so goals.

Despite the score being 4-2, it wasn't really an offensive game, a few nice individual efforts but overall a tad boring if you like scoring chances.

Shots locations :

http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400563730
.

I don't see any shot location chart there. Has ESPN removed it or stopped providing it?

 

[coladin]

Couldn't beat Boston without Chara, Krug, Krejci...how disappointing. Karlsson was embarrassing himself out there, but you would never know it listening to the announcers.

He looks like a rookie out there, like he doesn 't know what to do. Puzzling.

Unlucky but the effort I thought was there and good hustle.

 

[Savannah Skunk]

It is sort of interesting that we played somewhat fine against the Hawks, but completely **** the bed against the Bruins.

I'd imagine Legwand has some pretty good inside info on that team based on his history of playing them.

By the end of this year, I believe many will be happy we signed him.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It is sort of interesting that we played somewhat fine against the Hawks, but completely **** the bed against the Bruins.

There seems to be a bit of a trend the last few years with the elite teams. They kinda go on cruise control for the first half of the season, then slowly ramp up into playoff form around April.

It makes sense....those teams can still put up points by playing less than 100% effort, so they're not really in a lot of danger of missing the post season. Plus, it leaves enough int he tank to really go full throttle in the post season.

Bruins with their injuries don't have a lot of wiggle room to play with, while the Hawks can sleepwalk until December.

 

[starling]

Couldn't beat Boston without Chara, Krug, Krejci...how disappointing. Karlsson was embarrassing himself out there, but you would never know it listening to the announcers.

3 weeks ago most were projecting Bruins contending for a cup and Sens for McDavid. Now we are disappointed with an even hard fought away game at Boston that we happened to lose.
This is amazing.

 

[Xspyrit]

You're condescending nature usually clouds your ability to assess what other people are saying.
I read this whole post (because you took the time to write it. But I'll address the whole "there's 82 games in a season" argument.yes there's ups and downs. I agree. But how many ups have we had this year? Or last year? And in terms of karlsson. As captain and our best player I think he has a shorter leash on how many downs he's allowed to have (isn't that what separates the good players from the bad anyway?) it's been a lot of down from him this year. And I think he's going to turn it around. But don't get all up in arms when he continually screws up and people get angry. Especially people that read these board and hear how he's almost on the level of Crosby. And he's elite this and generational that. Regardless of whether there's a thousand games left in the season or 1. He's playing poorly.

lol anyway... I'll leave you have your way with that. If my hockey posting makes you believe that, then good for you and congrats for your internet psychoanalysis skillz. I can do that too, so I don't think I have problems assessing the biases and paranoia reflected in posts. We're not talking about anything else than hockey here. Everyone is certainly very different in other spheres of life (internet is not real life), and I hope it's the case for you as well because it would be mad creepy. lol

Karlsson has been crap for HIS standards, but not as bad as your posting

Biancosaurus for you! And calm down with that or I could find it condescending

And seriously, a team that is 5-3-2 didn't have many ups? You talk like the team is crap and barely deserve to be a NHL team... Do you listen to yourself sometimes or maybe that's all you can do?

So let's stop quoting ourselves all right? I almost never agree with what you say and many times I'm scratching my head "where the heck that idea came from?". Sometimes it doesn't even compute in my head, we have no affinity on the subject. I just dislike reading your posts. Thanks

Hey Xspirit and StefanW, I'm still waiting on Legwand to pleasantly surprise me.

I see a lot of quality plays that Legwand makes and the goals and assists he scored were not fluke. Let's realize that he plays a shutdown role with not the most talented players...

FACTS tell me they haven't been scored against a lot so far this season :

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

I'm sure some people will be surprised by those facts, and their argumentation could take a heavy hit.

That's the problem I have with the board in general. Many people make up their judgments based on plays they liked or didn't like. For my part, I look up at cold straight facts, then mix it with my observations and then make my judgments and form an opinion. David Legwand has been effective. Just don't expect him to ALWAYS be effective or look good when you're looking at him.

I know it's early but it reminds me already of Sergei Gonchar in Ottawa and how I defended him for what he brought. It took a while for people to appreciate him, more like when he was gone

We might be better of this year to miss out and get a top 10 pick. Not saying lose on purpose....but perhaps this is a good year to give some kids like Puempel, Prince, etc a baptism by fire. If we lose a few more games, then we lose. Move some redundant pieces like Greening, Weir, maybe Condra and a B prospect or two for a few decent picks. Take advantage of a strong draft and give our kids some legit NHL experience to see where our farm talent is really at.

Yes but how do we do that? Do we want to teach young guys how to lose? Thing is that the Sens are probably trying to emulate the Bruins and Wings, not the Oilers and Sabres...

BM is probably trying to make a few roster moves but it's probably easier to say than do.

Yeah, I'm just referring to me calling Legwand a 3C at best in the preseason and Xspirit and StefanW disagreeing. He's been playing with 4C line mates so far.

David Legwand is actually 4th in TOI/G among the Ottawa Senators forwards

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20152OTTFAFALL&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

Do I need to say anything more? Don't think it will be necessary... But yes, so far Legwand plays with 4th liners (Hoffman, Neil, Smith)... so if you're expecting 50-60 pts out of him this year, you're out of bounds.

What? You mean the same fanbase that is quickly to boo their own players?

Many canadian hockey fans... are fanatics (remember they booed Kuba and Gonchar in Ottawa as well, and don't they boo Chara?). But if you don't think Habs fans are more supportive and loyal to their team, then I don't know what to say. Come here to witness it maybe? It's not really comparable. I'm not sayin they're not blind, etc but they have qualities that this fanbase can only dream about.

For example... Do you really think they would let another fanbase swarm into their arena?

I don't see any shot location chart there. Has ESPN removed it or stopped providing it?

No it's there... Close (x) in the middle first

 

[Burrowsaurus]

A team that has to be continually bailed out by it's goalies is not a good team. I don't understand how that isn't making sense to people.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

lol anyway... I'll leave you have your way with that. If my hockey posting makes you believe that, then good for you and congrats for your internet psychoanalysis skillz. I can do that too, so I don't think I have problems assessing the biases and paranoia reflected in posts. We're not talking about anything else than hockey here. Everyone is certainly very different in other spheres of life (internet is not real life), and I hope it's the case for you as well because it would be mad creepy. lol

Karlsson has been crap for HIS standards, but not as bad as your posting

Biancosaurus for you! And calm down with that or I could find it condescending

And seriously, a team that is 5-3-2 didn't have many ups? You talk like the team is crap and barely deserve to be a NHL team... Do you listen to yourself sometimes or maybe that's all you can do?

So let's stop quoting ourselves all right? I almost never agree with what you say and many times I'm scratching my head "where the heck that idea came from?". Sometimes it doesn't even compute in my head, we have no affinity on the subject. I'm actually even considering putting you on ignore because I just dislike reading your posts and it would be the first time I use that function in 7 years. Thanks



I see a lot of quality plays that Legwand makes and the goals and assists he scored were not fluke. Let's realize that he plays a shutdown role with not the most talented players...

FACTS tell me they haven't been scored against a lot so far this season :

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=21&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

I'm sure some people will be surprised by those facts, and their argumentation could take a heavy hit.

That's the problem I have with the board in general. Many people make up their judgments based on plays they liked or didn't like. For my part, I look up at cold straight facts, then mix it with my observations and then make my judgments and form an opinion. David Legwand has been effective. Just don't expect him to ALWAYS be effective or look good when you're looking at him.

I know it's early but it reminds me already of Sergei Gonchar in Ottawa and how I defended him for what he brought. It took a while for people to appreciate him, more like when he was gone



Yes but how do you do that? Do we want to teach young guys how to lose? Thing is that the Sens are probably trying to emulate the Bruins and Wings, not the Oilers and Sabres...



David Legwand is actually 4th in TOI/G among the Ottawa Senators forwards

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20152OTTFAFALL&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

Do I need to say anything more? Don't think it will be necessary... But yes, so far Legwand plays with 4th liners (Hoffman, Neil, Smith)... so if you're expecting 50-60 pts out of him this year, you're out of bounds.



Many canadian hockey fans... are fanatics (remember they booed Kuba and Gonchar in Ottawa as well, and don't they boo Chara?). But if you don't think Habs fans are more supportive and loyal to their team, then I don't know what to say. Come here to witness it maybe? It's not really comparable. I'm not sayin they're not blind, etc but they have qualities that this fanbase can only dream about.

For example... Do you really think they would let another fanbase swarm into their arena?



No it's there... Close (x) in the middle first

And I'm still wondering where the disagreement is here.. I think karlsson should be better defensively .... And you don't? I really don't know.

 

[God Says No]

David Legwand is actually 4th in TOI/G among the Ottawa Senators forwards

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20152OTTFAFALL&sort=avgTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

Do I need to say anything more? Don't think it will be necessary... But yes, so far Legwand plays with 4th liners (Hoffman, Neil, Smith)... so if you're expecting 50-60 pts out of him this year, you're out of bounds.

That's cool with the TOI, but you will also notice he has played most of SH minutes. On the pecking order I see him as a 4th line C.

I never expected 60, nor 50 nor 40 points actually. This was my view in the preseason. He was going to be a 3rd line center AT BEST. You and StefanW were surprised at my assessment. I guess I'm saying "I told you so".

 

[Burrowsaurus]

That's cool with the TOI, but you will also notice he has played most of SH minutes. On the pecking order I see him as a 4th line C.

I never expected 60, nor 50 nor 40 points actually. This was my view in the preseason. He was going to be a 3rd line center AT BEST. You and StefanW were surprised at my assessment. I guess I'm saying "I told you so".

Yeah seems fair. If he has thirty to forty points with strong reliable defensive play I would be really happy with that. It's not saying anything negative. Although it's sometimes taken that way.

 

[Xspyrit]

A team that has to be continually bailed out by it's goalies is not a good team. I don't understand how that isn't making sense to people.

Habs and Rangers are not good teams I guess (Habs are heavily more bailed out by their goalie than the Sens)... Which team is good in the east? Pittsburgh and Boston? Even then, Rask is a pretty good goalie and Thomas was standing on his head most nights

And why are the Sens are the only team bailed out by their goalies? Because they give 5 more shots (outside shots at that most of the time) than the average of 30? Did you know it's actually the goalie's work?

I guess LA is NOT a good team as well... I mean they give up a lot of shots and have been bailed out by their goalie...

Do you watch other NHL games? There's ton of scoring chances all over the place and NHL goalies are GOOD, VERY GOOD.

"I don't understand how that isn't making sense to people". Isn't sort of condescending? lol you're funny

I think you should lol. I'd almost be honored.
And I'm still wondering where the disagreement is here.. I think karlsson should be better defensively .... And you don't? I really don't know.

Well, I'm not very interested in little internet warz so I prefer to leave it like that and judge me all you want bro, I just can't seem to care.

And about Karlsson, we actually totally agree on that. IMO, he has been by far the worst player defensively and has the double ES GA than others...

So can we stop quoting ourselves now?

That's cool with the TOI, but you will also notice he has played most of SH minutes. On the pecking order I see him as a 4th line C.

I never expected 60, nor 50 nor 40 points actually. This was my view in the preseason. He was going to be a 3rd line center AT BEST. You and StefanW were surprised at my assessment. I guess I'm saying "I told you so".

Okay, you can "see him" as the 4th line Center if you want, but what does it change? The coaching staff will decide to give him the ice-time they want and it looks like they want him mostly for special teams and shutdown at Even Strenght (with Neil and Smith). That could change but they haven't been scored on a lot*.

* ES GA so far in first 10 games :

Smith : 4
Legwand : 3
Neil : 2

Let that sink in people... MacArthur and Chiasson with 7 GA. Karlsson leads the team with 14 ES GA, Cowen is 2nd with 8 ES GA, but that's mainly because he played with Karlsson. Phillips has been awesome with only 5 ES GA AND playing with Karlsson.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....osition=S&country=&status=&viewName=plusMinus

You can say "I told you so" if you want as well, doesn't matter. I don't think me and Stefan were shocked if the only thing you said was 3rd lien Center (because we probably expected him to play after Turris and Zibanejad, I know that was my expectation), but IIRC it was the "nothing more than a 4th line center" I was surprised with... So, I'm not sure there's an "I told you so" here, sorry

I could try and search for quotes but my desire is actually to log off and make a better use of my time. Ciao

 

[God Says No]

Yeah seems fair. If he has thirty to forty points with strong reliable defensive play I would be really happy with that. It's not saying anything negative. Although it's sometimes taken that way.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be negative, just trying to be realistic with what I saw last year and the preseason. I just don't think he's a 40 point center anymore.

Although I thought he's going to be better in the dot though. He's been losing draws cleanly, which lead to one of the goals last game.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Habs and Rangers are not good teams I guess (Habs are heavily more bailed out by their goalie than the Sens)... Which team is good in the east? Pittsburgh and Boston? Even then, Rask is a pretty good goalie and Thomas was standing on his head most nights

And why are the Sens are the only team bailed out by their goalies? Because they give 5 more shots (outside shots at that most of the time) than the average of 30? Did you know it's actually the goalie's work?

I guess LA is NOT a good team as well... I mean they give up a lot of shots and have been bailed out by their goalie...

Do you watch other NHL games? There's ton of scoring chances all over the place and NHL goalies are GOOD, VERY GOOD.

"I don't understand how that isn't making sense to people". Isn't sort of condescending? lol you're funny



Well, I'm not very interested in little internet warz so I prefer to leave it like that and judge me all you want bro, I just can't seem to care.

So we stop quoting ourselves after, okay?



Okay, you can "see him" as the 4th line Center if you want, but what does it change? The coaching staff will decide to give him the ice-time they want and it looks like they want him mostly for special teams and shutdown at Even Strenght (with Neil and Smith). That could change but they haven't been scored on a lot*.

* ES GA so far in first 10 games :

Smith : 4
Legwand : 3
Neil : 2

Let that sink in people... MacArthur and Chiasson with 7 GA. Karlsson leads the team with 14 ES GA, Cowen is 2nd with 8 ES GA, but that's mainly because he played with Karlsson. Phillips has been awesome with only 5 ES GA AND playing with Karlsson.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....osition=S&country=&status=&viewName=plusMinus

Again you just kind of choose to ignore key words.

I have lots of buddies that are Habs fans. And they are not impressed with HOW MUCH they have to be bailed out. Just because a team gives up a a good here and and there doesn't mean they're bad it's completely natural. The Other tteam has to try and score as well. But your goalie shouldnt have to be your best player every single night. To me that's a sign of mediocre defending.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be negative, just trying to be realistic with what I saw last year and the preseason. I just don't think he's a 40 point center anymore.

Although I thought he's going to be better in the dot though. He's been losing draws cleanly, which lead to one of the goals last game.

I've noticed that too. Not sure what the issue is there. Its hard to expect him to break out offensively with Neil and smith though. I haven't minded his game up until now. A few brain cramps but I mean it's a new team with a new system.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If Legwand is a solid PK guy and doesn't make any major mistakes at even strength and can help the kids along, then he's doing alright. More points wouldn't hurt, but that's not the main reason he's here.

Only head-scratcher so far this year was that really bad flip pass to no one while we were shorthanded in OT a couple games ago. Hard to bash a guy for one mistake though.

 

[God Says No]

Okay, you can "see him" as the 4th line Center if you want, but what does it change? The coaching staff will decide to give him the ice-time they want and it looks like they want him mostly for special teams and shutdown at Even Strenght (with Neil and Smith). That could change but they haven't been scored on a lot*.

* ES GA so far in first 10 games :

Smith : 4
Legwand : 3
Neil : 2

Let that sink in people... MacArthur and Chiasson with 7 GA. Karlsson leads the team with 14 ES GA, Cowen is 2nd with 8 ES GA, but that's mainly because he played with Karlsson. Phillips has been awesome with only 5 ES GA AND playing with Karlsson.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....osition=S&country=&status=&viewName=plusMinus

You can say "I told you so" if you want as well, doesn't matter. I don't think me and Stefan were shocked if the only thing you said was 3rd lien Center (because we probably expected him to play after Turris and Zibanejad, I know that was my expectation), but IIRC it was the "nothing more than a 4th line center" I was surprised with... So, I'm not sure there's an "I told you so" here, sorry

I could try and search for quotes but my desire is actually to log off and make a better use of my time. Ciao

Like I said. I don't look at SH and PP time to decide where in the pecking order a player is. Even strength time is more interesting and also who he plays with on the line.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

And sorry I made a mistake. It was Bonk and StefanW, not you Xspirit. For some reason I think you and Bonk are the same person. Maybe you guys have the same thought process.