Post-Game Talk: Boston Bruins at New York Rangers 2/7/18

[JC704]

AV is a disaster, but so is Gorton. He was assistant general manager for years before he "took over."

- Was in on the decision to extend BOTH Staal and Girardi
- Made a God awful Hagelin trade, which hurt not getting at least an NHL asset in return
- Went out and gave Dan Boyle a two-year contract for the same amount of money per year it would have taken to re-sign Stralman
- Speaking of Boyle (Brian), splitting hairs on salary here, he ended up leaving for nothing at the expense of paying a guy like Tanner Glass instead of carrying Boyle and an AHL call-up (or looking in another direction)
- Traded for Staal and Smith over the past two trade deadlines; AV misused him and Skjei in the postseason, which ultimately cost the team a chance at a Cup. Although Smith played well down the stretch last year, right now that extension looks disastrous
- Shipped out the heart and REAL captain of the team (besides Hank, of course) Stepan in a box to the desert, and did nothing to make a move for a replacement top-six center or locker room leader
- Helped ruin Ryan McDonagh's prime. Everybody on this board says he stinks now, but you would too playing a majority of your career with guys who advanced stats project as bottom pair players. Many NHL players play well into their 30s now, including defensemen. DO NOT buy McDonagh is bad, at all, and if he is traded they WILL regret it

All of those bad moves/decisions/circumstances outweigh a good Yandle trade (no foresight into keeping him here), and a good Brassard trade for Mika. He was massively instrumental in the deconstruction of a perennial contender, and the team has regressed noticeably since when he took over. If he can't make the correct decisions to diagnosis which players were essential to the core of players that were helping this team win and making consistent playoff runs, how do I trust him in a rebuild? Answer: I don't.

 

[Idlerlee]

I assume that all of you people who loudly advocate for tanking and sucking for a high draft pick will commit to purchasing game tickets and attend the games since you are getting your will now?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I assume that all of you people who loudly advocate for tanking and sucking for a high draft pick will commit to purchasing game tickets and attend the games since you are getting your will now?

A bunch of them don't even live in the western hemisphere.

 

[Kaapo Kakko]

AV is probably going to be fired but lets all remember he was also the coach who took the Rangers to the Stanley Cup Finals a few years ago, and also gave us many other good seasons with deep playoff runs. As we all know making the finals is not something that comes easy for this franchise. We should be appreciative of his contributions.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I assume that all of you people who loudly advocate for tanking and sucking for a high draft pick will commit to purchasing game tickets and attend the games since you are getting your will now?

I mean, it’s necessary. I know Rangers don’t get revenue off of it, but I just committed a lot of money to lower bowl tickets and a 2.5 hour drive in each direction to see the Rangers lose to Dallas. As much as the team stinks, if I had the opportunity to see them live more I would still buy tickets. I still watch all the games despite the fact that I start each one wanting them to play well but ultimately am not upset when they inevitably are outplayed or fall behind because I’ve already accepted that this year, being a lottery team is the best thing for the health of the franchise. One season of “tanking” in which we didn’t make the decision to tank until 50% of the way through (so really half a year of tanking) is a relatively small price to pay if we’re able to gather a few first round picks and really restock the system this summer.

 

[Mike in Houston]

I mean, it’s necessary. I know Rangers don’t get revenue off of it, but I just committed a lot of money to lower bowl tickets and a 2.5 hour drive in each direction to see the Rangers lose to Dallas. As much as the team stinks, if I had the opportunity to see them live more I would still buy tickets. I still watch all the games despite the fact that I start each one wanting them to play well but ultimately am not upset when they inevitably are outplayed or fall behind because I’ve already accepted that this year, being a lottery team is the best thing for the health of the franchise. One season of “tanking” in which we didn’t make the decision to tank until 50% of the way through (so really half a year of tanking) is a relatively small price to pay if we’re able to gather a few first round picks and really restock the system this summer.

I drove 4+ each way although I did stay at a hotel on Monday night.

 

[ponytrekker]

I assume that all of you people who loudly advocate for tanking and sucking for a high draft pick will commit to purchasing game tickets and attend the games since you are getting your will now?

Too late now, 'cause I can't sell. Might as well embrace the tank though I have no confidence it will turn out ok.

 

[ponytrekker]

AV is probably going to be fired but lets all remember he was also the coach who took the Rangers to the Stanley Cup Finals a few years ago, and also gave us many other good seasons with deep playoff runs. As we all know making the finals is not something that comes easy for this franchise. We should be appreciative of his contributions.

Yeah, but his system has been figured out and he doesn't adapt.

 

[pld459666]

Who was 34 years old and on the last year of his contract.

Imagine the return he would have gotten had he been traded 4-5 years earlier. A good chance the dark ages would have been cut in half

But you can be a mouse or a lion or some stupid shit like that

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

AV is a disaster, but so is Gorton. He was assistant general manager for years before he "took over."

- Was in on the decision to extend BOTH Staal and Girardi
- Made a God awful Hagelin trade, which hurt not getting at least an NHL asset in return
- Went out and gave Dan Boyle a two-year contract for the same amount of money per year it would have taken to re-sign Stralman
- Speaking of Boyle (Brian), splitting hairs on salary here, he ended up leaving for nothing at the expense of paying a guy like Tanner Glass instead of carrying Boyle and an AHL call-up (or looking in another direction)
- Traded for Staal and Smith over the past two trade deadlines; AV misused him and Skjei in the postseason, which ultimately cost the team a chance at a Cup. Although Smith played well down the stretch last year, right now that extension looks disastrous
- Shipped out the heart and REAL captain of the team (besides Hank, of course) Stepan in a box to the desert, and did nothing to make a move for a replacement top-six center or locker room leader
- Helped ruin Ryan McDonagh's prime. Everybody on this board says he stinks now, but you would too playing a majority of your career with guys who advanced stats project as bottom pair players. Many NHL players play well into their 30s now, including defensemen. DO NOT buy McDonagh is bad, at all, and if he is traded they WILL regret it

All of those bad moves/decisions/circumstances outweigh a good Yandle trade (no foresight into keeping him here), and a good Brassard trade for Mika. He was massively instrumental in the deconstruction of a perennial contender, and the team has regressed noticeably since when he took over. If he can't make the correct decisions to diagnosis which players were essential to the core of players that were helping this team win and making consistent playoff runs, how do I trust him in a rebuild? Answer: I don't.

The first half of that happened with slats still running the show.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

AV is probably going to be fired but lets all remember he was also the coach who took the Rangers to the Stanley Cup Finals a few years ago, and also gave us many other good seasons with deep playoff runs. As we all know making the finals is not something that comes easy for this franchise. We should be appreciative of his contributions.

Let’s also remember it was his first year here and then the team just got worse the more time he spent here..

 

[Boruto]

Our Dear Leader Alain will lead us to the promise land at the draft. If we finish 4-20-3 under Vigneault, we're in 3rd last at worse and there's no way they bring back a 4-20-3 coach that the players have quit on. This is our destiny.

If he's fired now, we're going to bounce back even with a dirty toilet plunger as head coach and a toilet scrubber as associate coach. Then they talk among themselves and decide to hire the dirty plumbing snake as their assistant coach.

Every loss is positive equity for a coaching change and draft pick.

 

[Terrier]

 

[NCRanger]

This

I don't think people looking back understand that at the moment each one of those teams were put together , on paper , they were assumed to be virtual all-star teams.

I understand the teams were bad, and in hindsight it's easy to look a little deeper beyond the names, but the Dark Ages weren't looked at as a down year/transition period as I think the current era should be looked at now.

It was a period of unbelievably her scratching moves where 90%+ did not pan out.

Think the Gomez/Drury/Redden signings were weird?

Holik?

And on top of that, the Rangers take most of the heat, but the truth was most of the big market teams were close in payroll to the Rangers, and the league was on the verge of collapse.

Bobby Hull had already begun getting investors again for the WHL 2.0.

Also, not directly hockey related, but we are talking about a period in the metro area with 9-11 and the wars starting.

My point is there are so few parallels with the Dark Ages.

This is just a transition team with a lot of injuries and a lot of players aware they are on the chopping block on a very, very streak team.

There are parallels with the fact the farm system is basically crap.

However, one of the things that's missed is that era of Rangers hockey also saw some of the most unbelievably bad luck to ever strike a professional sports organization.

Had any one of those moves actually worked, the Rangers make the playoffs and maybe even win a round or two. Outside of the Devils, those Ranger teams usually showed up to play the better teams in the league. It was the games against Atlanta, Columbus, etc., where the overpaid non-caring attitudes really came out to "shine". Detroit was doing the same thing the Rangers were doing, but they were winning.

One of the biggest differences then was that a case could be made for making a big signing and it would change the direction of the team. It was just that nothing worked. And it was repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat into having to repeat, mainly because the team was never quite bad enough to justify a "tank".

Now, there is far less talent to sign. The farm system is still awful, and they're going to have to hope that 18 year old kids are the answer.

 

[NCRanger]

Imagine the return he would have gotten had he been traded 4-5 years earlier. A good chance the dark ages would have been cut in half

But you can be a mouse or a lion or some stupid **** like that

Imagine if he were traded the year Gretzky retired. They would have never resigned Messier. They could have restocked the system instead of making a few trades and drafting the wonder twins in Brendl and Lundmark.

I've always blamed Neil Smith for putting Sather in the spot of having to go the overpaid veterans route, because Smith was the main reason the cupboard was so bare to begin with.

 

[eco's bones]

They're a frustrated team currently pretty decimated by injuries and that can't play the system the coach is insisting they play.

Blaming them for not "playing with pride" is kinda dumb. Not many players in any sport just go "yeah but I got PRIDE" and suddenly start kicking some ass when everything on the team is collapsing around them.

Once the team went down two goals the players stopped competing. Shitty coaching or not--that's on them.

It's really easy to blame AV for everything I suppose but these f***s are paid to play hard if only for the people in the arena who have spent $100's just to see them. But maybe you thought they worked hard. I didn't.

 

[chosen]

Gotta say that losing Stepan and Girardi in the room has not helped McD. Those guys may have had their warts, but they were leaders that were never replaced.
No coincidence that when we went to the finals, we had MSL and Richards, and MSL the following year, where we were 1 period again from a finals appearance. We need veteran players with character that have won, to lead the way for the young guys that will make up the next core. I don't see many, if any leaders on this club presently, besides Hank of course​

The "room" stuff is horse shit and always has been. McLeod is famous for being a "room" guy. Great.

Lamenting the losses of Stepan and Girardi and saying they played a role in McDonagh's performance is nonsense. Why not Raanta, too? Or perhaps Lindberg.

People make these kinds of declarations all the time to explain things when the obvious is ignored.

They stink right now because 5 regulars are out and because a losing malaise has taken over like it does on all sinking ships.

 

[chosen]

At least it is clear how damaged the team fabric is. Things did go south after Kreider went out of the lineup. In a way, that is a blessing, and I only say that now because Chris is okay, thankfully. It helped to paint the picture.
The Bruins don't have a bunch of elite players, except for I would say Bergeron, but they have such quality and depth. They play like a bunch of interchangeable parts.
They were stacking those parts up while the Rangers tried to pad the roster to get a Cup. I actually enjoyed that ride very much. So, I am not surprised at this season. A lot of posters here are much smarter than I, and they knew it was coming.
Like Larry Brooks said, the bills have arrived and are being paid.

Marchand and Pasternak are not elite!?

I have seen Kreider called elite here and he's not at their level.

 

[Tawnos]

The "room" stuff is horse **** and always has been. McLeod is famous for being a "room" guy. Great.

Lamenting the losses of Stepan and Girardi and saying they played a role in McDonagh's performance is nonsense. Why not Raanta, too? Or perhaps Lindberg.

People make these kinds of declarations all the time to explain things when the obvious is ignored.

They stink right now because 5 regulars are out and because a losing malaise has taken over like it does on all sinking ships.

Because Raanta and Lindberg weren’t leaders on the team?

They stink right now for a whole host of reasons. Getting rid of Girardi and Stepans leadership is one of those reasons. That’s not to say they were the wrong moves. That’s just to say they’re a factor.

 

[chosen]

Because Raanta and Lindberg weren’t leaders on the team?

They stink right now for a whole host of reasons. Getting rid of Girardi and Stepans leadership is one of those reasons. That’s not to say they were the wrong moves. That’s just to say they’re a factor.

If I wrote here last season that losing Girardi would hurt this team, I would have been ridiculed by 95% of the posters, but now it's reasonable.

 

[NCRanger]

The "room" stuff is horse **** and always has been. McLeod is famous for being a "room" guy. Great.

Lamenting the losses of Stepan and Girardi and saying they played a role in McDonagh's performance is nonsense. Why not Raanta, too? Or perhaps Lindberg.

People make these kinds of declarations all the time to explain things when the obvious is ignored.

They stink right now because 5 regulars are out and because a losing malaise has taken over like it does on all sinking ships.

Question -- have you ever played a team sport, even at a high school level? If you have, you can't tell me that playing with teammates that have good attitudes and leadership abilities makes practicing and playing a more enjoyable time than playing with guys who are negative and/or are extremely quiet.

The "room" and attitude inside it are extremely important. Leadership, or more importantly, lack thereof, can make a weaker team better, and a stronger team worse.

Sure, the players you mention might not be the glue inside the "room", but don't believe chemistry between teammates doesn't have a lot to do with success. Sure, having 5 regulars out is destroying this bunch, but even before that, they weren't the same team they were for the past seasons.

 

[Blais to Win]

Kasparitis played pretty well for us. His buddy, Malakhov, not so much.

Also Mike Dunham was pretty good for a while. His first year he had some ridiculous win (?) streak record that Lundqvist only just recently broke a year or three ago. And if that team with the Lafontaine/Gretzky 1-2 punch had just worked out it might have all been different. That team was just insane on paper.

I think this is nothing close to those Dark Ages. We need guys to get healthy, to make some moves, hire a new coach, and next year or two could see some real improvement.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How long should it take to make a decision on, for example, a player like Graves?

It makes no sense to me either.

Our defense has sucked all season, but the answer is never to send them down or sit them down, its to change the forwards, which haven't been that big of a problem this season, outside of the obvious that we have no star forward and little depth.

I guess AV won't threaten the spots of his boys, Staal, Kampfer, Holden, Smith, although Smith's been scratched sometimes, so they kind of have threatened his spot. Even like Skjei, he is probably one of our better defenseman, but young players under AV typically don't get the leash he gets, and he hasn't had a good season, in my opinion. There's a big discrepancy between the accountability for forwards and defenseman.

I don't understand it. Graves no chance, Pionk no chance, Bereglazov didn't even get a chance in preseason. DeAngelo's chance has been sporadic. What is the plan here? They like the personnel on defense? I don't. I thought the plan was to get younger and cheaper on the back-end. Instead, the GM gave out another two big contracts, and those players were big culprits of the defensive problems this season.

 

[Idlerlee]

I just want to point out that Brian Boyle did not leave the Rangers because they were splitting hairs about his salary. He left because he was not given a promise he'd see an increased role in the team, ie. moving up from the 4th line.

 

[Off Sides]

My version of the dark ages, it was a time where the only direction was based on marketing older past their prime used to be star players in an attempt to just put butts in the seats. Draft and development was basically non existent. There was no plan other than sign this guy or that one, throw stuff against the wall was the basic premise. Come to the Rangers get a big pay day before retiring was a thing.

The salary cap was the only thing that changed that direction, Rangers had to actually draft and develop some players just to build a team that fit into the cap. It worked well enough as those guys, combined with a lucky last round goalie pick, with the Jagr trade, Nylander and some other signings got them back into the playoffs. When Nylander could not be signed, they doubled down on the UFA signing again, trying the same failed idea that throwing money at the holes on the roster would work and to a point it did.

Post Jagr, they decided to take some of what they luckily or skillfully drafted (depending on ones theory), and package it up and trade it for Nash. That too worked to a point but it was never enough to really put them over the top, so the renting started to get more aggressive and the UFA signing continued until even this past summer.

Things have changed a bit but there are signs that thinking is still alive and well. They know if they sign a well known UFA it will boost marketability and sales before the season starts. It still sells hope, perhaps even to themselves. They still seem to believe throwing money at holes in the line-up will some how fill them. Since that is now not getting the desired results, here they are today, they tried to take the shortcuts again this summer, it failed. The only reason they are even likely selling, in my mind, is because they are not in wildcard position.

I hope the faith that is being bestowed upon Gorton is well placed, I really do, however I am not so sure he is not just taking ideas from several prominent member within the hierarchy of the organization and playing them out. If that is the case, and he is not acting autonomously, I suspect the same former ideas and shortcuts will show through. Yet if he is acting autonomously, there have been enough mistakes made that do not give me a ton of faith in him either.

I really hope they pick a long term direction based on draft and development, they make smart trades and signings, yet until I see it, I myself at least, am going to have trouble putting much faith into the management of this organization.