Boo Birds

[indigobuffalo]

I'm legitimately curious why you think that. Because, yes, if the team performed very well, but lost, then I can totally see why you'd be like why are you booing, why are you even angry because you look at the entire body of work.

But if the team shows up, dominates for 5 minutes and get a 3-2 lead, and then plays really , really poorly, (like defensive play, not there, great chances, not there, just the level of effort and anything out there), that the performance that night - just poor decisions, poor effort, etc etc, should have been a collective "at least we're 7 games over .500"?

I get the 'don't boo' if it's just a tough period.
I get the 'don't boo' if it's a tough fought out battle and we lost
I get the 'don't boo' if it is one of those games where everything was just going in and we happened to lose

but i'm curious why if the performance on the ice is legitimately not good, why a person shouldn't boo? is it simply because the team is doing well, we shouldn't boo, or only if the record is indicative of being boo worthy?

Because a fan should be a fan, not an anti-fan.

People are so up-in-arms about the on-ice performance of the team on a particular night. If we were winning all our games 10-0 then lost the last game of the season 5-1 we should boo? That's insane.

So if I take my son to go see his first hockey game and the team plays poorly, his first memory of a Leaf game gets to be ruined by fan politics? He's not allowed to be excited about attending a game, a mother effing GAME, that's meant to be entertainment, and not life/death or some abstract dispute over freedom of speech and what that even means...

Why can't people just be excited about seeing a hockey game anymore? It has to be about whether a person has the right to behave like a spoiled two-year-old throwing a tantrum, all in the name of "voicing their opinion".

As a fan, I'm embarrassed by it. As a parent, I'm disgusted people think they've got some God-given right to make a scene and embarrass the organization they purport to be a "fan" of.

There is no viable excuse for it.

It's just rude and disgusting and a terrible example/standard to set for ourselves and for those that will come after us.

Anywhere else it's considered classless.

If I don't want to end up on YouTube as some "freak" I can't go into a McDonald's after they eff my order up and freak out on the manager, and chuck my the Big Mac that was supposed to be a Double Big Mac at the sandwich station clerk's head and pour my soda on the register.

Why do we think it's okay to yell at the players/coaches and throw jerseys and debris on the ice?

Maybe people should start throwing sandwiches at McDonalds, in the name of freedom of speech. Oh wait, I guess McDonalds employees are paid too little?

Okay, so I will go to McDonalds HQ and chuck my sandwich at the CEO and tell him he doesn't know what he's doing because someone in Winnipeg didn't understand me when I said the word "double"...

 

[Daisy Jane]

Agree to disagree. Every fanbase, particularly one as big as ours, has its share of jackasses. It still doesn't change the fact that the Leafs are the best supported team in the sport. Only the Habs even come close. It's not even sheer numbers, but the way the city lives and breathes hockey. Of course 90% of our fanbase is insane, but it doesn't mean the product hasn't sucked for a decade.

that's the way i see it. actually, I'll even correct you here brandonholmes: it doesn't help that our product isn't consistent. I think if we were just bad - like we've hit the bottom and trending upwards, it would be one thing. If we were good, and just won 3 games, lost 1 game, won 2 games, lost 3 in overtime/shootouts, it would be another thing. If we were just GOOD you can argue something else.

For the past five year the swings of this team has been so one way or the other. so 'yay! we're doing great!" then. WHAM. or we're Edmonton/Buffalo bad, then all of a sudden, WHAM! we're like the best team in the league. if the swings were more steady... (shrug)

as well as: Bigger fanbase = Bigger amount of cranky idiotic people that regardless of what happens they'll be cranky idiotic people.

I remember a tonne of Chicago Blackhawk fans who wanted to jettison Keith and Seabrook out the nearest airlock. Let's not ignore the racist Bruins Fans, or those who beat up that one Leaf fan (who needed to be in the hospital). Montreal Fans (at least the ones on my facebook) want to fire Therrian everytime they lose. it really makes me wonder why Leaf Fans get lambasted for something that other fans do all the time... but, (shrug).

 

[Daisy Jane]

Because a fan should be a fan, not an anti-fan.

People are so up-in-arms about the on-ice performance of the team on a particular night. If we were winning all our games 10-0 then lost the last game of the season 5-1 we should boo? That's insane.

So if I take my son to go see his first hockey game and the team plays poorly, his first memory of a Leaf game gets to be ruined by fan politics? He's not allowed to be excited about attending a game, a mother effing GAME, that's meant to be entertainment, and not life/death or some abstract dispute over freedom of speech and what that even means...

Why can't people just be excited about seeing a hockey game anymore? It has to be about whether a person has the right to behave like a spoiled two-year-old throwing a tantrum, all in the name of "voicing their opinion".

As a fan, I'm embarrassed by it. As a parent, I'm disgusted people think they've got some God-given right to make a scene and embarrass the organization they purport to be a "fan" of. There is no viable excuse for it.

It's just rude and disgusting and a terrible example/standard to set for ourselves and for those that will come after us. Anywhere else it's considered classless.

If I don't want to end up on YouTube as some "freak" I can't go into a McDonald's after they eff my order up and freak out on the manager, and chuck my the Big Mac that was supposed to be a Double Big Mac at the sandwich station clerk's head and pour my soda on the register.

Why do we think it's okay to yell at the players/coaches and throw jerseys and debris on the ice? Maybe people should start throwing sandwiches at McDonalds, in the name of freedom of speech. Oh wait, I guess McDonalds employees are paid too little?

Okay, so I will go to McDonalds HQ and chuck my sandwich at the CEO and tell him he doesn't know what he's doing because someone in Winnipeg didn't understand me when I said the word "double"...

lol why do I feel like i just got yelled at? I was just legitimately wondering the other aspect of it and this is a very interesting take.

I personally don't know if you can apply situations ie: your McDonalds analogy to sports. Period. I think sports is a different 'life beast'. (and considering what people are doing now, throwing snakes at Tim Horton employees, and tossing drinks at Chik a Fila's waitresses: idiots, are idiots, regardless at a sporting event, vs. going to a restaurant).

Let's take this into another way. People and media get on the Leafs Fans at why they don't act like 'real fans' and cheer, etc etc. right? and why can't the building be rocking? If I am there to enjoy the game (and if I were lucky enough to go), I would want to sit there. and ENJOY THE GAME. Enjoying the game for me isn't cheering for 2 hours making noise. It's going there and watching the game involved. If there's goal, i'll fist pump. if there's a a great play or whatever, i'll be ooo).

Someone very easily could have said that 'fan politics' (ie: face painting getting drunk, screaming for 2 hours) could ruin the game for me, just as much as people booing the game as well. right? And I think some could argue that either one is quite categorically part of 'fan experience' or as you stated, "fan politics'

I don't think it's right that people scream and yell players and coaches etc. Just like I don't think it's right that shoppers scream at sales associates and management level. Though - in "real life" if you don't like the sale associate, management you generally ask to talk to the higher up, or you write a letter or something and speak to how much you were not impressed right?

There is no real sports (or any other 'entertainment' spectrum) equivalent: You can't personally ask to speak to management. you can't really display your frustration. hence: sports talk shows, forums, etc. and write your reviews etc. For some people they feel like they have to overly cheer, (or boo).

I don't think it's right or appropriate that people delay the game throwing crap on the ice negatively, just like I don't get why it's okay that people delay the game if someone scored a hat trick. Both equally delay the game. One is okay because it is a celebration and 'rare', but one is bad because it is lack of class and people 'shouldn't do it', but it is still either way, delaying the game, etc.

i can understand why people want to boo. I wouldn't be a person who would boo, but I could see if the effort isn't there (ie: there is no entertainment at all), why people would be angry. on the same side, I can understand why people want to act like complete idiots acting like "a real fan", but I wouldn't be that person either, because you'd want to be there enjoying the game. which - in theory, would be how one would enjoy a movie, or aplay or whatever. mostly in silence. I've been in theaters where people make negative/positive reactions in all of those avenues.

like i said. i was just curious if the play on the ice was purely porous wouldn't people want to react. (the same way when the play on the ice is purely wonderful, people want to react). If people say "you should be a fan" - there is an argument that some people would make that for some being a fan is reacting at both negative and positive things.

but anyway thanks for responding.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Wait...if "we all know" the team isn't good enough, why should we boo Carlye? He is just trying to make the best out of this collection of players that, as you say, we all know is not good enough.

I can't believe there are still people (Leaf "fans" no less!) who think coaching is what is wrong with this team.

I just don't think he is doing a very good job. But maybe no coach can make this team play better.

 

[indigobuffalo]

lol why do I feel like i just got yelled at? I was just legitimately wondering the other aspect of it and this is a very interesting take.

I personally don't know if you can apply situations ie: your McDonalds analogy to sports. Period. I think sports is a different 'life beast'. (and considering what people are doing now, throwing snakes at Tim Horton employees, and tossing drinks at Chik a Fila's waitresses: idiots, are idiots, regardless at a sporting event, vs. going to a restaurant).

Let's take this into another way. People and media get on the Leafs Fans at why they don't act like 'real fans' and cheer, etc etc. right? and why can't the building be rocking? If I am there to enjoy the game (and if I were lucky enough to go), I would want to sit there. and ENJOY THE GAME. Enjoying the game for me isn't cheering for 2 hours making noise. It's going there and watching the game involved. If there's goal, i'll fist pump. if there's a a great play or whatever, i'll be ooo).

Someone very easily could have said that 'fan politics' (ie: face painting getting drunk, screaming for 2 hours) could ruin the game for me, just as much as people booing the game as well. right? And I think some could argue that either one is quite categorically part of 'fan experience' or as you stated, "fan politics'

I don't think it's right that people scream and yell players and coaches etc. Just like I don't think it's right that shoppers scream at sales associates and management level. Though - in "real life" if you don't like the sale associate, management you generally ask to talk to the higher up, or you write a letter or something and speak to how much you were not impressed right?

There is no real sports (or any other 'entertainment' spectrum) equivalent: You can't personally ask to speak to management. you can't really display your frustration. hence: sports talk shows, forums, etc. and write your reviews etc. For some people they feel like they have to overly cheer, (or boo).

I don't think it's right or appropriate that people delay the game throwing crap on the ice negatively, just like I don't get why it's okay that people delay the game if someone scored a hat trick. Both equally delay the game. One is okay because it is a celebration and 'rare', but one is bad because it is lack of class and people 'shouldn't do it', but it is still either way, delaying the game, etc.

i can understand why people want to boo. I wouldn't be a person who would boo, but I could see if the effort isn't there (ie: there is no entertainment at all), why people would be angry. on the same side, I can understand why people want to act like complete idiots acting like "a real fan", but I wouldn't be that person either, because you'd want to be there enjoying the game. which - in theory, would be how one would enjoy a movie, or aplay or whatever. mostly in silence. I've been in theaters where people make negative/positive reactions in all of those avenues.

like i said. i was just curious if the play on the ice was purely porous wouldn't people want to react. (the same way when the play on the ice is purely wonderful, people want to react). If people say "you should be a fan" - there is an argument that some people would make that for some being a fan is reacting at both negative and positive things.

but anyway thanks for responding.

Yeah sorry Daisy the rant was more at the topic in general not at what you were specifically saying...

Anyways, to address some of your points.

First off, what I meant by "fan politics" is this thread discussion. The "politics" of whether it's a "right" to boo or a display of freedom of speech. It's pretty deplorable that yelling at someone for not doing their job well enough to your personal standard is considered a personal human right to some here.

And as for the restaurant vs sporting event analogy, I think it's a fair comparison. You feel one is wrong and the other isn't, that's simply a matter of personal opinion. In terms of forming a coherent logical statement on the matter, it's not clear that there is a difference.

In both cases, you "pay for a product", are "met with dissatisfaction" on the product received, and "act like a two-year-old throwing a temper tantrum" to voice your displeasure.

The expectation for an adult, under the norms of a civilized society, would be to simply take your business elsewhere. If you aren't happy with the Leafs, guess what, you're not forced to be a fan. There are 29 other options within the NHL alone. Not counting the AHL, KHL, OHL, ECHL, WHL, etc, and the non-hockey leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB. There are literally too many options available to ever have a need to return to the unsatisfactory product that is the Maple Leafs.

The people throwing fits and booing should be ashamed and they don't have a "right" to do it. It isn't a protest where you're forced to attend games and buy TML merchandise, or come onto these boards and gripe about the team.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for critical discussion of the team, but to be outlandish and throw jerseys on the ice and boo the team off the ice, there's no place for that.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yeah sorry Daisy the rant was more at the topic in general not at what you were specifically saying...

Anyways, to address some of your points.

First off, what I meant by "fan politics" is this thread discussion. The "politics" of whether it's a "right" to boo or a display of freedom of speech. It's pretty deplorable that yelling at someone for not doing their job well enough to your personal standard is considered a personal human right to some here.

And as for the restaurant vs sporting event analogy, I think it's a fair comparison. You feel one is wrong and the other isn't, that's simply a matter of personal opinion. In terms of forming a coherent logical statement on the matter, it's not clear that there is a difference.

In both cases, you "pay for a product", are "met with dissatisfaction" on the product received, and "act like a two-year-old throwing a temper tantrum" to voice your displeasure.

The expectation for an adult, under the norms of a civilized society, would be to simply take your business elsewhere. If you aren't happy with the Leafs, guess what, you're not forced to be a fan. There are 29 other options within the NHL alone. Not counting the AHL, KHL, OHL, ECHL, WHL, etc, and the non-hockey leagues like NFL, NBA, MLB. There are literally too many options available to ever have a need to return to the unsatisfactory product that is the Maple Leafs.

The people throwing fits and booing should be ashamed and they don't have a "right" to do it. It isn't a protest where you're forced to attend games and buy TML merchandise, or come onto these boards and gripe about the team.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for critical discussion of the team, but to be outlandish and throw jerseys on the ice and boo the team off the ice, there's no place for that.

it's okay. I've had many a post where i just 'went off' then it was like. wait it really wasn't at you.

and you know what. that is very true. (and i have always argued that point - if you are at the point that you can not get one iota of satisfaction, then you should find another team to be a fan of). Even my first post, was more of "the effort deserved a booing" wasn't so much, I would actually go there and boo them it's more of. Like, i guess just sheer disappointment that they didn't try. (and i guess that's where the "passion" trope and the "die-hard" thing starts being flung around).

and not every team is perfect (nor are any other fanbase and we're just the crazy, unstable, dysfunctional ones).

I remember what Shanahan said re: the jersey throwing and the booing, and he said it something akin to - I understand what they're trying to accomplish - but it's not the right way to do it, but they feel it's their only way to get their message across, and I think that's where i'm more of. Like. it's stupid, it's not right, and it shouldn't happen -but I guess i get what they're trying to do. (it doesn't change the fact that they should not be doing it). find another (respectable, tolerated) way to get your message across.

 

[RadekBong]

I go to a ton of games, 2nd last row Purple. The atmosphere can be great, not always. I have sat down below on occasion and don't find the fans much different. Regardless of where you sit there is a fair number who play on their phones, parade non stop for beer/bathroom/smoke/whatever else it is they need to do beside watch the game.

The ones I see there quite often tend to sit and watch, chat to their guest and know when to cheer/boo/ leave their seat.

People can enjoy the game however they like as long as it doesn't disturb me. My biggest peeve is those that wait for the Play to start and then decide it's time to go to wherever it is they go.

Last game i was at i was waiting with about 10 other people by my gate for a stoppage in play to return to my seat; the period had just started and I assume everyone was just coming back from washroom/beer buying. These two chicks who clearly know nothing about hockey or human interaction just push through the line and walk up to their seats like nothing is amiss. Like seriously? Some people are just ****ing stupid / inconsiderate.

 

[RadekBong]

Because a fan should be a fan, not an anti-fan.

People are so up-in-arms about the on-ice performance of the team on a particular night. If we were winning all our games 10-0 then lost the last game of the season 5-1 we should boo? That's insane.

So if I take my son to go see his first hockey game and the team plays poorly, his first memory of a Leaf game gets to be ruined by fan politics? He's not allowed to be excited about attending a game, a mother effing GAME, that's meant to be entertainment, and not life/death or some abstract dispute over freedom of speech and what that even means...

Why can't people just be excited about seeing a hockey game anymore? It has to be about whether a person has the right to behave like a spoiled two-year-old throwing a tantrum, all in the name of "voicing their opinion".

As a fan, I'm embarrassed by it. As a parent, I'm disgusted people think they've got some God-given right to make a scene and embarrass the organization they purport to be a "fan" of.

There is no viable excuse for it.

It's just rude and disgusting and a terrible example/standard to set for ourselves and for those that will come after us.

Anywhere else it's considered classless.

If I don't want to end up on YouTube as some "freak" I can't go into a McDonald's after they eff my order up and freak out on the manager, and chuck my the Big Mac that was supposed to be a Double Big Mac at the sandwich station clerk's head and pour my soda on the register.

Why do we think it's okay to yell at the players/coaches and throw jerseys and debris on the ice?

Maybe people should start throwing sandwiches at McDonalds, in the name of freedom of speech. Oh wait, I guess McDonalds employees are paid too little?

Okay, so I will go to McDonalds HQ and chuck my sandwich at the CEO and tell him he doesn't know what he's doing because someone in Winnipeg didn't understand me when I said the word "double"...

Maybe you should work on parenting instead of just whining like a baby. If you're kid can't have a good time because he feels like he has to act like everyone else that's his problem not mine. I paid my money I will boo if I want. And your analogy is stupid because the leafs don't win 81 games then lose 1 and get booed, they get booed because they've been a laughing stock for the better part of 20 years now.

 

[ACC1224]

Last game i was at i was waiting with about 10 other people by my gate for a stoppage in play to return to my seat; the period had just started and I assume everyone was just coming back from washroom/beer buying. These two chicks who clearly know nothing about hockey or human interaction just push through the line and walk up to their seats like nothing is amiss. Like seriously? Some people are just ****ing stupid / inconsiderate.

The Ushers definately don't enforce the "wait for a stoppage before going to your seats" rule like they use to.

 

[Ace88*]

I'm legitimately curious why you think that. Because, yes, if the team performed very well, but lost, then I can totally see why you'd be like why are you booing, why are you even angry because you look at the entire body of work.

But if the team shows up, dominates for 5 minutes and get a 3-2 lead, and then plays really , really poorly, (like defensive play, not there, great chances, not there, just the level of effort and anything out there), that the performance that night - just poor decisions, poor effort, etc etc, should have been a collective "at least we're 7 games over .500"?

I get the 'don't boo' if it's just a tough period.
I get the 'don't boo' if it's a tough fought out battle and we lost
I get the 'don't boo' if it is one of those games where everything was just going in and we happened to lose

but i'm curious why if the performance on the ice is legitimately not good, why a person shouldn't boo? is it simply because the team is doing well, we shouldn't boo, or only if the record is indicative of being boo worthy?

Indigo absolutely nailed it and is precisely reflective of how i feel.

The Toronto fans are absurd in their entitlement. So many people feel that because we're the biggest team with the biggest fanbase, we're "owed" a competitive team every single year. Well guess what? Pro sports doesn't work like that. At all. Especially in a sport like hockey where the parity means you can be a contender one year and draft top 5 2-3 years later. It's ridiculous. People pay to go to a game where each and every night there is a 50% chance they will win and a 50% chance they will lose. And then they complain incessantly as if the Leafs owed them a win because they were in attendance. It's sickening, like a bunch of grown children who think the candy is theirs for the taking. Newsflash: it's not. Nobody made you spend money on the game. Nobody made you pay for food or beer. If they lose, suck it up and better luck next time, maybe you'll win the coin toss.

We are not owed anything except entertainment for the price of a ticket. People need to realize this and stop tying their mental health to a hockey team.

Agree to disagree. Every fanbase, particularly one as big as ours, has its share of jackasses. It still doesn't change the fact that the Leafs are the best supported team in the sport. Only the Habs even come close. It's not even sheer numbers, but the way the city lives and breathes hockey. Of course 90% of our fanbase is insane, but it doesn't mean the product hasn't sucked for a decade.

No, not agree to disagree. I disagree because you're wrong. The Leafs are the best supported team in the sport? No they're not. Going to games and loudly cussing out the team and booing is not support, let alone best support. Look around, people rip on their own team like a bunch of frothy-mouthed cannibals, waiting for the next bad game to pounce. That's nowhere remotely near "best support." The Leafs are at a charity event or go help around the community and they get a peanut gallery of critics telling them they should be practicing or working out instead. The support for this team is garbage and it falls on you and me and us, the fans.

Maybe you should work on parenting instead of just whining like a baby. If you're kid can't have a good time because he feels like he has to act like everyone else that's his problem not mine. I paid my money I will boo if I want. And your analogy is stupid because the leafs don't win 81 games then lose 1 and get booed, they get booed because they've been a laughing stock for the better part of 20 years now.

Wow. This is really offensive and way offbase. You're seriously going to make a post like this and tell indigo to work on his parenting because he doesn't want his kid to grow up in an atmosphere where acting like a [redacted] is not only okay, but encouraged? Come on dude. Way off base, and you need to apologize. You don't get to judge somebody else's parenting like this.

And having played on sports teams AND worked in restaurants, Indigo's analogy is about as on point as an analogy can get. Kitchens operate more like a team than any other job ive ever had. The kitchen can have an off night or a bang-on night, just like a sports team. People are there to fill roles and get things done with eery similarity to a sports team. You need a good boss to have any kind of success, but even that won't help if you don't have the right people in the right places--both in the kitchen and on a sports team.

People are unbelievably rude and offensive to those they perceive to be serving them, especially if they're spending money. Throwing your jersey on the ice because your team loses is no different in attitude and intent than throwing a snake at an employee because your order is wrong. There's no excuse to behave like small children, and you are flagrantly wrong if you believe otherwise.

Christ, people go to games and spend money with the expectation that they will watch their team win, and then completely forget they're adults if that doesn't happen. The entitlement boggles the mind.

 

[nsleaf]

Because a fan should be a fan, not an anti-fan.

People are so up-in-arms about the on-ice performance of the team on a particular night. If we were winning all our games 10-0 then lost the last game of the season 5-1 we should boo? That's insane.

So if I take my son to go see his first hockey game and the team plays poorly, his first memory of a Leaf game gets to be ruined by fan politics? He's not allowed to be excited about attending a game, a mother effing GAME, that's meant to be entertainment, and not life/death or some abstract dispute over freedom of speech and what that even means...

Why can't people just be excited about seeing a hockey game anymore? It has to be about whether a person has the right to behave like a spoiled two-year-old throwing a tantrum, all in the name of "voicing their opinion".

As a fan, I'm embarrassed by it. As a parent, I'm disgusted people think they've got some God-given right to make a scene and embarrass the organization they purport to be a "fan" of.

There is no viable excuse for it.

It's just rude and disgusting and a terrible example/standard to set for ourselves and for those that will come after us.

Anywhere else it's considered classless.

If I don't want to end up on YouTube as some "freak" I can't go into a McDonald's after they eff my order up and freak out on the manager, and chuck my the Big Mac that was supposed to be a Double Big Mac at the sandwich station clerk's head and pour my soda on the register.

Why do we think it's okay to yell at the players/coaches and throw jerseys and debris on the ice?

Maybe people should start throwing sandwiches at McDonalds, in the name of freedom of speech. Oh wait, I guess McDonalds employees are paid too little?

Okay, so I will go to McDonalds HQ and chuck my sandwich at the CEO and tell him he doesn't know what he's doing because someone in Winnipeg didn't understand me when I said the word "double"...

Can I yell at my TV in the privacy of my home or is that 'rude' as well?
What should a fan do then when the team is underperforming, just sit there and think "oh well at least I am at a hockey game".

 

[indigobuffalo]

Maybe you should work on parenting instead of just whining like a baby. If you're kid can't have a good time because he feels like he has to act like everyone else that's his problem not mine. I paid my money I will boo if I want. And your analogy is stupid because the leafs don't win 81 games then lose 1 and get booed, they get booed because they've been a laughing stock for the better part of 20 years now.

My statement is stupid yet it's guys like Rielly's fault the team has sucked for 20+ years now? Or Winnik who hasn't even been a Leaf for a full season? He's to blame? There isn't a player or probably even a member of the entire organization that's been on board for 20+ years at this point, outside of (possibly) some ACC employees or marketing personnel.

What are we defining by sucking, too? The 2002 through 2004 teams (and would've included 2005 but for the lockout) were elite teams, loaded heavily for Stanley Cup contention. And we had several strong playoff runs from it.

Maybe I've time-warped to the 2020's but that's barely 10 years of "sucking", unless that's sucking too, I dunno...

You can't blame the current roster for previous years' failures.

If that's why you're upset, and you see this current team's struggles as more of the same, guess you missed the part where I said no one is forcing you to attend the game.

Also, ROFLMAO at "need to work on my parenting" because I think my kid should be allowed to enjoy a hockey game without idiots ruining it with idiotic behaviour.

What does that even mean?? Are you saying my expectation that people should be able to act like rational, thinking adults is somehow an indictment against my parenting?

 

[ironhorse384]

I think its really boils down to effort. If the leafs got beat but they outplayed and outshot the flyers would people be booing? I don't think so, its a case of goalie having a good game but the effort was there. That wasn't the case on Saturday, they played like they wanted to just get the game over with because they had something better to do.The fact is they're a lazy hockey team. They don't bring every night with the exception of few players in the lineup. If they don't want people to boo then play hard. Its not cheap to go to a game when you factor in ticket prices, parking, and concessions.Hockey is entertainment and people will get angry if they're not entertained.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Can I yell at my TV in the privacy of my home or is that 'rude' as well?
What should a fan do then when the team is underperforming, just sit there and think "oh well at least I am at a hockey game".

Is that really that absurd of a concept?

And again, the answer is don't continue to buy a product you think isn't worth buying.

Seriously. If you have criticism you want to discuss, then come on down to HF boards or various other forums of public discourse and see how your views measure up to those of others. But booing is just meant to embarrass the team and insult them.

Aside from the obvious problems with this in terms of psychological effect, it's just not a way to achieve the goal that people want it to.

As for yelling at your TV, you can do whatever you want in your own home, within reason, but I would say you should be concerned with your behaviour if you're doing it in front of children because it sets a bad standard of conduct, and if you do it in front of friends, they might think you're a rude jerk, unless they're of the same mind as you, though popular opinion isn't a model for what is right and what isn't.

 

[ACC1224]

I think for the most part those that boo go to one or two games a year and just do it out of frustration because it didn't turn out like they had hoped.

 

[8816 others]

Most kids idolize players and strive to be like them, not the fans in the seats next to them. If the players are putting on a piss poor effort on the ice, playing like they don't even care (which is how most Leaf losses have gone lately), i'd be more concerned with the message that is sending to my kids than the influence of any justifiably upset fans nearby.

 

[Ace88*]

Most kids idolize players and strive to be like them, not the fans in the seats next to them. If the players are putting on a piss poor effort on the ice, playing like they don't even care (which is how most Leaf losses have gone lately), i'd be more concerned with the message that is sending to my kids than the influence of any justifiably upset fans nearby.

so you'd rather your kids learn how to publicly conduct themselves from drunk hooligans than pro athletes? what is this world coming to.

 

[8816 others]

so you'd rather your kids learn how to publicly conduct themselves from drunk hooligans than pro athletes? what is this world coming to.

Yes Zack Kassian, that's exactly what I was saying

 

[Ace88*]

Yes Zack Kassian, that's exactly what I was saying

sounds like you're making excuses for being a poor role model for your kids then.

 

[charliolemieux]

How do I throw a jersey at this thread?

 

[Wendigo]

Boo-ing has been a part of sport fandom since fans have been around. I'm sorry but if you don't realize that and want to shelter your kids from *GASP* boos, perhaps take him or her to the opera next time. Boo-ing does not make one a hooligan by the way, the implication is absurd. If you want to invoke some sort of civil decay because someone boos, then I'd take exception at someone trying to tell me I couldn't boo, as is my right. If you don't like booing, don't watch sports. Get over yourselves.

 

[Morning Dart]

No, not agree to disagree. I disagree because you're wrong. The Leafs are the best supported team in the sport? No they're not. Going to games and loudly cussing out the team and booing is not support, let alone best support. Look around, people rip on their own team like a bunch of frothy-mouthed cannibals, waiting for the next bad game to pounce. That's nowhere remotely near "best support." The Leafs are at a charity event or go help around the community and they get a peanut gallery of critics telling them they should be practicing or working out instead. The support for this team is garbage and it falls on you and me and us, the fans.

Look man, I've been a long time lurker here and I respect your opinions, specifically around prospects. But really? You think the same crap doesn't happen in Montreal, or Boston? How about New York? A large contingent of Habs fans call for Therrien's head every time they lose, irrespective of the fact he brought them to the Conference Finals last season. I can understand that some fans act in ways you don't like, but the fact is, the Leafs are one of the best supported teams in this league, if not the best.

You've got your teams in markets that don't care. The Arizona, Florida types who have to give away tickets with large pizzas just to get to half capacity. They probably don't have near as much arguing about the Coyotes or Panthers that we do, but that's probably because 95% doesn't give a damn what happens on the ice. You can't possibly say those teams have better support than the Leafs.

How about those teams with sell-out crowds that were brought on by long periods of sustained success? The Penguins are great example. Can't sell a seat, all of the sudden the best player of his generation comes to town and they're a rabid fanbase? The Bruins had this problem to a lesser extent, all in the great American sports town, Boston. Those rinks are full now, but those teams have also accounted for 4 SC Final appearances in the last 6 years.

Then, there's the Canadian markets. We don't have a heck of a lot going on. Toronto holds the only non-hockey "big 4" franchises in the country. It's hockey. With the exception of Ottawa, these 6 are probably some of the best supported teams in the NHL, regardless of market size or team success. Not a single one of these teams has a Cup in 20 years. The Oilers have been awful for what, 8 now? But these rinks are sold out, there's radio chatter, huge online presence, etc. With that, comes the unpleasant side of having a huge, diehard fanbase. The bickering, booing, tossing jersies. And yet, every night without fail, the rink is full.

There are few teams in this league that can compare to the Leafs. I can respect if you have another choice, but the list is small; Leafs, Habs, Canucks, Flyers maybe? I hate a lot of this fanbase and its stupidity is astounding sometimes. But I know for every idiot, there's a respectable, diehard fan that just wants this team to be competitive. Yes, it's a lottery. There's also a lot of things that were intentional, stupid moves by management. It's the attitude of being able to build a contender just because we're the Leafs. Recklessly abusing cap space. Trading away high picks and prospects. Total clowns running this organization from Harold Ballard to MLSE. If some people (who I am not apart of) want to boo that, so be it. For every one of them, there's a hundred more that just want to see this team win one way or the other. They may do some stuff I don't agree with, they may be unrealistic and entitled, but it's not representative of an entire fanbase.

So yeah, agree to disagree or not, I'm not going to start a flame war when we obviously have different ideas. I like you and think you have a lot of valuable stuff to say, I'm not about to start a war over something so petty.

 

[8816 others]

sounds like you're making excuses for being a poor role model for your kids then.

Booooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Ace88*]

Look man, I've been a long time lurker here and I respect your opinions, specifically around prospects. But really? You think the same crap doesn't happen in Montreal, or Boston? How about New York? A large contingent of Habs fans call for Therrien's head every time they lose, irrespective of the fact he brought them to the Conference Finals last season. I can understand that some fans act in ways you don't like, but the fact is, the Leafs are one of the best supported teams in this league, if not the best.

You've got your teams in markets that don't care. The Arizona, Florida types who have to give away tickets with large pizzas just to get to half capacity. They probably don't have near as much arguing about the Coyotes or Panthers that we do, but that's probably because 95% doesn't give a damn what happens on the ice. You can't possibly say those teams have better support than the Leafs.

How about those teams with sell-out crowds that were brought on by long periods of sustained success? The Penguins are great example. Can't sell a seat, all of the sudden the best player of his generation comes to town and they're a rabid fanbase? The Bruins had this problem to a lesser extent, all in the great American sports town, Boston. Those rinks are full now, but those teams have also accounted for 4 SC Final appearances in the last 6 years.

Then, there's the Canadian markets. We don't have a heck of a lot going on. Toronto holds the only non-hockey "big 4" franchises in the country. It's hockey. With the exception of Ottawa, these 6 are probably some of the best supported teams in the NHL, regardless of market size or team success. Not a single one of these teams has a Cup in 20 years. The Oilers have been awful for what, 8 now? But these rinks are sold out, there's radio chatter, huge online presence, etc. With that, comes the unpleasant side of having a huge, diehard fanbase. The bickering, booing, tossing jersies. And yet, every night without fail, the rink is full.

There are few teams in this league that can compare to the Leafs. I can respect if you have another choice, but the list is small; Leafs, Habs, Canucks, Flyers maybe? I hate a lot of this fanbase and its stupidity is astounding sometimes. But I know for every idiot, there's a respectable, diehard fan that just wants this team to be competitive. Yes, it's a lottery. There's also a lot of things that were intentional, stupid moves by management. It's the attitude of being able to build a contender just because we're the Leafs. Recklessly abusing cap space. Trading away high picks and prospects. Total clowns running this organization from Harold Ballard to MLSE. If some people (who I am not apart of) want to boo that, so be it. For every one of them, there's a hundred more that just want to see this team win one way or the other. They may do some stuff I don't agree with, they may be unrealistic and entitled, but it's not representative of an entire fanbase.

So yeah, agree to disagree or not, I'm not going to start a flame war when we obviously have different ideas. I like you and think you have a lot of valuable stuff to say, I'm not about to start a war over something so petty.

Fine, but the error you're making is believing number fans = quality of support. That is so far from the truth.

Look at the Coyotes. Yes, they have terrible attendance, because not a lot of people care for hockey in Arizona. But they have fought tooth and nail and almost committed economic seppuku to keep that team there. THAT is great support. Not the number of butts in the seats. It goes way beyond that.

 

[Wendigo]

Fine, but the error you're making is believing number fans = quality of support. That is so far from the truth.

Look at the Coyotes. Yes, they have terrible attendance, because not a lot of people care for hockey in Arizona. But they have fought tooth and nail and almost committed economic seppuku to keep that team there. THAT is great support. Not the number of butts in the seats. It goes way beyond that.

Gary Bettman must be one of said fans.