Bobby Ryan

[Very Stable Genius]

That's a given, you couldn't afford to pay him at the average NHL salary.

Being serious for a second, if you don't think Ryan is worth $7M+ what would do you think is value is and what would you offer Spezza on a new deal?

Ryan (age 26) 22G 22A 44P +9 Avg 14:08 ES TOI/G
Spez (age 30) 16G 31A 47P -24 Avg 14:13 ES TOI/G

Of course its not me, in a perfect world I'd give Ryan 6M tops, Spezza 6.5M. Ryan doesn't do enough in other areas to demand 7M+ in my opinion and Spezza has regressed. They could get more on the open market, but they don't deserve it.

 

[operasen]

.....this is concerning.....players turning on macwalruss??

More the system I think. Clouston did the same.

Mac needs to set his lines early next year and give them time to figure it out.

For me, the biggest issue was the constant need of finding someone to play with Spezza - it seems impossible to find within the team and we have tried without.

Draft is the time to trade Spezza, get a ROR type of return (hopefully) and move on. We are really one bodyt away from having one of the deepest pools down the middle with Turris, Zibanejad, Smith, Lazar, Pageau and maybe DaCosta. OReilley would set that right up.

 

[Proust*]

I don't think it's overlooked at all.

He was a world-beater the first half of the season. Since the Olympic announcement he has almost completely disappeared. He has not been earning extra icetime.

As he did in Anaheim, Bobby Ryan completely disappears for large stretches at a time. Why are we all surprised?

He will get hot again at some point and end the season around 60 points, which is the kind of production he has put up his whole career.

The problem is that fans got super horny for Spezza and Ryan to turn each other into 90pt players, and that is not happening.

It really looks like his conditioning could use some work in the offseason.

While I don't think Ryan will re-sign (long winter + Paul Maclean), it would be a huge mistake for the team to not make the attempt. There is very little pure offensive skill up-front right now, and no obvious sources in the pipeline.

Let's all hope Murray can deal Spezza for good young talent and keep Ryan.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

I consider James Neal, Pacioretty, Sharp and Landeskog comparables to Ryan and they all make at/under 6M on long term deals.

 

[YNWA14]

That's a given, you couldn't afford to pay him at the average NHL salary.

Being serious for a second, if you don't think Ryan is worth $7M+ what would do you think is value is and what would you offer Spezza on a new deal?

Ryan (age 26) 22G 22A 44P +9 Avg 14:08 ES TOI/G
Spez (age 30) 16G 31A 47P -24 Avg 14:13 ES TOI/G

Spezza is also coming off major surgery and 3 separate major injuries. He's not only a better player now; he's a much better player when fully healthy.

As he did in Anaheim, Bobby Ryan completely disappears for large stretches at a time. Why are we all surprised?

Let's all hope Murray can deal Spezza for good young talent and keep Ryan.

I'm not surprised; I was just pointing out that if he's *****ing about his ice-time that he only has himself to blame. He hasn't been producing and he hasn't been playing that well.

Would rather keep Spezza than Ryan. Spezza is simply a better player, and when fully healthy a much better player.

I consider James Neal, Pacioretty, Sharp and Landeskog comparables to Ryan and they all make at/under 6M on long term deals.

I would take every one of those players over Ryan (not that Ryan is a bad player; just saying that those guys are better).

 

[Proust*]

Spezza than Ryan. Spezza is simply a better player, and when fully healthy a much better player.

Not surprising that you would, but it's the wrong decision. Ryan is 26 and could get better. Spezza is a depreciating asset that represents a culture we are trying to shift.

 

[YNWA14]

Not surprising that you would, but it's the wrong decision. Ryan is 26 and could get better. Spezza is a depreciating asset that represents a culture we are trying to shift.

Who is we?

Ryan will never be as good as Spezza.

 

[Benjamin]

As he did in Anaheim, Bobby Ryan completely disappears for large stretches at a time. Why are we all surprised?

He will get hot again at some point and end the season around 60 points, which is the kind of production he has put up his whole career.

The problem is that fans got super horny for Spezza and Ryan to turn each other into 90pt players, and that is not happening.

It really looks like his conditioning could use some work in the offseason.

Ryan has been playing injured since sometime in December. Maclean mentioned it during the Olympics and there has been multiple rumours that he needs surgery. Dudes playing in pain. Same thing with what Spezza was doing in the first half.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

.....this is concerning.....players turning on macwalruss??

It is if that is truly the case.

IMO the short sound byte from Ryan shouldn't be interpreted as a one of, he most likely isn't the only player frustrated and maybe we just got a glimpse of why this team is failing to compete.

It is apparent the players maybe tired of MacLean saying one thing and doing another. Possibly Conacher being waived has brought the situation to a head, only the players know for sure.

Personally I am tired of the veterans first approach being used by MacLean, which has been largely responsible for all the line combinations and players sitting.

The veterans on this team are supposed to be leading, they shouldn't need any slack, nor should they require the level of attention being given them in an attempt to get them performing.

This team has missed it formal leadership group through injuries at various times this season, interestingly each time the team performed better in their absence.

Makes me wonder why the kids are the ones bounced around to the degree they have been, just makes little sense.

Coaches can lose the confidence of the room pretty quickly by not applying the demands equally or fairly. Publicly stating the best players play, then turning a blind eye to poor performances by his selected leadership group is a sure way to create issues.

Obviously there is something seriously wrong in the dressing room, seldom does a team competing for a playoff spot just not show up for 4 of 5 games.

Hopefully the group has found a constructive way to talk through whatever is wrong and we will see improvement in Winnipeg.

If not Murray will be faced with more difficult decisions.

 

[Proust*]

Who is we?

Ryan will never be as good as Spezza.

We = everyone but you

Spezza is a depreciating asset. He's not a 90 pt centre with decent defensive ability anymore. So yes, at point in the near future, Ryan will be as good as Spezza.

 

[SilverSeven]

Ryan is no Spezza.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Of course its not me, in a perfect world I'd give Ryan 6M tops, Spezza 6.5M. Ryan doesn't do enough in other areas to demand 7M+ in my opinion and Spezza has regressed. They could get more on the open market, but they don't deserve it.

Appreciate you answering the question, since all I have seen is people suggesting Spezza is better.

I believe $6 - $6.5M is fair for Ryan, probably because I think he does play a 200' game and competes at both ends of the ice. I also believe his presence has had a been a big factor in Turris and MacArthur's production.

Ideally he would be a little faster but he definitely skates well enough.

Production isn't a one player stat and there are other factors that players can't control.

First, Turris went through a spell where he wasn't playing his best hockey and MacArthur also had a 10 game scoring drought. Both of these things occurred over the period where Ryan's production slowed.

Secondly, this team takes too many penalties, this has a tremendous impact on the TOI of a player like Ryan, subsequently his production falls.

The line's struggles were probably the reason Ryan was moved to play with Zibanejad, where Ryan looked just fine.

Spezza is probably worth similar money IMO, he has undeniable offensive talent but when the Senators don't have the puck he is not very good at all.

If the Senators are going to add more veteran players to the top six, players that are responsible and have offensive skill, then I believe BM should offer him a deal in the $6M range.

However if the organization is committed to going with youth, then BM should trade Spezza for a young center that has a more complete game, knowingly sacrificing some offensive talent.

Spezza and whatever wingers assigned to play with him will have difficulty being plus players unless Spezza is in the 70 - 80 point range. I just don't believe he will attain those number playing with inexperienced players, he never has so why should BM expect it now.

 

[Busboy]

I consider James Neal, Pacioretty, Sharp and Landeskog comparables to Ryan and they all make at/under 6M on long term deals.

Comparing RFA contracts to UFA contacts does not make sense.

Ryan will be signing his new contract within a year of becoming a UFA or after if we don't re-sign him.

This gives him a lot more bargaining power, especially when compared to 21 year olds who are half a decade away from being UFA.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Comparing RFA contracts to UFA contacts does not make sense.

Ryan will be signing his new contract within a year of becoming a UFA or after if we don't re-sign him.

This gives him a lot more bargaining power, especially when compared to 21 year olds who are half a decade away from being UFA.

Then we should deal him, IMO we can't afford to overpay for non-elite players when we have a tight budget. Ryan is a great player, but we can't have him disappear/float for half the season like he has done throughout his career for 7M+. We are already paying for it next year when Greening's contract kicks in.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Ryan is no Spezza.

100% agree they are different players, it could just as easily be said Spezza is no Ryan.

The question for BM/PM is does Ryan and/or Spezza fit the Senators team structure, the coach's system and the incoming prospects style of play.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Then we should deal him, IMO we can't afford to overpay for non-elite players when we have a tight budget. Ryan is a great player, but we can't have him disappear/float for half the season like he has done throughout his career for 7M+. We are already paying for it next year when Greening's contract kicks in.

Greening's contract has ZERO to do with signing Ryan or Spezza.

Ryan hasn't floated, he works hard every game at both ends of the ice.

The floater category belong to Jason, without the puck he rarely does much other than watch.

Is that being hard on Jason, maybe, but he is the captain and shouldn't need to be given slack.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We = everyone but you

Spezza is a depreciating asset. He's not a 90 pt centre with decent defensive ability anymore. So yes, at point in the near future, Ryan will be as good as Spezza.

Actually, I think your opinion is in the minority here. You should stop now before you start getting called out...

Too late...

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Actually, I think your opinion is in the minority here. You should stop now before you start getting called out...

Too late...

Being in the minority here, even with sound reasoning, isn't a rare occurrence.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Being in the minority here, even with sound reasoning, isn't a rare occurrence.

This is true, I suppose one just needs to be careful when attributing their opinion as representative of the majority.

Nothing wrong with having a minority opinion.

 

[TheOneFootedSauce25]

Spezza is a #1 center. hes having a streaky year coming off of back surgery also his line mates (no matter who they are) have been able to click. The fact that we have 2 #1 centers is so important for a playoff team. murray would be an idiot to trade spezza, zibby has proven that he can play center but he is a year away from being the dominant force that we know he will be. having said that, spezza has superstar skill and shows that he has it. i was at the heritage classic and he was by far the best senator player and probably the best player with the only other possible exception being ryan kesler and he didnt turn it on until really the second. now, macarthur turris ryan is a filthy line that produces. hemsky and spezza looked good and hopefully if they click michaleck can return to to form. at this point trading spezza is a mistake. good centers are few and far between and we have a bunch #playoffhopes...trade spezza somehow for mcdavid or mackinnon... which would never happen so keep him

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Spezza is a #1 center. hes having a streaky year coming off of back surgery also his line mates (no matter who they are) have been able to click. The fact that we have 2 #1 centers is so important for a playoff team. murray would be an idiot to trade spezza, zibby has proven that he can play center but he is a year away from being the dominant force that we know he will be. having said that, spezza has superstar skill and shows that he has it. i was at the heritage classic and he was by far the best senator player and probably the best player with the only other possible exception being ryan kesler and he didnt turn it on until really the second. now, macarthur turris ryan is a filthy line that produces. hemsky and spezza looked good and hopefully if they click michaleck can return to to form. at this point trading spezza is a mistake. good centers are few and far between and we have a bunch #playoffhopes...trade spezza somehow for mcdavid or mackinnon... which would never happen so keep him

IMO the decision to keep or trade Spezza isn't about his obvious talent, it whether his game fits the play style of the team going forward.

Murray hired a coach that wants to play an up tempo possession game, a 200' game.

Not sure Spezza is an ideal fit in that style of play.

 

[Ice-Tray]

IMO the decision to keep or trade Spezza isn't about his obvious talent, it whether his game fits the play style of the team going forward.

Murray hired a coach that wants to play an up tempo possession game, a 200' game.

Not sure Spezza is an ideal fit in that style of play.

Judging by this season, one could argue that no one is an ideal fit for whatever system is being employed.

I think that we need a better system, one that suits the strengths of our best players, not one that no one seems to be able to excel in.

Perhaps a more hybrid brand of hockey. I'm sure McLean will be working on it this summer.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Ryan will never be a healthy spezza.....

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I can see where people are coming from when they say spezza doesn't fit in the sens system, but they cant say ryan does fit in the same breath.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I can see where people are coming from when they say spezza doesn't fit in the sens system, but they cant say ryan does fit in the same breath.

I somewhat agree.

Trade both. One to Philly for Brayden Schenn+ the other for a top 3 defender+