News Article: Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

[HABsurde]

There is too much drama . Either the Habs brass recognize Subban's worth or they don't, there's no sliding up and down the scale based on whether PK plays 24 minutes, 27 minutes or 30 minutes a night.

Mackenzie has said 3 things all correct

1) There are noticeable patterns in the way Therrien plays Subban in recent games
2) Some in the industry have said this may be part of a contract negotiation tactic by the team3) Mackenzie doesn't subscribe to these theories and is a big fan of PK

Point 2 is ridiculous, as a team would underplay is best assets to make sure he makes less money in the end instead of winning hockey games, making playoff and making more money for the team by doing so...

A coach that may lose more game by doing what is imply may be losing his job in the long run, would, in all sanity, do that??? That would be more than dumb and as much as people may not like Therrien, give a break on the crazyness....

That strategy could only really work if you're definetly planning on going to arbitration what neither Bergevin or Therrien could be planning in their right mind....

 

[BLONG7]

There is too much drama . Either the Habs brass recognize Subban's worth or they don't, there's no sliding up and down the scale based on whether PK plays 24 minutes, 27 minutes or 30 minutes a night.

Mackenzie has said 3 things all correct

1) There are noticeable patterns in the way Therrien plays Subban in recent games
2) Some in the industry have said this may be part of a contract negotiation tactic by the team
3) Mackenzie doesn't subscribe to these theories and is a big fan of PK

Very good points!!

 

[Luigi Habs]

theres nothing going on, the media is just overblowing the situation way out of proportion because thats what they do.. you know so they can have ppl watch their ****** segments and all. theyre basically doing what eklund does with 90% of his bs trade rumours, all about getting dem hits

How is it the media blowing things out of proportion when the ****ing Norris winner os benched the last 5 mins of a tied game and never see ice on the PK? And it's not like we have a strong top 4, we have PK and Markov and then a huge drop.

Therrien is an idiot, pure and simple. He's fighting a battle he cannot win, but hey, he's got a plan so don't ask!

 

[Hoople]

The guy posting was just being honest and not doing anything wrong.

Trash comments like that are garbage and completely unnecessary. It just gives the Habs forum a bad reputation.

When a Leafs fan comes to our board and says that the handling of Subban by Therrien is embarrassing, that's all you need to know that he is trolling.

Leafs fans are loving this thread and are hoping that there really is an issue here..........not an embarrassment.

And besides, Kadri is a punk.

 

[HABsurde]

How is it the media blowing things out of proportion when the ****ing Norris winner os benched the last 5 mins of a tied game and never see ice on the PK? And it's not like we have a strong top 4, we have PK and Markov and then a huge drop.

Therrien is an idiot, pure and simple. He's fighting a battle he cannot win, but hey, he's got a plan so don't ask!

i think he manage the Gally's ice time well enough last year that i will give him the benefit of the doubt on the way he manages the situation.... And if his plan is to make PK a better player, he might not be doing it the right way, but i'm all to make a good player even greater

 

[vfactor]

I want to answer to opinion about Therrien 'manages' Subban ice time.

Is the Habs 1st in East with 10 pts on the 8th spot or the Habs just lost 2 games and hold on the 8th place for the moment ?

Is the Habs already qualified for playoff or is battling every game, every point for a spot in it ?

Is Subban playing better every game? Do we see the results of his method? We can say this to other players too. Is Galcheynuk, Eller improving ?

How do you 'manage' your best player in these situations? It's beyond ridiculous to pretend it that way. Show me another team in the NHL in Habs situation and coach 'manage' his best player the same way.

To people who says that Subban is not good in his zone, made mistakes etc. I give you a choice to put Subban or Bouillon on the ice in any situation and you bet your life on it, who you'll pick ? I'll put Subban against any other player on the habs roster and even ...90%+ of the rest of defense man in the league for it.

To say that Subban is a 'risk', especially with the defense we have, in his zone is beyond my comprehension of hockey.

 

[Wats]

all this time i've been hating on karlsson when it's just sen fans..

what a classy guy

How can anyone hate Karlsson. He's a stud and a treat to watch. The people who act as if he's a god of hockey and no one is worthy of being placed near him in a sentence on the other hand...

 

[CanadienShark]

Listen I do not think PK is horrible in his own zone but he is no Alexei Emelin. One D-man gift is offense and the other is defence. PK is still young and he can learn and I am sure he will be good in his own zone some day.....but at the moment he is just ok in the D-zone.

Not true, though. He's gifted in both zones. He has the occasional big error, that is especially magnified because of who he is. Shea Weber has gaffes too. PK is great on both ends of the ice.

 

[penalty shot*]

I want to answer to opinion about Therrien 'manages' Subban ice time.

Is the Habs 1st in East with 10 pts on the 8th spot or the Habs just lost 2 games and hold on the 8th place for the moment ?

Is the Habs already qualified for playoff or is battling every game, every point for a spot in it ?

Is Subban playing better every game? Do we see the results of his method? We can say this to other players too. Is Galcheynuk, Eller improving ?

How do you 'manage' your best player in these situations? It's beyond ridiculous to pretend it that way. Show me another team in the NHL in Habs situation and coach 'manage' his best player the same way.

To people who says that Subban is not good in his zone, made mistakes etc. I give you a choice to put Subban or Bouillon on the ice in any situation and you bet your life on it, who you'll pick ? I'll put Subban against any other player on the habs roster and even ...90%+ of the rest of defense man in the league for it.

To say that Subban is a 'risk', especially with the defense we have, in his zone is beyond my comprehension of hockey.

great post

 

[Andy]

Subban's defensive zone lapses are so overstated that it is becoming extremely annoying to read. He is not any more prone to erring on the ice than any other defenseman on this team, or in the league for that matter. Even Chara in his norris prime was prone to one or two bigg gaffs a game, but it didn't bother anyone because he had this image of the ultimate complete defenseman.

People are still clinging to a false image and narrative of Subban as an offensive defenseman who is high risk and confirm that image by pointing to his errors. But, like I said, he isn't any more prone to errors than other good defensemen in the league. It is just a superficial way to detract from his talent and contributions. And when that justification of that image fails, people invoke his "character" to continue the detraction.

It's sad that people don't see how special of a player Subban is. It's even sadder that the management and coaching staff doesn't either and too fall victim to those false narratives.

 

[Wats]

http://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey/201311/06/01-4707958-therrien-ne-veut-pas-parler-du-temps-de-glace-de-subban.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_257_accueil_POS1

Everybody calm down, Therrien went out of his way to praise Subban's play today, and also said the same thing some others around here have said, basically if we would have had 1 less PK and 1 more PP, Subban would have played his normal 23-25 minutes.

In other words, someone told MT to tone down the hate on Subban after the media started to catch on putting it as front page news. No way it's a coincidence that the first times MT says anything good about Subban is after the ****storm. Reactionary response that shows whatever the comments prior were about had nothing to do with Subban's development/coaching tool.

 

[Habsterix*]

Bergevin hasnt been Gm for 82 games and Nil didnt want the job... this place is a madhouse.

Welcome to the Habs' fans panic syndrome.

 

[Andy]

Bergevin hasnt been Gm for 82 games and Nil didnt want the job... this place is a madhouse.

No, but he had two off-seasons to improve the roster. After last year's playoffs, it was pretty evident what the team needed...a stable minute-eating defender and some sandpaper on the top 9's right wing. Instead he went to acquire a bottom-pairing D-man at the twilight of his career and Daniel Briere who is a redundant piece in the lineup.

Add his inability to see the contributions of PK Subban to the team, his performance as a GM thus far as been extremely underwhelming and almost harmful. He's done nothing thus far to improve what is an already solid foundation. A couple of shrewd moves and Bergevin could have this competing. Thus far the majority of his acquisition have been, to put it politely, lackluster.

Right now he's benefiting from a core he inherited, but at some point he's going to have to add pieces to improve what he had considering teams around him are doing so. IMO he's squandering an opportunity to take advantage of a window that has opened to compete by not taking the steps necessary to bring the team to the next level.

 

[CanadienShark]

I said it before and I will say it again... If I were the Islanders I'd offer sheet PK to 11 million per for 8 years. They can afford the picks and have tons of good young players coming up.

Yes it's expensive but PK is 23 and coming into his prime. That's 8 years of hockey from a guy who just might be the best blueliner in the league. They've got Tavares already plus a bunch of youngsters. And 11 million is just rich enough that it might work.

No chance. Zip, zero, none. He would be making something like double the true leader and captain in Tavares is making. Snow doesn't sign such contracts. Literally no chance of this happening for those reasons, but it's just absurd generally, since that would be ~16% of your total cap invested in one good young player. That's assuming the cap goes up too.

 

[CanadienShark]

As someone else said, it's been 8 games since PK took a penalty.

Dude, get off the coach's back. There is no excusing anymore. It's not tough love, it's not love at all. It's dislike. There's no way Therrien actually likes PK for whatever reason.
If he did, if he actually liked the guy, he would have given him all the time in the world to showcase his skills in front of Hitchcock, especially considering he didn't make glaring mistakes yesterday.

It's not even just about PK. So many freaking stupid decisions taken yesterday. It was Cunneyworth level of failure.

Funny thing about his back, as it's located on his ....

 

[ECWHSWI]

How can anyone hate Karlsson. He's a stud and a treat to watch. The people who act as if he's a god of hockey and no one is worthy of being placed near him in a sentence on the other hand...

ironically, you could switch Karlsson's name to Subban and it would still fit.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No chance. Zip, zero, none. He would be making something like double the true leader and captain in Tavares is making. Snow doesn't sign such contracts. Literally no chance of this happening for those reasons, but it's just absurd generally, since that would be ~16% of your total cap invested in one good young player. That's assuming the cap goes up too.

I'd do it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What makes you think so low of PK that he would resort to that level of tactics? I have massive respect for PK and I don't ever see him doing that. PK oozes character. He handled his hold out better and more respectably than any player I can recall in the last 5-10 years.

When you have that much CHARACTER, you don't just lose it. So explain why do you think that lowly of PK?

1. I didn't say he would.
2. His agent is Don Meehan. A shark.
3. The guy has a right to be pissed off after what happened last time.
4. He has a right to be pissed about how he's being handled.
5. PK or Meehan might believe that this is what's happening.

Dude, who knows who said this? All we know is somebody said it to Bobby Mac and he reported it. It certainly wouldn't be a stretch to think it might be Meehan.

LG. again, remember that I am not a Therrien fan. My ifs comments were targeted at all the suppositions being thrown out by the media and people running with those and lending credence to them.

This season of Therrien is way different than last season. And not in our advantage.

And I'm saying is that the team is partially responsible for this. If they want it to stop then they should stop treating PK like he's done something wrong.

It's not all on the fans or the media. The team is responsible for this in large part.

 

[WG]

ironically, you could switch Karlsson's name to Subban and it would still fit.

No. Incorrect.

The posters on what I'll eventually call 'the right side of history' aren't mad that the team isn't rolling over and giving in to all things PK.

It would be refreshing, however, if a guy who is clearly and absolutely our best position player was treated with at least the level of respect accorded 3rd pairing defense like Cube and Murray and not publically ripped like some over-entitled rookie.

Kriss E already called it. Therrien has preached team, team , team, everything is team. Then his best player makes a mistake and he is personally called out. Cripes, Subban made a pinch that ought to have been covered by Eller but that's PK's fault too. So much for the team. Then when Cube and Murray make atrocious gaffes the tone changes. We don't even get the common courtesy of pumping the guy's chances to make Team Canada.

It is patently obvious that in MT's time absorbing the moronic X-rays on Antichambre that it gave him the expectation that PK was some problem child who needed to be put in his place. The public persona of Subban is furthest from that assessment when you consider how hard he works to improve his game and his media comments.

NOBODY is saying the team should just let PK do whatever he wants and that he is all mighty. We do prefer that he get more playing time than Diaz or Gorges and quite a bit more than Boullion, seeing as he's the Norris trophy winner and all, and we would appreciate it if the team didn't seem to be trying to undercut him at every turn.

 

[macavoy]

1. I didn't say he would.
2. His agent is Don Meehan. A shark.
3. The guy has a right to be pissed off after what happened last time.
4. He has a right to be pissed about how he's being handled.
5. PK or Meehan might believe that this is what's happening.

Dude, who knows who said this? All we know is somebody said it to Bobby Mac and he reported it. It certainly wouldn't be a stretch to think it might be Meehan.

And I'm saying is that the team is partially responsible for this. If they want it to stop then they should stop treating PK like he's done something wrong.

It's not all on the fans or the media. The team is responsible for this in large part.

Good job avoiding the real question.


PK has been the most stand up guy, handled all his previous situations like a champ, but all you want to do is insinuate he has no character so you can slam Habs management.

PK would never do that and it disappoints me that PK fans would insinuate that PK would stoop to that level.

 

[groovejuice]

1. I didn't say he would.
2. His agent is Don Meehan. A shark.
3. The guy has a right to be pissed off after what happened last time.
4. He has a right to be pissed about how he's being handled.
5. PK or Meehan might believe that this is what's happening.

Dude, who knows who said this? All we know is somebody said it to Bobby Mac and he reported it. It certainly wouldn't be a stretch to think it might be Meehan.

And I'm saying is that the team is partially responsible for this. If they want it to stop then they should stop treating PK like he's done something wrong.

It's not all on the fans or the media. The team is responsible for this in large part.

That scenario is not impossible, but I don't believe for a second that Bob MacKenzie is naive enough to accept this solely from a player's agent. He would need to have multiple confirmations. There is a reason he is the most trusted Anglo insider...

 

[vokiel]

Read earlier in this thread that a plausible scenario would be Subban electing arbitration. I think not. It'll be Bergevin electing team arbitration to avoid hostile offers before that. Just like Price. Then it's 1 year or 2.. IIRC

 

[groovejuice]

How can anyone hate Karlsson. He's a stud and a treat to watch. The people who act as if he's a god of hockey and no one is worthy of being placed near him in a sentence on the other hand...

Hehe. He's so smart. Now he's leading by far in the unsanctioned but possibly discussed "sportsmanship" category. His manager is a genius.

Plus I'm sure most of you are aware that recently he tweeted a player on another team who suffered a similar laceration.

I like it. Just cynical...

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

ironically, you could switch Karlsson's name to Subban and it would still fit.

That's not irony.

 

[Pitlick*]

Therrien is a fool. Let PK freewheel. When a player is as dynamic as him, you have to live with his mistakes.

And he shows disrespec to #76 by always criticising him in the media.

I enjoy watching PK play, and hate coaches that want to stifle flashy creative players.