Blues Trade Proposals Part XXX

[Dbrownss]

As much as that package is, spektre. You have a good point. Tavares fits the core thats actually capable of winning a cup. Each asset we give up would be a secondary player at best. They wouldn't be critical role players.


Not going to lie....that package would probably get NYI attention regardless of JTs intentions(if he doesn't re sign immediately)

 

[MissouriMook]

I don't think adding additional prospects is going to make the difference between acquiring Tavares or not. It's going to be about the quality of the NHL ready/near-ready assets. If anything, adding more prospects might create problems for NYI in that they have to have the space for the additional contracts.

I think a base deal of Schwartz, Thompson, one of Walman/Dunn, and our 1st in 2017 would be our best starting point for Tavares with an agreed-upon extension. Adding the 2017 WSH 1st and (eventually) other future 1st round picks would be the best way to improve the package. I'm not saying I think it will be good enough to trigger a deal - I think other teams will probably be in a position to offer a more attractive package - but I think adding picks rather than prospects is probably more of an enticement. I think I'd be comfortable offering both 1sts from 2017 and the 1st from 2018 in addition to the player mentioned above, but I'm not sure I'd cut deeper than that.

 

[BleedBlue14]

In my opinion we CANNOT let Reaves/Brodziak walk those two seem to bring alot more to the team than their on ice play (Reaves at least). I think the package to be honest with you is more than enough for the Islanders to accept it. You get Schwartz who is a top 6 winger at worst. You get two top 4 D prospects one being LH and the other being RH who are nearing NHL ready (Schmaltz is for the most part NHL ready. And then a 1st rounder or two. That really isn't a bad trade off from our position due to our strengths.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

I don't think adding additional prospects is going to make the difference between acquiring Tavares or not. It's going to be about the quality of the NHL ready/near-ready assets. If anything, adding more prospects might create problems for NYI in that they have to have the space for the additional contracts.

I think a base deal of Schwartz, Thompson, one of Walman/Dunn, and our 1st in 2017 would be our best starting point for Tavares with an agreed-upon extension. Adding the 2017 WSH 1st and (eventually) other future 1st round picks would be the best way to improve the package. I'm not saying I think it will be good enough to trigger a deal - I think other teams will probably be in a position to offer a more attractive package - but I think adding picks rather than prospects is probably more of an enticement. I think I'd be comfortable offering both 1sts from 2017 and the 1st from 2018 in addition to the player mentioned above, but I'm not sure I'd cut deeper than that.

Wow. 3 1sts, a top forward prospect, a top defensive prospect, and a top-line LWer for 1 guaranteed year of a center. That's really, really bad for us.

We got Wayne freaking Gretzky for Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, a 1st, and a 5th. If one year of Wayne Gretzky, the best player of all time, is not worth selling the farm for, then neither is Johnny Tavares, I'm sorry.

Phil Kessel went for 2 1sts and a 2nd. Your offer is just an absurd, absurd overpayment.

 

[Spektre]

Wow. 3 1sts, a top forward prospect, a top defensive prospect, and a top-line LWer for 1 guaranteed year of a center. That's really, really bad for us.

We got Wayne freaking Gretzky for Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, a 1st, and a 5th. If one year of Wayne Gretzky, the best player of all time, is not worth selling the farm for, then neither is Johnny Tavares, I'm sorry.

Phil Kessel went for 2 1sts and a 2nd. Your offer is just an absurd, absurd overpayment.

Again, the discussed deal with Tavares is with him being signed long term.

 

[MissouriMook]

Wow. 3 1sts, a top forward prospect, a top defensive prospect, and a top-line LWer for 1 guaranteed year of a center. That's really, really bad for us.

We got Wayne freaking Gretzky for Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, a 1st, and a 5th. If one year of Wayne Gretzky, the best player of all time, is not worth selling the farm for, then neither is Johnny Tavares, I'm sorry.

Phil Kessel went for 2 1sts and a 2nd. Your offer is just an absurd, absurd overpayment.

As Spektre points out, the proposal is with an agreed-upon extension. If you assume that we are sending 2017 picks to NYI it has to happen at/before the draft, and JT can't sign an extension until July 1. The deal would be contingent on the Blues and JT agreeing to the terms of an agreement to be signed on July 1.

 

[542365]

Wow. 3 1sts, a top forward prospect, a top defensive prospect, and a top-line LWer for 1 guaranteed year of a center. That's really, really bad for us.

We got Wayne freaking Gretzky for Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif, a 1st, and a 5th. If one year of Wayne Gretzky, the best player of all time, is not worth selling the farm for, then neither is Johnny Tavares, I'm sorry.

Phil Kessel went for 2 1sts and a 2nd. Your offer is just an absurd, absurd overpayment.

Missing a couple of things. One, it wasn't one year of Gretzky, it was like 20 games plus playoffs.

Second, he already stated it was with an agreed upon extension.

I agree that it's far too lofty of an offer, but the Gretzky comparison doesn't really work.

 

[carter333167]

Huge overpayment IMO. I honestly believe Stillman would veto that trade.

Of course, it's 95% likely a mute point b/c Tavares apparently has repeatedly said that we wants to stay in NY. If for some reason he doesn't want to stay in NY, he will probably play out his final contract year ala Stammer.

 

[Majorityof1]

Missing a couple of things. One, it wasn't one year of Gretzky, it was like 20 games plus playoffs.

Second, he already stated it was with an agreed upon extension.

I agree that it's far too lofty of an offer, but the Gretzky comparison doesn't really work.

Add that it was a 35-year old Gretzky who while still undeniably great was not as dominant as he had been and only played three more seasons. Tavares is in his prime. And while prime Tavares may not be better than 35-year old Gretzky, he will definitely play for longer on his next contract. Also, IIRC, I don't think the Blues really had to bid against anyone as Gretzky named his destination and had the clout to make it count. He wanted us or NYR, and the Rangers initially balked at his salary ask for the next contract.

 

[Robb_K]

I think a base deal of Schwartz, Thompson, one of Walman/Dunn, and our 1st in 2017 would be our best starting point for Tavares with an agreed-upon extension. Adding the 2017 WSH 1st and (eventually) other future 1st round picks would be the best way to improve the package.

And Schwartz is now making himself look more valuable, with his current hot streak. He'll finish over 20 goals, and, I hope approach or reach 60 points.

 

[nonzerochance]

Read this article yesterday about how the Lightning and the Blues are still closely scouting one another. While it could be nothing, what do you think it might indicate? The writer seems to think it indicates continued interest in Drouin. Given the discussion on here about our LW depth, I don't think it's that likely to happen, no matter the past rumors.

Could it be Tyler Johnson targeted by the Blues this summer instead? He'd obviously not be as good a get as Tavares, but definitely it'd cost less. I'm thinking this would have to be post-expansion draft. I'm unsure about who TBL projects to protect amongst the skaters and I dunno if the Blues would trade only ED-exempt pieces for TyJo. Acquiring him would also require some good cap management as the Parayko extension should still take priority.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Johnson and Drouin make sense. Drouin has been lining up at RW for Tampa. Spot checking on their GDT, it seems like he's been there all or most of the year based on checking multiple games at beginning, mid, and ending parts of the season.

Any deal is going to be complicated based on salaries because most of the high valued assets, most on each team will command 5m+ for next season. Tampa is a team that I could see having strong interest in our defensive prospects though.

 

[Celtic Note]

Johnson and Drouin make sense. Drouin has been lining up at RW for Tampa. Spot checking on their GDT, it seems like he's been there all or most of the year based on checking multiple games at beginning, mid, and ending parts of the season.

Any deal is going to be complicated based on salaries because most of the high valued assets, most on each team will command 5m+ for next season. Tampa is a team that I could see having strong interest in our defensive prospects though.

Does Drouin makes sense when our greatest need is at center? The Drouin salary would essentially negate a lot of opportunity we have at acquiring a center. Any future trade would require we send back someone with a big salary. That would limit who we could trade with.

 

[DatDude44]

Does Drouin makes sense when our greatest need is at center? The Drouin salary would essentially negate a lot of opportunity we have at acquiring a center. Any future trade would require we send back someone with a big salary. That would limit who we could trade with.

i've seen drouin play center with tampa at times this year. He played it in juniors too when he wasn't with mackinnon. He's no selke winner, but he looked fine. he supported the puck down low in our own zone well. Didn't cheat up the ice on when they gained possession.


fabbri-drouin-tarasenko?? haha

 

[Majorityof1]

Johnson and Drouin make sense. Drouin has been lining up at RW for Tampa. Spot checking on their GDT, it seems like he's been there all or most of the year based on checking multiple games at beginning, mid, and ending parts of the season.

Any deal is going to be complicated based on salaries because most of the high valued assets, most on each team will command 5m+ for next season. Tampa is a team that I could see having strong interest in our defensive prospects though.

What would be TBs incentive to trade Drouin for prospects? I know they are cap crunched, and he is due for a raise, but there are better options to move. He hit 50 points this year (60+pace), and is not at his ceiling. He is still cost-controlled, so they can bridge or go long-term buying out mostly RFA years. Palat and Johnson are also RFAs but with much fewer RFA years. They will be looking for their first big UFA contract. They will cost more than Drouin and provide less output with less untapped potential. Both are very movable for a decent return. So if I am TB, I move one of them (or Killorn) before Drouin. They already moved Filppula, so I'm not sure they need to move more than that.

The window for Drouin was when he hadn't played in the NHL yet and was on the outs with management. Now fences are mended and he is putting up close to 60 points. He may still be attainable, but it will cost more than we would be willing to spend unless there is more drama with management I don't know about. Think what it would cost for us to move Fabbri, if Fabbri scored 50% more than he currently does..

 

[Blueston]

Does Drouin makes sense when our greatest need is at center? The Drouin salary would essentially negate a lot of opportunity we have at acquiring a center. Any future trade would require we send back someone with a big salary. That would limit who we could trade with.

We need more high-end offensive talent more than we need a center. We have lots of 2nd and 3rd line centers already- Berglund, Barbashev, Lehtera (if we can't get rid of him), and Sanders all could fill those roles. Perhaps Tage down the line. Steen could too. What we lack is game-breakers.

While it would be great to get a Tavares, don't see the point in someone like Johnson who hasn't been that good for a few years and will want big $$$.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Does Drouin makes sense when our greatest need is at center? The Drouin salary would essentially negate a lot of opportunity we have at acquiring a center. Any future trade would require we send back someone with a big salary. That would limit who we could trade with.

We have a need at RW and center. Drouin is a proven NHL top 6 RW, and has the potential to be a center. We should be interested in him based purely on his talent, this is a Seguin type situation.

Yes, any trade will require salary. We have some creative ways to move salary without moving one of our high valued guys, so that's where it could get intriguing. It doesn't make much sense for Tampa to be interested in Steen or Schwartz, unless they are truly pulling a Boston and they purely want a style change. That doesn't solve their roster balance or cap problems.

They are looking for defense, but Petro or Parayko shouldn't be on the table. Could they value Edmundson or even Bouwmeester? Do they value Dunn or Walman?

Are we interested in Drouin or Johnson?

For us to take Johnson or Drouin, we'd need to make sure we have at least 5+ million for their extension. Does that mean trimming the fat with Gunnarsson or Lehtera? Moving Bouwmeester and putting faith in Edmundson and Dunn? Moving mid-level productive players in Perron or Berglund? Or exchanging muscle for muscle in the form of a Schwartz or Steen?

We should definitely be interested in Drouin, he fills either the top 6 RW hole or potentially the top 6 center role depending on how we view him. He'd be our 2nd most skilled forward IMO. We also have 2 1st round picks, so we have the ability to make a variety of different packages.

 

[bleedblue1223]

What would be TBs incentive to trade Drouin for prospects? I know they are cap crunched, and he is due for a raise, but there are better options to move. He hit 50 points this year (60+pace), and is not at his ceiling. He is still cost-controlled, so they can bridge or go long-term buying out mostly RFA years. Palat and Johnson are also RFAs but with much fewer RFA years. They will be looking for their first big UFA contract. They will cost more than Drouin and provide less output with less untapped potential. Both are very movable for a decent return. So if I am TB, I move one of them (or Killorn) before Drouin. They already moved Filppula, so I'm not sure they need to move more than that.

The window for Drouin was when he hadn't played in the NHL yet and was on the outs with management. Now fences are mended and he is putting up close to 60 points. He may still be attainable, but it will cost more than we would be willing to spend unless there is more drama with management I don't know about. Think what it would cost for us to move Fabbri, if Fabbri scored 50% more than he currently does..

Yzerman and Cooper both value playing complete games, so I could see it turning into a Seguin type situation.

Tampa is cap crunched, so being interested in prospects is a real possibility. I'm just saying any deal would be interesting in the way it looks because of the cap considerations. It all depends on the motivation of Tampa, and we simply don't know what that is. It's all speculative until a deal actually happens.

 

[Majorityof1]

Yzerman and Cooper both value playing complete games, so I could see it turning into a Seguin type situation.

Tampa is cap crunched, so being interested in prospects is a real possibility. I'm just saying any deal would be interesting in the way it looks because of the cap considerations. It all depends on the motivation of Tampa, and we simply don't know what that is. It's all speculative until a deal actually happens.

Hitch and Armstrong valued the same, but Tarasenko was never in danger of going anywhere. You don't trade young game-breaking offensive talent for peanuts. Do you really think Edmundson even starts to move the needle on Drouin, like at all? What would you have said if we traded a 22 year old Tarasenko for a bottom 4 D?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hitch and Armstrong valued the same, but Tarasenko was never in danger of going anywhere. You don't trade young game-breaking offensive talent for peanuts. Do you really think Edmundson even starts to move the needle on Drouin, like at all? What would you have said if we traded a 22 year old Tarasenko for a bottom 4 D?

Tarasenko didn't have personality clashes with management like Seguin and Drouin had.

Of course I don't, but he's a young, cheap defenseman that is playing top 4 minutes. That's what Tampa is looking for, he'd be a piece in a deal, not the main piece, but a piece that fills a need for them.

Maybe we don't see Fabbri having Drouin upside. Maybe we see Drouin as a center and we don't see that in Fabbri. Maybe Fabbri+Edmundson for Drouin is a deal that Tampa likes. Obviously Edmundson is a clear secondary piece, but Tampa would definitely value him because he can play the minutes that they are looking to fill, an he'd be cheap.

My point is, we have plenty of pieces that Tampa would have varying degrees of interest in for a variety of different reasons.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

If Drouin can play RW well, then he slots in nicely right behind Tarasenko as 2RW, Perron slots down into 3RW, and a lot of our questions are answered for us.

Schwartz-Stastny-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Barbashev-Drouin
Steen-Berglund-Perron

Leftovers: Sanford, Jaskin, the RFAs Paajarvi and Yakupov, Upshall, Lehtera (really doesn't seem like he's got a spot here right now), Brodziak and Reaver... am I missing anyone?

It depends on what we'll have to give up for Drouin, but I'm in favor of going down that route. People will want to whine about our center depth, but I'm fine with Stastny and Barbashev as 1/2, and Berglund as a very solid 3C. The Fabbri-Barbashev-Drouin line would be incendiary. Paajarvi has chemistry with Barbs, but everything Paajarvi does (and Yakupov), Drouin can do 10x better. Drouin's defense is also very underrated by people who have pigeonholed him as a guy who is one-dimensional; he's really not. That would still leave us with too many left-handed shots (Perron is the only one in the top 9 with a right-handed shot), but if you can get game-breaking skill like Drouin maybe it's worth it.

 

[MissouriMook]

If Drouin can play RW well, then he slots in nicely right behind Tarasenko as 2RW, Perron slots down into 3RW, and a lot of our questions are answered for us.

Schwartz-Stastny-Tarasenko
Fabbri-Barbashev-Drouin
Steen-Berglund-Perron

...

I think if you're acquiring Drouin as a RW, you have to assume that one of Schwartz or Fabbri is going the other way. In that case, I expect you see Perron move back to LW and have something like:

[Schwartz/Fabbri]-Stastny-Tarasenko
Perron-Barbashev-Drouin
Steen-Berglund-[Paajarvi/Sanford/Jaskin]

That still looks awfully thin down the middle, and I don't think we can go into next season expecting Barbashev to function as our 2C. I don't see how Army could be targeting anyone at this point that isn't a center, so either he is targeting Drouin as a center or targeting Tyler Johnson. So more likely:

Steen-Stastny-Tarasenko
[Schwartz/Fabbri]-[Drouin/Johnson]-Berglund
Perron-Barbashev-[Paajarvi/Sanford/Jaskin]

 

[Celtic Note]

We need more high-end offensive talent more than we need a center. We have lots of 2nd and 3rd line centers already- Berglund, Barbashev, Lehtera (if we can't get rid of him), and Sanders all could fill those roles. Perhaps Tage down the line. Steen could too. What we lack is game-breakers.

While it would be great to get a Tavares, don't see the point in someone like Johnson who hasn't been that good for a few years and will want big $$$.

If we add a high end RW, are we then legit Cup contenders?

We have Stastny (who is 31 and very likely to slow down even more, high end #2), Barbie (unproven, looking good, but probably a high end #3) and Berglund (a strong #3). What team has won a Cup with anything like that?

 

[Oberyn]

If we add a high end RW, are we then legit Cup contenders?

We have Stastny (who is 31 and very likely to slow down even more, high end #2), Barbie (unproven, looking good, but probably a high end #3) and Berglund (a strong #3). What team has won a Cup with anything like that?

The 2017 St. Louis Blues

 

[Celtic Note]

We have a need at RW and center. Drouin is a proven NHL top 6 RW, and has the potential to be a center. We should be interested in him based purely on his talent, this is a Seguin type situation.

Yes, any trade will require salary. We have some creative ways to move salary without moving one of our high valued guys, so that's where it could get intriguing. It doesn't make much sense for Tampa to be interested in Steen or Schwartz, unless they are truly pulling a Boston and they purely want a style change. That doesn't solve their roster balance or cap problems.

They are looking for defense, but Petro or Parayko shouldn't be on the table. Could they value Edmundson or even Bouwmeester? Do they value Dunn or Walman?

Are we interested in Drouin or Johnson?

For us to take Johnson or Drouin, we'd need to make sure we have at least 5+ million for their extension. Does that mean trimming the fat with Gunnarsson or Lehtera? Moving Bouwmeester and putting faith in Edmundson and Dunn? Moving mid-level productive players in Perron or Berglund? Or exchanging muscle for muscle in the form of a Schwartz or Steen?

We should definitely be interested in Drouin, he fills either the top 6 RW hole or potentially the top 6 center role depending on how we view him. He'd be our 2nd most skilled forward IMO. We also have 2 1st round picks, so we have the ability to make a variety of different packages.

We have internal fillers at RW. Center is a position where we really don't have anyone.

Look, I would love to bring in Drouin, but if it blocks our chances at getting a center, then I ask if we are better off waiting.

Some are saying he can play center, but with the gaping hole that Tampa had for most of the year, he didn't play there much. To me that raises questions. If the guy can play at the same level at center as he can on the wing, then why not play him in the position of need? Is the same as Fabbri, Schwartz, Oshie, etc. IMO. Their skills do not translate at center don't translate to the NHL as well as they do in wing. You could argue that Fabbri and Drouin haven't had the chance, but I would argue that there are good reasons that they haven't played there much.