Blues Trade Proposals Part Too Many to Count II

[Evocable Manager]

Blues add big. Nylander would instantly become the Blues top forward, and probably their best forward in franchise history. While Petro is good he would be 2nd fiddle to Zaitsev on the right side in a couple years from now when Toronto will be playing in the SC finals.
Look at the last two conn smythe winners, Crosby and Kane. Is it that hard to see that that's where Nylander is headed? Toronto needs to keep him.

Why do I even bother with the main board? This is hysterically disappointing in so many ways.

 

[phxblue]

I really think Tank needs a power forward Center that can clear the ice for him instead of a playmaking one. but, that's just me.

Lol, I was watching some Legion of Doom vidoes on youtube and thought the same thing.

With Lindros taking a full defenders attention, Renberg looked like Tank in a few of the highlights. And Mikael Renberg was no Tarasenko.

That said, would Tank have played with Backes? Did they ever play together? I can't recall anyone ever saying that would should put the two of them together when we had Backes.

 

[phxblue]

I'll worry about defense when we sort the offense.

The problem is that Armstrong has always been lacking with a clear vision of what this team is meant to be, and his ideas are fleeting. It's difficult to get away from the idea that a lot of the roster is just a collection of good players. We have got away with this strategy because our core group were solid two-way guys and that fit in well with Hitch. Now that group is dwindling, our acquisition strategy remains questionable.

The only relief at this point is that any potential panic trade is almost certainly going to involve Shattenkirk; getting any return for him at this point would be a positive with how mismanaged the situation has been. The one thing I trust Armstrong with is not taking a terrible contract in return.

I can somewhat understand people floating the idea of Schwartz. It would be a terrible idea to move him, but with his current play then names are going to get thrown around. I wish we'd have given him another 7-10 days to recover.

One of the points I was making though Alhlha, is that I think the pairing of J-Bo/Petro is one of the reasons for the lack of offense. A solid left point shot, that is accurate and fast could add another weopon to the ice for nearly half the game.

That forces other teams to focus less on the forwards.

Hell, if we put Parayko on the top pairing with Petro (hypothetically) and he started shooting the puck more often, that alone could give a little more time to the Schwartzs, the Tanks, the Perrons and the Fabbris of the lineup. Which could make a big difference.

Could of course, being the key word. Im no expert hockey strategist, but I am smarter than the average Bear. Ey Boo boo.

Anyway, just watching this team, this seems fairly obvious to me, and I never played the game. I imagine anyone with a decent hockey mind is seeing the same.

 

[phxblue]

Should we think trading Fabbri? He has 0 goals this season. I assume his trading value is quite high so might get something out of him.

The talent and effort have been there more often than not. Let's chalk it up to a Sophmore slump / lack of things working for the team overall this point.

I for one think Fabbri will be a far better player than Schwartz when it is all said and done. Especially in important games and in the playoffs. The kid plays his heart out. And I ******* love it.

 

[phxblue]

Parayko and Pietrangelo aren't soft. They play hard games, and use their body as much as they need. Sure they don't crunch people but that isn't needed to be good nowadays. They're our 2 best defender's, and are the most reliable in any situation.
Our LD aren't strong, especially on the offensive side of things. Right now, our centers are a bigger concern. We've gone far with this defense before, we could do it again.
I think anyone on this board would move Schwartz for Draisaitl but that deal isn't available. Our need at center is glaring and bringing in a top 6 center would help majorly. Whether he plays with Tarasenko or not.
Reality is, that just isn't available. One center that could available is Hanzal, he's a decent player but very injury prone. I'd be hesitant to make that move.
We currently possess 5 top 6 players, moving one out probably doesn't help.

I disagree about defensmen not needing to be physical. IMO you don't need ALL of your defensemen to be physical, but you do need balance in your overall defense. 5/6 of our defensemen are not physical, and will not punish you. And to me, that is a major weakness.

Thinking from an opposing team's perspective. If your defense has no meanness. I have nothing to worry about. I can crash your net when I want. I can crush you when I want. I can hit the **** out of you to make you worry everytime you know I'm coming. I can cheapshot you when the refs let me get away with it to. I can make you nervous, or atleast, somewhat throw off your game.

I can bully you.

But, if you have a few mean mother ******** on your d to balance out those skill guys. I know I am in for a battle. I wont take those same liberties, and you hold me in check.

Petro, JBo, Parayko, Gunnarson and Shattenkirk. Collectively, that's perfect for an opposing team. They get to wipe with Charmin Ultrasoft instead of sandpaper.

I see this is a major problem that needs to be corrected.

Yes, the game has changed. You don't have to have 6 Prongers and Darian Hatchers. But if you have 5 of your top 6, ALL playing the same, there is no balance to the D. And that is a problem.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt Detroit had 6 skill d-men. And even though Lidstrom is the epitome of a skill over physicality defenseman, I imagine his team had more physical defensemen on the roster as well.

The more I think about this, the more I think that is a major problem both on D and at Forward, and that is on Armstrong. A lack of balance. Too many of the same type of players.

With the forwards, that is likely because Backes left unexpectly and was replaced with Perron. And Sobotka was replaced with Yakupov. I imagine some moves will be made this season before the playoffs at forward to alleviate this problem (if we are even in line to make the playoffs).

The same can't be said on D though. That **** needs to be fixed.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I disagree about defensmen not needing to be physical. IMO you don't need ALL of your defensemen to be physical, but you do need balance in your overall defense. 5/6 of our defensemen are not physical, and will not punish you. And to me, that is a major weakness.

Thinking from an opposing team's perspective. If your defense has no meanness. I have nothing to worry about. I can crash your net when I want. I can crush you when I want. I can hit the **** out of you to make you worry everytime you know I'm coming. I can cheapshot you when the refs let me get away with it to. I can make you nervous, or atleast, somewhat throw off your game.

I can bully you.

But, if you have a few mean mother ******** on your d to balance out those skill guys. I know I am in for a battle. I wont take those same liberties, and you hold me in check.

Petro, JBo, Parayko, Gunnarson and Shattenkirk. Collectively, that's perfect for an opposing team. They get to wipe with Charmin Ultrasoft instead of sandpaper.

I see this is a major problem that needs to be corrected.

Yes, the game has changed. You don't have to have 6 Prongers and Darian Hatchers. But if you have 5 of your top 6, ALL playing the same, there is no balance to the D. And that is a problem.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt Detroit had 6 skill d-men. And even though Lidstrom is the epitome of a skill over physicality defenseman, I imagine his team had more physical defensemen on the roster as well.

The more I think about this, the more I think that is a major problem both on D and at Forward, and that is on Armstrong. A lack of balance. Too many of the same type of players.

With the forwards, that is likely because Backes left unexpectly and was replaced with Perron. And Sobotka was replaced with Yakupov. I imagine some moves will be made this season before the playoffs at forward to alleviate this problem (if we are even in line to make the playoffs).

The same can't be said on D though. That **** needs to be fixed.

You're misunderstanding my point.
I do and have played hockey, and believe me, you don't have to hit a ton to be feared. If anyone on the Blues is the recipient of a cheap shot, other players will step in and send the message. We aren't getting bullied at all this season.
Wanna look at Pittsburgh's d-core?
Letang, Schultz, Daley, Doumolin, Cole, Lovejoy. Anyone strike you as a big "mean" or "feared" player. No? Well, surely this defensive core could never be good enough for a Stanley cup.
Chicago's from 2015?
Keith, Seabrook, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Rundblad, Timonen, TVR. Seabrook might be considered tough. But he sucks defensively and isn't even that good. Other than that, no real physical players. This defense would never go on a cup run.
How about Tampa, a team who's another favorite this year and had 2 deep runs in a row?
Hedman, Stralman, Garrison, Sustr, Carle, Nesterov. I mean Sustr is probably it in terms of defenseman who play with lot's of physical play.
The game is different. All of our players would get involved if need be, just because they don't smash people with open ice hit's doesn't mean their soft. Soft is a player who refuses to touch anyone and wouldn't help in a scrum. Nobody on the team is soft.
The opposing team has to worry about getting around and figuring out how to solve our defense. Last game, our defense (Shattenkirk specifically) solved himself, which led to the only goal against.
I've seen all of Parayko, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester lay some big hits before, it isn't game to game, but it doesn't need to be.

 

[phxblue]

You're misunderstanding my point.
I do and have played hockey, and believe me, you don't have to hit a ton to be feared. If anyone on the Blues is the recipient of a cheap shot, other players will step in and send the message. We aren't getting bullied at all this season.
Wanna look at Pittsburgh's d-core?
Letang, Schultz, Daley, Doumolin, Cole, Lovejoy. Anyone strike you as a big "mean" or "feared" player. No? Well, surely this defensive core could never be good enough for a Stanley cup.
Chicago's from 2015?
Keith, Seabrook, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Rundblad, Timonen, TVR. Seabrook might be considered tough. But he sucks defensively and isn't even that good. Other than that, no real physical players. This defense would never go on a cup run.
How about Tampa, a team who's another favorite this year and had 2 deep runs in a row?
Hedman, Stralman, Garrison, Sustr, Carle, Nesterov. I mean Sustr is probably it in terms of defenseman who play with lot's of physical play.
The game is different. All of our players would get involved if need be, just because they don't smash people with open ice hit's doesn't mean their soft. Soft is a player who refuses to touch anyone and wouldn't help in a scrum. Nobody on the team is soft.
The opposing team has to worry about getting around and figuring out how to solve our defense. Last game, our defense (Shattenkirk specifically) solved himself, which led to the only goal against.
I've seen all of Parayko, Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo, Gunnarsson and Bouwmeester lay some big hits before, it isn't game to game, but it doesn't need to be.

Good points. You, having played the game should now better than me. I've never played (organized) hockey.

I don't know Pittsburgh's d enough to comment on them. I have seen Stralman throw vicious hits in his highlights though. Didn't Tampa also have another big physical defender when they won the cup? The guy they traded the big hitter to Philly for.

Lol, when did J-Bo throw a big hit? I want to see that!!!

Kieth is notorious for playing dirty, although he isnt big. And Seabrook is big and physical both.

Shatty did nothing to teach Roussel a lesson. Shatty likely would have done more damage giving him a foot massage.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Good points. You, having played the game should now better than me. I've never played (organized) hockey.

I don't know Pittsburgh's d enough to comment on them. I have seen Stralman throw vicious hits in his highlights though. Didn't Tampa also have another big physical defender when they won the cup? The guy they traded the big hitter to Philly for.

Lol, when did J-Bo throw a big hit? I want to see that!!!

Kieth is notorious for playing dirty, although he isnt big. And Seabrook is big and physical both.

Shatty did nothing to teach Roussel a lesson. Shatty likely would have done more damage giving him a foot massage.

Shattenkirk has been a Blue for many years. I've watched him a lot and he can throw the body and keep players honest.
Tampa has Coburn? I'm not sure exactly.

Either way, you get the point. Your earlier point about thr offense has some merit, but it's so early, let's just wait it out for now?

 

[phxblue]

Shattenkirk has been a Blue for many years. I've watched him a lot and he can throw the body and keep players honest.
Tampa has Coburn? I'm not sure exactly.

Either way, you get the point. Your earlier point about thr offense has some merit, but it's so early, let's just wait it out for now?

Well, it's not like we are NHL gms talking here, waiting it out is all we can do.

Yeah, Coburn is who I was thinking of. Not sure if they resigned him or not, I know he was a pending fa.

 

[stl76]

Good points. You, having played the game should now better than me. I've never played (organized) hockey.

I don't know Pittsburgh's d enough to comment on them. I have seen Stralman throw vicious hits in his highlights though. Didn't Tampa also have another big physical defender when they won the cup? The guy they traded the big hitter to Philly for.

Lol, when did J-Bo throw a big hit? I want to see that!!!

Kieth is notorious for playing dirty, although he isnt big. And Seabrook is big and physical both.

Shatty did nothing to teach Roussel a lesson. Shatty likely would have done more damage giving him a foot massage.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Little known fact:
Ken Hitchcock never played hockey, can't skate and doesn't even speak Canadian.

 

[stl76]

Little known fact:
Ken Hitchcock never played hockey, can't skate and doesn't even speak Canadian.

Yeah but hitch is really good at NHL '94 so...



On a serious note, I am interested to see how the Trouba signing impacts the trade market for Shattenkirk.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Well the teams rumored to have interest in Shattenkirk before (BOS, NY, NJ?) probably have a little more interest.
I doubt a move is made. Not unless Armstrong is open to futures.

 

[stl76]

Well the teams rumored to have interest in Shattenkirk before (BOS, NY, NJ?) probably have a little more interest.
I doubt a move is made. Not unless Armstrong is open to futures.

I was thinking more under the assumption that Trouba will likely be traded sooner than later, and the list of teams that would trade for him is probably similar to the one for Shattenkirk. Just my conjecture tho.

 

[542365]

Why do I even bother with the main board? This is hysterically disappointing in so many ways.

Pretty sure the guy is just joking/trolling. Nobody, not even the biggest Leaf homer, truly thinks Nylander is better than Brett Hull. Hell, he's saying Nylander is better than 99 if he's the best forward in our franchise's history He's just being stupid.

 

[Alklha]

I was thinking more under the assumption that Trouba will likely be traded sooner than later, and the list of teams that would trade for him is probably similar to the one for Shattenkirk. Just my conjecture tho.

I'd be shocked if Trouba was traded any time soon. They have him signed to a nice deal, he is a RFA at the end of it and there is a lot of players on the market right now. It makes sense for Winnipeg to sit back and look to trade him at the draft, the market will be returning to normal at that point. They might even decide to wait to 2018, when the price of defensemen might be as high as it normally is.

They have no incentive to move him in the current market.

 

[Alklha]

One of the points I was making though Alhlha, is that I think the pairing of J-Bo/Petro is one of the reasons for the lack of offense. A solid left point shot, that is accurate and fast could add another weopon to the ice for nearly half the game.

That forces other teams to focus less on the forwards.

Hell, if we put Parayko on the top pairing with Petro (hypothetically) and he started shooting the puck more often, that alone could give a little more time to the Schwartzs, the Tanks, the Perrons and the Fabbris of the lineup. Which could make a big difference.

Could of course, being the key word. Im no expert hockey strategist, but I am smarter than the average Bear. Ey Boo boo.

Anyway, just watching this team, this seems fairly obvious to me, and I never played the game. I imagine anyone with a decent hockey mind is seeing the same.

No doubt that offense starts from defense, particularly with this team. However, we're much closer to the appropriate personnel at the back end than we are up front.

We all know that trades are difficult, and while it'd be great to pull off 3 trades to completely refresh the lineup... that's not going to happen. Right now I'd want the focus to be on forwards and then look at the defense in the offseason. We'll have a better understanding on where we are with Schmaltz, and possibly Dunn, at that point.

 

[Renard]

Two years of Shattenkirk is a very valuable commodity if he was traded last off-season. The problem, at least on the surface, appears to be Armstrong refusal to trade for futures. So he backs himself into a corner as it's very hard to make a big name hockey trade happen. Long story short he shoots himself in the foot by artificially limiting his own market.

And if Johansen for Shattenkirk was on the table, Armstrong is an idiot for walking away.

As I recall it, the Blues made inquiries about Johansen's dedication, and came away with doubts about him.

I haven't heard much about Johansen since the trade between Columbus and Nashville. I was just on the Nashville website and saw that Johansen has six points for the year so far, (one goal, five assists) five of the six on the power play.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I think the trade market is pretty skewed right now because of the expansion draft. Teams have to consider protection spots in addition to salary cap. It paralyzes the trade market to a large degree, especially when you potential trade partner can't protect the guy they would otherwise accept in trade.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think the trade market is pretty skewed right now because of the expansion draft. Teams have to consider protection spots in addition to salary cap. It paralyzes the trade market to a large degree, especially when you potential trade partner can't protect the guy they would otherwise accept in trade.

i think trades to balance depth so teams don't loose good players could become a thing.

 

[Ranksu]

I think the trade market is pretty skewed right now because of the expansion draft. Teams have to consider protection spots in addition to salary cap. It paralyzes the trade market to a large degree, especially when you potential trade partner can't protect the guy they would otherwise accept in trade.

Blues are so unlucky. Army is victim of the expansion draft that is the reason he couldn't trade Shattenkirk.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Blues are so unlucky. Army is victim of the expansion draft that is the reason he couldn't trade Shattenkirk.

You can put words in my mouth, or we can all just acknowledge that the draft is an extra factor that impacts the market. If a team takes on Shattenkirk, they will re-sign him and must protect him. But that means that in addition to whatever they send in return, they'll risk losing an additional asset in a now-unprotected player. Its part of the equation.

 

[Stealth JD]

You can put words in my mouth, or we can all just acknowledge that the draft is an extra factor that impacts the market. If a team takes on Shattenkirk, they will re-sign him and must protect him. But that means that in addition to whatever they send in return, they'll risk losing an additional asset in a now-unprotected player. Its part of the equation.

Not if they trade him to Vegas.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Not if they trade him to Vegas.

Actually I think that would potentially be an option if the Blues get to the end of the season. I think, but don't quote me on it, if the Blues were to trade Shattenkirk to Vegas after the season ends he would count as the player they would be taking from us.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Actually I think that would potentially be an option if the Blues get to the end of the season. I think, but don't quote me on it, if the Blues were to trade Shattenkirk to Vegas after the season ends he would count as the player they would be taking from us.

I wonder what players around the league think about the notion of playing for Vegas. I would think it could be kind of fun to be on a team starting out and making history.