Blues Trade Proposals 2020-21

[BlueDream]

What happened with Hoffman? I’m a Florida fan and I’m surprised that you’re not trying to re sign him.

he’s a great shot that can produce on multiple lines?

He doesn’t provide anything other than his shot. Soft, bad defensively, doesn’t seem to compete that hard in puck battles.

The Blues are one of those teams that doesn’t really succeed when trying to play a finesse game. We have to play a certain way to win. And Hoffman doesn’t really fit that style. Plus we have other players to re-sign so we really won’t be able to bring him back.

 

[Xerloris]

What happened with Hoffman? I’m a Florida fan and I’m surprised that you’re not trying to re sign him.

he’s a great shot that can produce on multiple lines?

They decided to put him on the 3rd line with no PP time and then don't know why he doesn't produce

 

[simon IC]

I would be furious if the Blues re-signed Hoffman. But hey, that has been my reaction to a couple of their recent signings, so .

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

They decided to put him on the 3rd line with no PP time and then don't know why he doesn't produce

Just like Stastny.

 

[violaswallet]

They decided to put him on the 3rd line with no PP time and then don't know why he doesn't produce

That’s full blown stupid. Makes more sense!

 

[LGB]

Give me a break, not true at all. He is probably our 3rd-best overall LHD as Scandella is far stronger defensively. I know people like to bash Krug, but if you gave Dunn 22+ minutes a night people would see the difference between the two.

Dunn has averaged over 20 minutes a night since Parayko went out of the lineup. I'm not going to make the argument that he's our best LHD since he isn't driving offense this year like he has in the past, but the whole team has struggled offensively. I would make the argument though that he's a more valuable asset than Scandella or Krug due to age and contract status.

Also, Dunn is perfectly fine defensively. He has some bad plays that stick out, but overall has a slightly positive defensive impact. Even this year he has the lowest xGA/60 in our top 4. Here are the numbers over the last 3 seasons.

18-19

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	49.5	1.98	1.99
Team Avg.	52.7	2.07	2.21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

19-20

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	45.6	2.03	1.89
Team Avg.	49.9	2.16	2.05

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

20-21

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	50.4	2.00	2.57
Team Avg.	52.5	2.15	2.58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ezcreepin]

Dunn has averaged over 20 minutes a night since Parayko went out of the lineup. I'm not going to make the argument that he's our best LHD since he isn't driving offense this year like he has in the past, but the whole team has struggled offensively. I would make the argument though that he's a more valuable asset than Scandella or Krug due to age and contract status.

Also, Dunn is perfectly fine defensively. He has some bad plays that stick out, but overall has a slightly positive defensive impact. Even this year he has the lowest xGA/60 in our top 4. Here are the numbers over the last 3 seasons.

18-19

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	49.5	1.98	1.99
Team Avg.	52.7	2.07	2.21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

19-20

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	45.6	2.03	1.89
Team Avg.	49.9	2.16	2.05

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

20-21

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	50.4	2.00	2.57
Team Avg.	52.5	2.15	2.58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As much as I'd like to give him credit for not being trash defensively, he hasn't necessarily been gifted hard minutes either. His zone usage is insane at 61% starting in the O-zone, and he wasn't really playing with Faulk that much, though he may start to slide into that role since Parayko is back. He's also playing roughly 9.5% of his ice time on the powerplay and has 3 minutes on the pk, ironically 7 minutes less than Walman. Dunn is a prototypical sheltered defenseman whereas a guy like Shattenkirk, for all his faults, at least contributed both on the powerplay and pk. He spent roughly 10-11% of his ice time on the pk while still being a huge contributor in the departments you've mentioned.

 

[LGB]

As much as I'd like to give him credit for not being trash defensively, he hasn't necessarily been gifted hard minutes either. His zone usage is insane at 61% starting in the O-zone, and he wasn't really playing with Faulk that much, though he may start to slide into that role since Parayko is back. He's also playing roughly 9.5% of his ice time on the powerplay and has 3 minutes on the pk, ironically 7 minutes less than Walman. Dunn is a prototypical sheltered defenseman whereas a guy like Shattenkirk, for all his faults, at least contributed both on the powerplay and pk. He spent roughly 10-11% of his ice time on the pk while still being a huge contributor in the departments you've mentioned.

I don't put a lot of weight into zone starts and think they have a pretty minimal effect on CF%, xGF%, and GF% based on what I've read. I think he has been generally deployed against weaker competition, but less so this year after Parayko's injury. Him not PKing at all is a negative when comparing him to guys who do.

The question is, will he be significantly worse if given the tougher minutes?

I've noticed when looking at his or ROR's teammate breakdowns on naturalstattrick.com that they always have very good numbers together. I assume that ROR is probably not out there against bottom six competition most of the time. I know that doesn't necessarily mean he will be just as good against tough competition but just something I've noticed.

Edit: Also just to clarify all numbers from my original post were at 5v5

 

[Blueston]

Dunn has averaged over 20 minutes a night since Parayko went out of the lineup. I'm not going to make the argument that he's our best LHD since he isn't driving offense this year like he has in the past, but the whole team has struggled offensively. I would make the argument though that he's a more valuable asset than Scandella or Krug due to age and contract status.

Also, Dunn is perfectly fine defensively. He has some bad plays that stick out, but overall has a slightly positive defensive impact. Even this year he has the lowest xGA/60 in our top 4. Here are the numbers over the last 3 seasons.

18-19

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	49.5	1.98	1.99
Team Avg.	52.7	2.07	2.21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

19-20

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	45.6	2.03	1.89
Team Avg.	49.9	2.16	2.05

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

20-21

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	50.4	2.00	2.57
Team Avg.	52.5	2.15	2.58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Dunn is a good example of how we often misunderstand defense. He doesn't always "defend" particularly well, but he is really good at getting puck out of zone. So we don't allow as many goals with him on ice because we're not pinned in our own zone. Kinda the anti-Mikkola.

 

[Celtic Note]

Any chance Army trades Hoffman and then uses those assets to acquire Hall? It’s not something I am advocating, but I wonder if it’s the type of shake up move he would make. It seems like he has always liked Hall.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

If the Blues want picks, I’d hope they would be savvy and try to trade for picks in next year’s draft.

That’s not an indictment of this year as much as praise for the 2022 draft.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Any chance Army trades Hoffman and then uses those assets to acquire Hall? It’s not something I am advocating, but I wonder if it’s the type of shake up move he would make. It seems like he has always liked Hall.

God I hope he wouldn't do that. If he's really that enamored with Hall, wait until the offseason and chase him then.

If the Blues want picks, I’d hope they would be savvy and try to trade for picks in next year’s draft.

That’s not an indictment of this year as much as praise for the 2022 draft.

Everyone knows about next year's draft. Good luck with that. I'm fine with getting prospects back, especially on defense. We need to restock some cupboards.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

Bruin fan coming in peace..asking price for Terasenko please?
We’d start with a first and DeBrusk. Any interest?

 

[Spektre]

Bruin fan coming in peace..asking price for Terasenko please?
We’d start with a first and DeBrusk. Any interest?

Honestly we can always do hypothetical trades but realistically Tarasenko isn’t getting traded 100%

I’m sure my opinion is unpopular but I’d definitely see what Schwartz can return in a trade. He’s going to want a 6 or 7 year deal for close to 7 million per season. I don’t see it. He’s a hard working player but his skill level just isn’t close to being worth 7 million, especially as he’ll be 30 when his new contract begins.

He’s a fan favorite because of his work ethic but those same fans will turn sour within a few years when his wheels slow down and his production follows suit.

 

[bruins4thecup65]

Honestly we can always do hypothetical trades but realistically Tarasenko isn’t getting traded 100%

I’m sure my opinion is unpopular but I’d definitely see what Schwartz can return in a trade. He’s going to want a 6 or 7 year deal for close to 7 million per season. I don’t see it. He’s a hard working player but his skill level just isn’t close to being worth 7 million, especially as he’ll be 30 when his new contract begins.

He’s a fan favorite because of his work ethic but those same fans will turn sour within a few years when his wheels slow down and his production follows suit.

Any interest in any of our young dmen?

Vaakaanen could be available.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Any interest in any of our young dmen?

Vaakaanen could be available.

We’d definitely be interested in Vaak, but not for Tarasenko. My bet is that we don’t sell unless we lose the next two.

 

[Blueston]

We’d definitely be interested in Vaak, but not for Tarasenko. My bet is that we don’t sell unless we lose the next two.

I think Hoffman is dealt regardless. He just doesn't fit.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I think Hoffman is dealt regardless. He just doesn't fit.

I’d trade him to get a two-way scorer. Maybe Lehkonen.

 

[The Note]

With the Leafs reportedly "all-in" on the best forward they can add at the TDL, I would still be dangling Schwartz in front of them and see if you can get them to part with a 1st+good prospect+some sort of conditional pick.

 

[MissouriMook]

With the Leafs reportedly "all-in" on the best forward they can add at the TDL, I would still be dangling Schwartz in front of them and see if you can get them to part with a 1st+good prospect+some sort of conditional pick.

I don't think Schwartz is going anywhere. If we deal with Toronto, it is likely Hoffman at 50% retained for Mikheyev and their 2021 2nd. That's about the only way they're going to be able to fit a legit scorer under the cap.

 

[The Note]

I don't think Schwartz is going anywhere. If we deal with Toronto, it is likely Hoffman at 50% retained for Mikheyev and their 2021 2nd. That's about the only way they're going to be able to fit a legit scorer under the cap.

I think you're likely right. And honestly, I am undecided on moving Schwartz at all anyway, just saw the report and was tossing it out. Hoffman has to be as good as gone though. If not Toronto then certainly somewhere.

 

[ezcreepin]

The thing that frustrates me is we have drafted pretty well in the later rounds, finding NHL talent all throughout the 3rd to the 6th rounds, but some of these guys with good potential have had a hard time reaching it. Mikkola may or may not reach his ceiling, but even if he hit his floor, he should be a solid 3rd pairing option on the left side. The only problem is he isn't quite there yet, but he's slowly losing time to beat people out for a spot. Walman has had a weird trajectory, but he seems to have found a depth role, others are currently down in the minors who were doing well prior to stoppage. My biggest gripe is with guys like Blais and Sanford, who despite the praise from the coach and gm, just can't figure out consistent point production. Sanford has been gifted so much ice time, but he just wastes those opportunities and half the time doesn't look engaged. Blais is a wrecking ball, touted as a power forward type player, but will either make dumb/bad plays or just plays the body instead of making those small plays to get chances or shots on net. Clearly Blais has talent with a good shot and vision, but to me he seems to just run around. I think both of these guys could be 40 point forwards, I just don't know how or where you put them to make that happen, or if the expectations are just too high for those guys. All I know is that the Blues should probably start drafting boom/bust type guys more often, because sooner or later people are going to be shipped out or begin to decline. Sorry rant over

 

[Reality Czech]

Dunn has averaged over 20 minutes a night since Parayko went out of the lineup. I'm not going to make the argument that he's our best LHD since he isn't driving offense this year like he has in the past, but the whole team has struggled offensively. I would make the argument though that he's a more valuable asset than Scandella or Krug due to age and contract status.

Also, Dunn is perfectly fine defensively. He has some bad plays that stick out, but overall has a slightly positive defensive impact. Even this year he has the lowest xGA/60 in our top 4. Here are the numbers over the last 3 seasons.

18-19

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	49.5	1.98	1.99
Team Avg.	52.7	2.07	2.21

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

19-20

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	45.6	2.03	1.89
Team Avg.	49.9	2.16	2.05

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

20-21

	CA/60	xGA/60	GA/60
Dunn	50.4	2.00	2.57
Team Avg.	52.5	2.15	2.58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Dunn has played a lot better since he was benched earlier this year. I'm actually pretty impressed with his play over that time, but I also think he still needs to be sheltered to some degree. Not trying to criticize him, just think it's a stretch to call him our best LHD. I thought he would be traded for sure, but considering his recent play I don't see any reason why Army would trade him (aside from ED reasons, but that's a different topic).

 

[bruins4thecup65]

We’d definitely be interested in Vaak, but not for Tarasenko. My bet is that we don’t sell unless we lose the next two.

Is Dunn doable? We would obviously add maybe a 2nd?

 

[Blueston]

The thing that frustrates me is we have drafted pretty well in the later rounds, finding NHL talent all throughout the 3rd to the 6th rounds, but some of these guys with good potential have had a hard time reaching it. Mikkola may or may not reach his ceiling, but even if he hit his floor, he should be a solid 3rd pairing option on the left side. The only problem is he isn't quite there yet, but he's slowly losing time to beat people out for a spot. Walman has had a weird trajectory, but he seems to have found a depth role, others are currently down in the minors who were doing well prior to stoppage. My biggest gripe is with guys like Blais and Sanford, who despite the praise from the coach and gm, just can't figure out consistent point production. Sanford has been gifted so much ice time, but he just wastes those opportunities and half the time doesn't look engaged. Blais is a wrecking ball, touted as a power forward type player, but will either make dumb/bad plays or just plays the body instead of making those small plays to get chances or shots on net. Clearly Blais has talent with a good shot and vision, but to me he seems to just run around. I think both of these guys could be 40 point forwards, I just don't know how or where you put them to make that happen, or if the expectations are just too high for those guys. All I know is that the Blues should probably start drafting boom/bust type guys more often, because sooner or later people are going to be shipped out or begin to decline. Sorry rant over

There's a reason those guys were late round picks.