I don't really understand why. He doesn't score. He doesn't hit. He doesn't defend particularly well. He does take faceoffs. And we are paying him how much?
Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part III
- Thread starter EastonBlues22
- Start date
- Status
I agree but he’s at least “okay” as a 3C. If we lose Schenn, Thomas should develop into a 2C fairly quick.
So ROR-Thomas-Bozak-Barbashev down the middle isn’t bad. I’d like to trade Steen and let Maroon walk. Maybe surround Bozak with faster players on the 3rd line. He’s had some success with those types in Toronto.
He's a complimentary player. He would look better if he was playing with better wingers, which he would be if he was in top 6 as anticipated when we signed him. If we deal Schenn he will be nice bridge until Thomas is ready to assume 2C. If we don't, he will likely continue to look overpaid and out of place.
If someone wants Bozak? Sure, whatever. He hasn't performed and moving on would be helpful from a cap perspective. I'm not particularly fussed either way until we've addressed other areas and are looking to move in a new direction.
We have issues that don't seem like they are going to be resolved by moving player like Bozak (or Maroon, Gunnarsson, Bouwmeester, etc). All that seems like shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. It's not a roster talent issue.
We have issues that don't seem like they are going to be resolved by moving player like Bozak (or Maroon, Gunnarsson, Bouwmeester, etc). All that seems like shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. It's not a roster talent issue.
I purposefully didn't include him. Moving Steen could be something that moves us in another direction, that would be a meaningful move for Armstrong.
Majorityof1
Registered User
Two really good quotes here. Team sucks as a whole, so why start laying blame now on individual pieces? Especially when Bozak has been tied with a boat anchor of Maroon. Or is it the other way around? Who is useless? The answer is everyone is playing below expectations. Let's figure out why, and then decide who needs to go. If we get good value, then take it. But don't sell for pennies on the dollar when we might need a 3C sooner rather than later.
stl76
No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
- Jul 2, 2015
- 9,063
- 8,343
Anaheim fans on the main boards looking for a 2C seem open to a Schenn for Fowler trade.
Personally, I really don't want to trade Schenn, but Fowler is a guy I would very seriously consider. He would look fantastic on our top pairing:
Fowler - Pietrangelo
Edmundson - Parayko
YES PLEASE!
Personally, I really don't want to trade Schenn, but Fowler is a guy I would very seriously consider. He would look fantastic on our top pairing:
Fowler - Pietrangelo
Edmundson - Parayko
YES PLEASE!
Majorityof1
Registered User
Interesting. I hate to let Schenn go, but for 6 years of Fowler it is tempting for sure. The down side to Fowler is he does nothing to help our D being "soft" but he does have speed and a good transition game if we want to go that route.
Itsnotatrap
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2013
- 1,294
- 1,600
Walman and Mikkola they could be ready for 3rd pair job next season.
Perhaps, but they're not exactly starring in AHL. Walman especially bc woulda expected much more offense from him.
Itsnotatrap
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2013
- 1,294
- 1,600
Could be right, especially with your guy, but that’s ok. I don’t think we really have a top pair on the left side. Freeing the salary from Jay-Bo and Gunnar will be nice, but getting someone that lets everyone slot where they should be would be even better. Would be worth Schenn, if an extension doesn’t look possible, which I have no idea about.
People get hurt, so Mikkola would almost certainly get NHL time if he keeps this up.
stl76
No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
- Jul 2, 2015
- 9,063
- 8,343
So what? Maybe I misunderstood what you're trying to say, but I don't see what this has to do with acquiring Fowler.
It has unfortunately come to my attention that Fowler has a NTC covering 27 teams...gotta believe the Blues are not on his 4 team trade list.
Itsnotatrap
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2013
- 1,294
- 1,600
Well that settles that one then, I suppose.
On another note, Carolina has been imploding. They are swiftly meeting us as far as playoff probabilities. I’d think that makes that whole Tarasenko thing less likely vs more. I guess it just depends on how they interpret this nosedive though. You could make an argument that the desperation on their side, coupled with what seems like an impulsive owner, might make this more exploitable.
With regards to Bozak, I feel this is what happen..
Buffalo rejected our last trade offers between that time where you are allowed to talk to FAs.
So Army went out and figured Bozak was the best center on FA market so talked to him. Army was thinking this for centers since buffalo rejected all trade offers.
Schenn #1
Bozak #2
Thomas #3
Barbashev/Sundqvist #4
In reality Army wanted this for centers
O'Reilly
Schenn
Thomas
Barbashev/Sundqvist
So we signed Bozak thinking the Buffalo deal wasn't going to happen ( I wasn't against this deal til we got O'Reilly, but I think Buffalo rejected it til the last minute.) Then later in evening, Buffalo said you throw Berglund or whoever in the deal is done. Army got the deal done and now we are in cap issues with a load of talent on the team.
Buffalo rejected our last trade offers between that time where you are allowed to talk to FAs.
So Army went out and figured Bozak was the best center on FA market so talked to him. Army was thinking this for centers since buffalo rejected all trade offers.
Schenn #1
Bozak #2
Thomas #3
Barbashev/Sundqvist #4
In reality Army wanted this for centers
O'Reilly
Schenn
Thomas
Barbashev/Sundqvist
So we signed Bozak thinking the Buffalo deal wasn't going to happen ( I wasn't against this deal til we got O'Reilly, but I think Buffalo rejected it til the last minute.) Then later in evening, Buffalo said you throw Berglund or whoever in the deal is done. Army got the deal done and now we are in cap issues with a load of talent on the team.
Schenn for Fowler? I'd probably do that, but I can't see the Ducks being fans of the term difference. As covered, it's probably moot because he wouldn't waive.
Armstrong builts the roster by spending to the cap and adding depth. Even if we had traded for ROR earlier, we'd likely still have had the cap to go after Bozak.
There was no chance we were coming into this season with a significant amount of cap space.
We don't have any cap issues, and I imagine that Bozak was always going to be a target. We had a lot of interest in him in 2013 before he decided to sign the last minute extension in Toronto, so Armstrong liked him.
Armstrong builts the roster by spending to the cap and adding depth. Even if we had traded for ROR earlier, we'd likely still have had the cap to go after Bozak.
There was no chance we were coming into this season with a significant amount of cap space.
I screwed up on cap issues (I was looking into future). I keep thinking Schwartz & Schenn are UFA the same year, but there is a year difference. I was looking towards the futures saying cap issues but with Schenn & Schwartz being in different years we are alright for sure.
I still think had we gotten O'Reilly, I don't know if Bozak signs here. I think we still have interest in him for sure but he may want to play elsewhere to get more minutes.
Renard
Registered User
On the subject of locker room issues, I remember the opinion of Bob Burnes on the subject.
Bob Burnes was the long time editor of the sports section of the old St. Louis Globe Democrat. When asked about how locker room issues affected play on the field, Burnes pointed to the old Gas House gang of the Cardinals in the 1930s. They were a disunified bunch, some guys having strong dislike for others, even coming to blows. But they put it aside when they took the field.
That was a long time ago, I admit, and a different sport. But if you think your current Blues teammate is a jerk, how can playing to lose a game get even with the guy?
Bob Burnes was the long time editor of the sports section of the old St. Louis Globe Democrat. When asked about how locker room issues affected play on the field, Burnes pointed to the old Gas House gang of the Cardinals in the 1930s. They were a disunified bunch, some guys having strong dislike for others, even coming to blows. But they put it aside when they took the field.
That was a long time ago, I admit, and a different sport. But if you think your current Blues teammate is a jerk, how can playing to lose a game get even with the guy?
Last edited:
Baseball is an incredibly individual sport. Everyone, aside from the catcher and pitcher, can go out there and play solely for themselves and the team can win like that. You can't do that in hockey, so it's a difficult comparison.
Nobody is going out there to lose, I highly doubt anyone is going out there not to actually try to win. If there are significant issues around the team then that filters in by taking players off the same page and it affects preperation. At this level that is going to show. That divide would also affect belief in the sense that players focus on others failings rather than what they should be doing positively for the team. It filters in indirectly.
However, I still don't believe that there is this massive problem in the room. Every single room in the League has a split in it, and players in different "camps". It is natural and doesn't have to be a negative. This is getting highlighted because we're losing, but we're also not getting any specifics or talk of Armstrong looking to move a specific player to deal with it? It all seems like clutching at straws and getting something to write about.
We have to actively fight our natural instincts sometimes. Take when we were all seeing the team play better in front of Elliott than they did in front of Allen. It wasn't that the players dislike Allen, it wasn't that the coaches were telling them to play different... it was a natural reaction. Just like how almost every team will play a little more safe when they have a multi-goal lead, which leads to the other team having more possession, etc.
I see our current problem as lacking a leader than can instill belief into the group and we're weak to adversity. When heads drop, it's an uphill battle even when you're trying. Players trying to do too much, with good intentions, meaning playing as a group of individuals. Add in poor coaching...
But that is a boring problem to write about and doesn't have an easy solution for a writer to sell to their reader.
Itsnotatrap
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2013
- 1,294
- 1,600
I think the Too Many Men penalties are a good case illustration of what's wrong with this team. That's 100% a coaching issue. Players should not be taking penalties for Too Many Men. Its a symptom of not being on the same page, but the coach controls it. A coach should ensure that the basic understanding of WHEN they change and HOW they chance is clear to everyone.
They're not taking those penalties because someone is a "LOCKER ROOM CANCER". They're doing it because they have poor communication and are lax about the details. They are similarly lax about the details of the forward's defensive zone assignments (though that is getting better). There is an overall lack of attention to detail on this team. Its permeated almost every part of the game. I think the man to man defense is probably the system where deficiencies in communication are most glaringly exposed. I also think player leaders have a role in holding the team to account for attention to details.
I do think things are trending the right direction since Yeo was fired, but not dramatically so. I don't think its in this team's best interest to prolong the time with Berube as the interim coach.
They're not taking those penalties because someone is a "LOCKER ROOM CANCER". They're doing it because they have poor communication and are lax about the details. They are similarly lax about the details of the forward's defensive zone assignments (though that is getting better). There is an overall lack of attention to detail on this team. Its permeated almost every part of the game. I think the man to man defense is probably the system where deficiencies in communication are most glaringly exposed. I also think player leaders have a role in holding the team to account for attention to details.
I do think things are trending the right direction since Yeo was fired, but not dramatically so. I don't think its in this team's best interest to prolong the time with Berube as the interim coach.
I am going to go with the Foil hat - hiding in my basement to avoid the inlaws thought here.
I think we are trying to find ways to lose games - number of penalties - but Too Many Men are just highlighting this. Gives the team the ability to lose while playing hard. Also can change the momentum.
There is no way that DA looks at where we are at and would risk losing this years draft pick in the 11 - 14 range. And as Stillman is a hockey guy, I am sure and an owner he would get this. Our issues is elite player - we really only have one.
We need another and the only way to do that is via draft.... We just are not a hot bed for UFAs, unless you have lived here and like the community.
- Status
