Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part III

[LetsGoBooze]

I don’t want to see Tarasenko traded but I’m fairly certain he will be. The thing that sucks is it took 10 years and multiple contracts to get rid of Berglund. Bouwmeester enjoys 1st pairing minutes despite playing so bad even the most inexperienced fan seees his struggles. Bortuzzo gets a 3 year extension for what? I get Bortuzzo is cheap and low risk but he’s also hurt every year. Steen’s still here with a NTC. The team tanks one year so let’s trade our best players and stuff. Edmundson will get resigned, and shows flashes of a solid D but he shouldn’t be playing top pairing minutes. He could be as soon as next year.

Pietrangelo is probably gone too along with Schenn.

How do the Blues trade Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, and Schenn and not fully embrace a rebuild?

Next year could be:

Edmundson Parayko
Dunn Bortuzzo
Mikkola Schmaltz

??

And the defense is giving up tons of chances this year??


If Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, and Schenn are traded I want to see Allen gone at all costs. If he’s untradable then buy him out. Whatever it takes to get rid of him. No way he should survive this much turnover.

This is why we need a new #1 LD. If we can bump Eddy to the 2nd pairing he will thrive.

LD-Pie
Eddy-Parayko

With the right piece we could have a top10 Defense easily. If we make a shakeup trade i want a LD as a centerpiece coming back.

 

[Majorityof1]

Schenn has been hot garbage this year...if he can recoup a 1st rounder+, I'd hope Army would consider it.

How is Schenn a problem? He is one of our best players night in and night out. Granted that isn't saying much with this team at times. Still, it is odd to target him. He's 2nd (T) on the team in points. He's on pace for 59 points, which is about where you should expect him on any given season. At even-strength among our forwards, hes 3rd on shots/Corsi attempts. 2nd in High Danger Chances, 3rd on hits, 2nd on takeaways, 3rd on blocked shots.

His defensive on-ice stats aren't great, but the team as a whole is a mess. Looking at his on-ice percentages he is doing ok relative to his teammates. His GF% is 6th among forwards, but 3 of those in front have missed 10 or more games (Sanford, Fabbri, Schwartz). His CF% is is a hair under 50%, but his High Danger Chances For % is 2nd only to Schwartz. Basically he is giving up chances against, but they are not high danger. He's giving up relatively more goals because the on-ice save percentage is 2nd to last among forwards. Normally that would be a strike against the player, but the low HD chances coupled with our goalies penchant for letting in bad goals makes me wonder.

Over all, Schenn could be better defensively, absolutely. But individually, he is one of our better players. With how much of a dumpster fire this team is this year, I don't see how you can single
Schenn out to move. My eye-test agrees with the stats, by the way. He's been good to adequate. Not great, but not bad and definitely not hot garbage. What am I missing?

 

[bleedblue1223]

How is Schenn a problem? He is one of our best players night in and night out. Granted that isn't saying much with this team at times. Still, it is odd to target him. He's 2nd (T) on the team in points. He's on pace for 59 points, which is about where you should expect him on any given season. At even-strength among our forwards, hes 3rd on shots/Corsi attempts. 2nd in High Danger Chances, 3rd on hits, 2nd on takeaways, 3rd on blocked shots.

His defensive on-ice stats aren't great, but the team as a whole is a mess. Looking at his on-ice percentages he is doing ok relative to his teammates. His GF% is 6th among forwards, but 3 of those in front have missed 10 or more games (Sanford, Fabbri, Schwartz). His CF% is is a hair under 50%, but his High Danger Chances For % is 2nd only to Schwartz. Basically he is giving up chances against, but they are not high danger. He's giving up relatively more goals because the on-ice save percentage is 2nd to last among forwards. Normally that would be a strike against the player, but the low HD chances coupled with our goalies penchant for letting in bad goals makes me wonder.

Over all, Schenn could be better defensively, absolutely. But individually, he is one of our better players. With how much of a dumpster fire this team is this year, I don't see how you can single
Schenn out to move. My eye-test agrees with the stats, by the way. He's been good to adequate. Not great, but not bad and definitely not hot garbage. What am I missing?

Yeah, Schenn has been exactly who he is this season, and last season he over-performed a bit. He's one of the players that overall I have no problem with and want him to stay.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The team has looked so out of sorts at its worst moments that I don't really know how you can pick out individual players to blame. They've looked disorganized. I remember early in the season feeling like they looked like a poorly coached team, the guys just didn't seem to know what they were supposed to be doing.

They look a lot better than that now, but I still don't feel confident in blaming specific players for those developments earlier in the year. I'd like think stronger team leaders could compensate for a coach's weaknesses, but the combination of what the Blues have (plus Yeo) certainly didn't work that way. So then, I wonder if different team leadership (in addition to a new coach) would be better. Then I read the bizarre statements JR is making about the team, and I hope Armstrong is just sitting on his hands rather than forcing a trade of Pietro / Tarasenko.

Please, just get us a new coach and a starting goalie, and then let the dust settle a bit. Maybe there are a couple guys that need to move after that, but I don't know how you'd be able to tell who that is now.

 

[Stealth JD]

How is Schenn a problem? He is one of our best players night in and night out. Granted that isn't saying much with this team at times. Still, it is odd to target him. He's 2nd (T) on the team in points. He's on pace for 59 points, which is about where you should expect him on any given season. At even-strength among our forwards, hes 3rd on shots/Corsi attempts. 2nd in High Danger Chances, 3rd on hits, 2nd on takeaways, 3rd on blocked shots.

His defensive on-ice stats aren't great, but the team as a whole is a mess. Looking at his on-ice percentages he is doing ok relative to his teammates. His GF% is 6th among forwards, but 3 of those in front have missed 10 or more games (Sanford, Fabbri, Schwartz). His CF% is is a hair under 50%, but his High Danger Chances For % is 2nd only to Schwartz. Basically he is giving up chances against, but they are not high danger. He's giving up relatively more goals because the on-ice save percentage is 2nd to last among forwards. Normally that would be a strike against the player, but the low HD chances coupled with our goalies penchant for letting in bad goals makes me wonder.

Over all, Schenn could be better defensively, absolutely. But individually, he is one of our better players. With how much of a dumpster fire this team is this year, I don't see how you can single
Schenn out to move. My eye-test agrees with the stats, by the way. He's been good to adequate. Not great, but not bad and definitely not hot garbage. What am I missing?

I think that post was made after he muffed another scoring chance last night. He's had many missed opportunities this year, and has generally seemed 'off'...kind of in a way that the rest of the team has. He's not a particular target of ire, but if we're selling, he's certainly a top-candidate to go if he can't be locked up. And even if he can be locked-up, I'm not sure taking the draft-pick and ELC isn't the way to go, with the current payroll structure being what it is...and the team looking like they may be down for a while with the state of things around the Central Division.

 

[cardinalnation]

To me Schenn is a poor man's David Perrin. He can be very disruptive to the opposition when he is going full throttle. It just comes in spurts. Both can be in your face and physical when they feel like it. Perron has a lot better moves and hands though. He also takes more stupid penalties though. There is some roster overlap here I think.

Now we had heard from a lot of Flyers fans directly after the trade that Schenn was a bit of a locker room problem. I have also heard them talk about it on local sports radio. Now I don't know this to be fact but where there's a lot of smoke there is usually fire. The reason you don't see him do many interviews is because I believe the guy is a pretty arrogant young man. Which is fine if you can back it up and he does sometimes. just my opinion but whereas David Perron is very well-liked in St Louis I think Brayden Schenn is just the opposite. I also have to wonder what happened to this great shot he supposedly had? The guy has hands like Sylvester Stallone in that first Rocky movie. Like has already been brought up he has missed an open net a surprising amount of times this year. Despite all this the guy still has value in a trade. just because you gave up a lot for a guy is no reason to make further bad decisions going down the line. I would be looking to shop him. He might be our best trade chip all other things considered.

 

[BlueDream]

To me Schenn is a poor man's David Perrin. He can be very disruptive to the opposition when he is going full throttle. It just comes in spurts. Both can be in your face and physical when they feel like it. Perron has a lot better moves and hands though. He also takes more stupid penalties though. There is some roster overlap here I think.

Now we had heard from a lot of Flyers fans directly after the trade that Schenn was a bit of a locker room problem. I have also heard them talk about it on local sports radio. Now I don't know this to be fact but where there's a lot of smoke there is usually fire. The reason you don't see him do many interviews is because I believe the guy is a pretty arrogant young man. Which is fine if you can back it up and he does sometimes. just my opinion but whereas David Perron is very well-liked in St Louis I think Brayden Schenn is just the opposite. I also have to wonder what happened to this great shot he supposedly had? The guy has hands like Sylvester Stallone in that first Rocky movie. Like has already been brought up he has missed an open net a surprising amount of times this year. Despite all this the guy still has value in a trade. just because you gave up a lot for a guy is no reason to make further bad decisions going down the line. I would be looking to shop him. He might be our best trade chip all other things considered.

Never once heard the locker room problem talk with him in Philly. His character has always been one of his strongest traits. And he was a popular teammate there.

Honestly though who cares about facts. Let’s just label every single member of our team a locker room cancer. Because that’s where every discussion here tends to end up. Shit is getting absolutely ridiculous.

 

[cardinalnation]

Let me add I do think he has picked it up a lot the last 5 games or so. He's been one of our better players. Maybe he is hearing the foot steps. His effort level has gone up and that is a good thing even if he is not converting. It shows he is coachable. He might be gripping the stick too tight like a lot of the team. Change of scenery might do him good. A lot of teams will be interested I am sure.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Blah blah blah.

 

[Majorityof1]

Never once heard the locker room problem talk with him in Philly. His character has always been one of his strongest traits. And he was a popular teammate there.

Honestly though who cares about facts. Let’s just label every single member of our team a locker room cancer. Because that’s where every discussion here tends to end up. **** is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Like x 1,000. I never heard a damn thing about him being a cancer and I have a good friend who is a die-hard Flyers fan. I skimmed the Flyers board as well. looked through "Is Schenn a core piece?" which started a few months before they traded him and their trade thread on him. Didn't see any mention of him being a locker room issue. Not everyone was completely complimentary, but it all had to do with on-ice issues. I didn't look through every post, because its not worth it for what is so obviously BS. I challenge @cardinalnation with coming up with some concrete post or news story where he heard this. Because its not the first time he has spouted this false narrative.

 

[cardinalnation]

Who called him a cancer? Not what I said at all. In fact I went out of my way to point out that I wasn't saying it was a fact. Then I told you exactly where I heard that. In fact if I hadn't heard it on talk radio I would not have given it a second thought. Thing is I had it before from Flyers fans. HF boards is not the only place I go for hockey so I honestly don't remember where it was but after the trade i read some negative comments about the guy. I just figured it was Flyers fans trying to justify taking on Lehtera and a pick for him. I do not know the guy from Adam. Also I don't believe anyone has suggested that any one person is the issue here. There has been talk of a locker room rift here for long before Brayden Shenn was even brought in. Remember when it was Oshie that was the problem? Or Brian Elliott, or Hitch? Then it was Steve Ott and then Mike Yeo. It's Jake Allen. See a pattern here? I want to be clear I am not saying the singlur problem is Brayden Schenn or any other player for that matter. Never did. The point is there is an obvious problem here and something really needs to be done. I believe it will after the holiday. If they feel like they are already out of the playoff hunt it's even more reason to get what you can for these assets. Unless you intend on going into next season with the same players. I just think B Schenn along with Tyler Bozak are the most likely to have value.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Who called him a cancer? Not what I said at all. In fact I went out of my way to point out that I wasn't saying it was a fact. Then I told you exactly where I heard that. In fact if I hadn't heard it on talk radio I would not have given it a second thought. Thing is I had it before from Flyers fans. HF boards is not the only place I go for hockey so I honestly don't remember where it was but after the trade i read some negative comments about the guy. I just figured it was Flyers fans trying to justify taking on Lehtera and a pick for him. I do not know the guy from Adam. Also I don't believe anyone has suggested that any one person is the issue here. There has been talk of a locker room rift here for long before Brayden Shenn was even brought in. Remember when it was Oshie that was the problem? Or Brian Elliott, or Hitch? Then it was Steve Ott and then Mike Yeo. It's Jake Allen. See a pattern here? I want to be clear I am not saying the singlur problem is Brayden Schenn or any other player for that matter. Never did. The point is there is an obvious problem here and something really needs to be done. I believe it will after the holiday. If they feel like they are already out of the playoff hunt it's even more reason to get what you can for these assets. Unless you intend on going into next season with the same players. I just think B Schenn along with Tyler Bozak are the most likely to have value.

I actually don’t see a pattern there. You just listed off a bunch of players and coaches that have very little relevance to one another. The only commonality between everyone you said is that they all have been a part of the Blues organization.

 

[cardinalnation]

I actually don’t see a pattern there. You just listed off a bunch of players and coaches that have very little relevance to one another. The only commonality between everyone you said is that they all have been a part of the Blues organization.

Well they were all blamed to one degree or another for the teams struggles. Oshie was a prima dona (total BS to me but it was said). Ells was part of a goalie tandem and clearly wasn't happy with it. He had a meltdown after being pulled and his detractors pounced. Hitch was blamed constantly. Yeo the same. It is important to remember it is not just missing the playoffs last year. This started about this time two years ago. If you go by calendar year the Blues have to be very close to the bottom in the last 2 years. I think most of us felt like the talent level here is much much higher than that. Some here think this entire thing is because of Jake Allen's poor play, I don't agree. We are now on our third coach and things are getting worse not better. The point is it is never just one guy. Just my opinion but I thought that was the reason Perron and Maroon where brought in this year. Both are well-liked and well-respected. I don't have the answers and worse of all it doesn't appear the brass does either.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Maybe the whole team is all #lockerroomcancer and we’re in an “I am Spartacus” situation.

Better yet, maybe WE are the #lockerroomcancer?

I’ve heard that the dog is #lockerroomcancer somewhere, too.

 

[Stealth JD]

the lockerroom isn't the issue. execution of a competent game-plan is the issue. winning cures all ails, and personalities are irrelevant on the ice. there's nothing more overblown than "lockerroom issues", unless you've got guys who are on the verge of coming to blows.

 

[cardinalnation]

"Verge of coming to blows". That is just Classic!

 

[Evocable Manager]

If Armstrong even thinks of trading Tarasenko he should be sentenced to 10 years in Siberia.

 

[Celtic Note]

I really think moving one of our middle six 30/30+ ages forwards would be in our best interest. Steen or Bozak would be ideal. If we can remove the salary of one of their contracts or at least some of it along with Bo and Gunner gone, then you have $8M in our D gone, what’re we can deduct from a Steen/Bozak trade and the probable $3M in cap growth projected. That is $11M+ to make some moves with some combination of trades, signings and raises.

So much potential in a number like that.

If we can dump them earlier in season and get a better draft position, while getting a kid more playing time, potentially even better. Assuming we make sound moves in the offseason, this year could turn into a blip and a high end asset.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Brendan Shanahan had [still has] a great reputation of being a great guy in the locker room. Tore the hell out of the 1994 and 1995 Blues teams with his off-ice antics, shit all over the Whalers organization when he got traded there and the team bent over backwards and sideways trying to make him happy, but he's busted his ass for years polishing his image to the fans to make himself look great. A lot of people still buy it to this very day.

Image and reality aren't always the same. What you hear from 2nd-hand sources alleging stuff and what you want to believe don't always line up with the truth. My impression is that Schenn isn't an issue in the locker room right now, just like Steen isn't nearly the issue in the locker room people keep claiming he is. But I do think there's a cultural problem with the organization and it's not confined to the locker room.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

My impression is that Schenn isn't an issue in the locker room right now, just like Steen isn't nearly the issue in the locker room people keep claiming he is. But I do think there's a cultural problem with the organization and it's not confined to the locker room.

I tend to agree on both of these. I have no idea what is going on in there, but Steen is the most convenient one to pin it on, so I suspect that plays into this.

 

[Mike Liut]

I really think moving one of our middle six 30/30+ ages forwards would be in our best interest. Steen or Bozak would be ideal. If we can remove the salary of one of their contracts or at least some of it along with Bo and Gunner gone, then you have $8M in our D gone, what’re we can deduct from a Steen/Bozak trade and the probable $3M in cap growth projected. That is $11M+ to make some moves with some combination of trades, signings and raises.

So much potential in a number like that.

If we can dump them earlier in season and get a better draft position, while getting a kid more playing time, potentially even better. Assuming we make sound moves in the offseason, this year could turn into a blip and a high end asset.

Id move Steen and/or Bozak in a second. But who the hell would want them? They are anchors

 

[cardinalnation]

Remember Bozek cost them no assets. Anything you get is a net gain. Steen i would bet has plenty if teams that would take him but he probably has negative trade value due to that stupid contract. Like Allen he would have to be part of of a package deal.

 

[simon IC]

This has probably been mentioned before, but I thought Pittsburgh was in need of a 3rd C. Could they be interested in Bozak? What would you ask? Would we have to retain? Another thing nobody has mentioned about Bozak (and Perron), is that they both have limited NTC's in the 1st 2 years of their contracts. Pittsburgh sounds like a place Bozak would be willing to waive for.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Well they were all blamed to one degree or another for the teams struggles. Oshie was a prima dona (total BS to me but it was said). Ells was part of a goalie tandem and clearly wasn't happy with it. He had a meltdown after being pulled and his detractors pounced. Hitch was blamed constantly. Yeo the same. It is important to remember it is not just missing the playoffs last year. This started about this time two years ago. If you go by calendar year the Blues have to be very close to the bottom in the last 2 years. I think most of us felt like the talent level here is much much higher than that. Some here think this entire thing is because of Jake Allen's poor play, I don't agree. We are now on our third coach and things are getting worse not better. The point is it is never just one guy. Just my opinion but I thought that was the reason Perron and Maroon where brought in this year. Both are well-liked and well-respected. I don't have the answers and worse of all it doesn't appear the brass does either.

Well if that's the pattern you want to point out, then I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.

During the time since the Oshie trade, the Blues have lost much more than the players you've mentioned. Just to name a few, the Blues have lost Backes, Brouwer, Shattenkirk, Jaskin, Upshall, Brodziak, Thompson, Sobotka, Berglund, along with coaches like Brad Shaw and Kirk Muller. So if your point is that the Blues are bad now because of players or coaches they've lost, then I don't know why you wouldn't have included them. If your point is that the Blues would be in a better spot now if those players had stayed, then that becomes an impossible idea to argue for because of all the moves made afterwards. I don't know what you are trying to advocate here.

Also, Elliott was traded because he wanted to be a starter because it would have been his last chance for a starter's salary. He was a year away from UFA and wanted to maximize his contract, something he couldn't do if he was splitting starts between Allen or whomever else. He was never viewed as an issue by the fanbase at large, especially given that he was the starter that led the Blues the farthest they've ever been in the playoffs for well over 25 years. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that people jumped on his throat for being pulled one game, unless you are extrapolating that those you would find in the asylum somehow constitutes all fans.

 

[BlueDream]

This has probably been mentioned before, but I thought Pittsburgh was in need of a 3rd C. Could they be interested in Bozak? What would you ask? Would we have to retain? Another thing nobody has mentioned about Bozak (and Perron), is that they both have limited NTC's in the 1st 2 years of their contracts. Pittsburgh sounds like a place Bozak would be willing to waive for.

I think Bozak is kept now that Schenn might not be sticking around.