Blues Trade Proposals 2018-2019 - Part III

[cardinalnation]

The too many men penalties are really on just about everybody. It's been the young guys Thomas, Sunny and Sanford. That is on the coach too in my opinion. But it has also been Steen and Perron and they should know better. Steen is an Alternate so that is just a bad example set. I wonder how much his concussion is affect his on ice decision making? More than once he has looked in between coming off and staying on the ice. That messes with timing. To be fair the Blues could have a lot more TMOI penalties than they do. They have got away with it a bunch of times. To me the stupid penalties, lack of communication between players and unforced offsides are all a symptom of this team just not communicating. That could be were a lot of the so called "locker room issue" talk comes from. These guys are just not playing with it FOR one another. When Steen got bashed by Johnson just after returning from a concussion and nobody went all Stu Grimson on the Avalanche that spoke volumes to me. I would almost wonder if Sanford was on the ice when that happened? Just speculating if course but it would make sense Visa vie Robert Bortuzzo who was out I believe. Before anyone gets bent out of shape I am stating I don't know that for a fact but it would make sense. From what I saw that wasn't a fight as much as a vet just dropping his gloves and pounding on the kid who wanted none of it.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The too many men penalties are really on just about everybody. It's been the young guys Thomas, Sunny and Sanford. That is on the coach too in my opinion. But it has also been Steen and Perron and they should know better. Steen is an Alternate so that is just a bad example set. I wonder how much his concussion is affect his on ice decision making? More than once he has looked in between coming off and staying on the ice. That messes with timing. To be fair the Blues could have a lot more TMOI penalties than they do. They have got away with it a bunch of times. To me the stupid penalties, lack of communication between players and unforced offsides are all a symptom of this team just not communicating. That could be were a lot of the so called "locker room issue" talk comes from. These guys are just not playing with it FOR one another. When Steen got bashed by Johnson just after returning from a concussion and nobody went all Stu Grimson on the Avalanche that spoke volumes to me. I would almost wonder if Sanford was on the ice when that happened? Just speculating if course but it would make sense Visa vie Robert Bortuzzo who was out I believe. Before anyone gets bent out of shape I am stating I don't know that for a fact but it would make sense. From what I saw that wasn't a fight as much as a vet just dropping his gloves and pounding on the kid who wanted none of it.

Your posts are like a stream of consciousness. I don't know what you are saying.

Show me a well coached team, and I'll show you a team that doesn't take Too Many Men penalties.

 

[cardinalnation]

Your posts are like a stream of consciousness. I don't know what you are saying.

Show me a well coached team, and I'll show you a team that doesn't take Too Many Men penalties.

You think it is on the coach. I think there is more to it than that considering the other mistakes we are seeing. Passing to vacant spots, off sides and just awareness of where teammates are. You know a coach calls for lines but the players themselves have to be ready to go when they are supposed to, and get off the ice quickly when they are supposed to do that. Now some of it is on the coach for sure but these players are professionals and should be able to change up properly.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You think it is on the coach. I think there is more to it than that considering the other mistakes we are seeing. Passing to vacant spots, off sides and just awareness of where teammates are. You know a coach calls for lines but the players themselves have to be ready to go when they are supposed to, and get off the ice quickly when they are supposed to do that. Now some of it is on the coach for sure but these players are professionals and should be able to change up properly.

You're providing more example of poor coaching. The players aren't blameless, but good coaches know how to shape the behavior on the ice so that those issues don't happen. It does take some time to change bad habits, which is why I think giving Berube a while is reasonable. But I think we've seen enough to know that he's not the guy that should be the next permanent choice. And if you've made that determination, its better for the future of the team to get a new coach sooner than later. He's going to need time to address the problems, and you will want his input about personnel decisions.

 

[cardinalnation]

I agree it is better to have your next coach in place as soon as possible. What if the guy you really are hoping for wants to take some time off away from the game?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

It has unfortunately come to my attention that Fowler has a NTC covering 27 teams...gotta believe the Blues are not on his 4 team trade list.

Nitpick: 3 team trade list. 27 other teams + Anaheim leaves 3 teams he could be traded to.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Walman and Mikkola they could be ready for 3rd pair job next season.

Walman's defensive game needs to take a stride forward. Mikkola is probably adequate enough, but that still isn't a ringing endorsement. I'll tell you more when I seen them in February and March, though.

There was no chance we were coming into this season with a significant amount of cap space.

That would kind of imply that yes, we do have cap issues. As things stand right now, we don't have issues in future years [yet]. And right now, you would think that for the first time in about 4 years, we should have cap space to work with. [Especially since I don't see ownership handing over the checkbook and saying, "write whatever you need."] But to the extent ownership does decide to spend more again, you can damn well bet Armstrong will go spend it the first chance he gets - and given this incessant need to "shake up the core" I can see him deal someone for an even higher-paid player and suck out some of that cap space.

So while we don't have future cap issues at the moment, I have faith that this non-problem will be un-corrected soon enough.

 

[Spektre]

Nitpick: 3 team trade list. 27 other teams + Anaheim leaves 3 teams he could be traded to.

Anaheim fans have said the 4 team trade list is 4 teams he would submit he can’t be traded to. That leaves 27 teams he could be traded to.

 

[stl76]

Nitpick: 3 team trade list. 27 other teams + Anaheim leaves 3 teams he could be traded to.

You are 100% correct.

Except I believe it is a 4 team trade list...so it would be a 26 team no-trade list then.

Anaheim fans have said the 4 team trade list is 4 teams he would submit he can’t be traded to. That leaves 27 teams he could be traded to.

Thought it was the other way around, are you sure it’s a 4 team no-trade list? Seems like a really small amount of control for the player. Doesn’t really make sense to only be able to veto 4 teams...

 

[mw2noobbuster]

I wonder if a fowler and comtois for schenn + would be something they'd consider.

Fowler would be amazing on the left side. Excellent skater and is a great player in transition. Comtois is gonna be a gamer for a long time if he continues to develop. If we can get a trade for those two I'd take it.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

If Schenn doesn’t want to re-sign here, I’d definitely do a deal for Fowler. Our top 4 would be as good as Nashville’s imo.

Schenn+Gunnarsson for Fowler+prospect

Schwartz-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Steen-Thomas-Perron
Fabbri-Bozak-Kyrou
Maroon-Barbashev-Sundqvist

Fowler-Pietrangelo
Edmundson-Parayko
Bouwmeester-Bortuzzo
Schmaltz

I’d send Dunn down until he re-gains confidence, or there’s an injury. He’s been dreadful this year.

 

[BleedBlue14]

If Schenn doesn’t want to re-sign here, I’d definitely do a deal for Fowler. Our top 4 would be as good as Nashville’s imo.

Schenn+Gunnarsson for Fowler+prospect

Schwartz-O’Reilly-Tarasenko
Steen-Thomas-Perron
Fabbri-Bozak-Kyrou
Maroon-Barbashev-Sundqvist

Fowler-Pietrangelo
Edmundson-Parayko
Bouwmeester-Bortuzzo
Schmaltz

I’d send Dunn down until he re-gains confidence, or there’s an injury. He’s been dreadful this year.

Why does Anaheim make that deal for one year of Schenn?

 

[Blueston]

Why does Anaheim make that deal for one year of Schenn?

I don't understand this "1 year of Schenn" or "1 year of Petro" narrative. If guy is in walk year that is 1 year. They aren't. They have another year. It's 2 runs at the Cup, which is what matters.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I don't understand this "1 year of Schenn" or "1 year of Petro" narrative. If guy is in walk year that is 1 year. They aren't. They have another year. It's 2 runs at the Cup, which is what matters.

Well I mean one extra year of Schenn. Generally I don't agree with the narrative. But the thing is you are trading for a top 4 defenseman who is signed through 25-26 and the main piece they are getting back is Schenn who is signed through next year. I'm not saying it's a rental price on Schenn but the guy you are trying to acquire in this narrative is signed long term. It just doesn't make sense for Anaheim unless they are trying to part ways with Fowler which I just don't see why they would. Look I love watching Brayden Schenn play but he is an offensive 2C, which don't get me wrong has it's value. Generally top 4 d men with term just aren't traded unless the team is really wanting to part ways with the player or is blown away with the offer.

 

[Blueston]

Well I mean one extra year of Schenn. Generally I don't agree with the narrative. But the thing is you are trading for a top 4 defenseman who is signed through 25-26 and the main piece they are getting back is Schenn who is signed through next year. I'm not saying it's a rental price on Schenn but the guy you are trying to acquire in this narrative is signed long term. It just doesn't make sense for Anaheim unless they are trying to part ways with Fowler which I just don't see why they would. Look I love watching Brayden Schenn play but he is an offensive 2C, which don't get me wrong has it's value. Generally top 4 d men with term just aren't traded unless the team is really wanting to part ways with the player or is blown away with the offer.

I don't disagree that Fowler (especially signed long-term) may have more value to a mediocre Ducks team. But there is a notion on here- and didn't mean to pin this on you- that we will get rental prices for Petro or Schenn and I don't buy it.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I don't disagree that Fowler (especially signed long-term) may have more value to a mediocre Ducks team. But there is a notion on here- and didn't mean to pin this on you- that we will get rental prices for Petro or Schenn and I don't buy it.

No worries completely understood. It’s the same thing as the whole age debate that tends to go on in Parayko Nylander threads. Especially when Nylander has already inked a not so friendly team deal. People get under the notion that there are no extenuating circumstances. And instead everything is black and white, same situation with the way a lot of people portray advanced stats.

I think if Fowler were a potential trade target Tarasenko is the piece that would make it happen with adds from the Ducks. Unless of course there is a situation that we don’t know about with Fowler and the front office.

 

[cardinalnation]

I am not trading Petro at all. Schenn I think you could get a decent return on but not Cam Fowler. I think he is an Alternate there and anchors their defense. Is his contract up, I don't think so? I am just trying to figure out why they would even consider moving him. It does seem to me that Steen is their type of player though. Damn that contract.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I am not trading Petro at all. Schenn I think you could get a decent return on but not Cam Fowler. I think he is an Alternate there and anchors their defense. Is his contract up, I don't think so? I am just trying to figure out why they would even consider moving him. It does seem to me that Steen is their type of player though. Damn that contract.

If Steens contract ended this year I see no reason why a contender like Boston wouldn’t pony up the type of return that was given for Stastny. 1st, conditional 3rd and a prospect like Lauzon. However, with his term it would be tough to convince a team his impact would be worth parting with more than a second for, with the NMC that list greatly shortens of bidders.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Why does Anaheim make that deal for one year of Schenn?

He’d likely re-sign there. Most players LOVE living in Southern California.

 

[BleedBlue14]

He’d likely re-sign there. Most players LOVE living in Southern California.

If GMd lived off of maybes a lot would be unemployed